Why not cap crowds every day?

[All Aboard]

waiting 50 minutes for Peter Pan is nuts.

Again, nuts to YOU. But not nuts to the millions of people who go to and enjoy Disneyland. What you are doing in this post is telling everyone that they are crazy to wait to see Fantasmic, crazy to wait 50 minutes to ride Peter Pan and crazy to want to even go to Disneyland. You've trolled on in and successfully gotten responses. Congratulations. But, on the off chance you are serious, I can't believe for one second that you cannot see the difference between a theme park and a stadium. A stadium has an absolutely fixed capacity. Limited (as you have pointed out yourself) by the number of seats. The idea is to go to the game and watch. If there isn't a place for you, you cannot do that. It absolutely cannot accomodate any more.

At a theme park, you don't have to be in one designated place to see what's going on. You roam around, you see different things. Theme parks do have a maximum (and it's enforced), but you simply disagree with the size of that maximum.

You're whole argument is akin to someone going on an NFL website and saying, "What's up with these ridiculously huge stadiums? It was so loud, there were so many people lining up at the concession stands, so many people in line for the toilets. And then when the game was over, sheesh, it was a nightmare trying to get out of the place. I'm never going back to an NFL game until they build stadiums only large enough to accomodate 10,000 people. And, they better make the seats twice as wide as they are now and give me about 3 more feet of legroom in front. Then, they need to force 1/4 of the people to leave after the 1st quarter, another 1/4 to leave at halftime and so one. That would alleviate the big rush to get out at the end. And, they should raise the price to $2,000 a ticket. This is my sane plan that would correct all that's wrong with professional sports."

 

[disneychrista]

I agree that people staking out spots 2 hours before a parade is NUTS, as is people staking out spots for Fantasmic at 3 in the afternoon for a 9:00 Fantasmic. BUT this is caused by the guests not Disneyland. The GUESTS are choosing to do this. I have never choosen to wait more then 30 - 45 minutes for the Parade. I also never wait more then an hour for Fantasmic.

As I have said before its all how YOU go into the experience. If you go expecting to walk on to all attraction with no waits. The parades to show with no one waiting for them. Then yes you will be disapointed. And maybe just maybe Disneyland is not for you. I am sure you will find many other that share your view. I also am sure you won't find many of them on here. Since obviously we all go do Disneyland, and ENJOY the experience.

I am going on July 17th. I expect the crowds to reach max by Noon. I will get there early to experience things while the crowds are low. When the lines get to be too long for my enjoyment, I will just enjoy BEING THERE. I refuse to let the crowds get the better of me or ruin my experience.

 

[chibichibirei]

You're whole argument is akin to someone going on an NFL website and saying, "What's up with these ridiculously huge stadiums? It was so loud, there were so many people lining up at the concession stands, so many people in line for the toilets. And then when the game was over, sheesh, it was a nightmare trying to get out of the place. I'm never going back to an NFL game until they build stadiums only large enough to accomodate 10,000 people. And, they better make the seats twice as wide as they are now and give me about 3 more feet of legroom in front. Then, they need to force 1/4 of the people to leave after the 1st quarter, another 1/4 to leave at halftime and so one. That would alleviate the big rush to get out at the end. And, they should raise the price to $2,000 a ticket. This is my sane plan that would correct all that's wrong with professional sports."

I completly agree with you!

 

[CalGal]

You must be an extremely cooperative person. When I was there, I literally couldn't walk down any of the paths leading to the rides, the parades were a rumor because my toddler wasn't interested in staking out a place 2 hours ahead of time, and I'm sorry but waiting 50 minutes for Peter Pan is nuts. All of this could be solved by capping attendance, raising admission prices, and dumping the AP. No one just wakes up one day and says, "I think I'll wander on over to the Super Bowl game today. They'll squeeze me in."

This is just getting silly now. Clearly, Disneyland is not the Super Bowl; the target audience is quite different, it's a once a year event, etc. Although I'm curious, how long are the lines for hotdogs or the ladie's room at the SuperBowl? I'm delighted that tmartin's son found the magic of DL; sadly tmartin did not.

I've been to DL dozens of times, and ridden PP every trip once or more. Never have I waited 50 minutes for PP because I've learned to go early for these low flow rate rides. The purpose of these boards is to help people to learn how to make the most of their trips, including avoiding long lines if they are bothered by them. Frankly, though, I can be counted among those who have been "nuts" enough to spend an hour or more waiting for Fantasmic, waitng to get a good spot for a parade, or waiting to ride Rocket Rods, knowing full well the ride may break down before I get to ride it. In my younger days I was even nuts enough to sleep on the sidewalk waiting to get tickets for a hot concert. But I never waited for any of these things without having a good time. I was just so delighted to be there -- enjoying my family and friends, and enjoying the company of the other guests around me.

Tmartin, if you are really here because you are considering treating your child to another magical vacaction, please keep reading and learn from the posters. If you really can't stand the crowds, go mid-week during the off-season (taking your children out of school if necessary), go early before afternoon crowds. It appears that you may have options that most of us don't have. Most importantly, if you do come back, please bring a good attitude; it will go a long way towards making your trip (and more importantly, your child's trip) enjoyable.

 

[iceskatejen]

There are a few things you need when going to DL, particularly at crowded times (and June is going to be crowded, as are July, August and Christmas break): patience, a plan, and an understanding that you are not going to get it all done in one day.

I don't grab a spot for parades or Fantasmic until I see others doing so. Sure I want a good spot, and yeah, I'm pretty willing to wait. And a lot of the time I'm sitting there in deference to my sore feet, which really need a break for an hour or two.

I can promise you that with the amount of loyal AP holders that DL has, they won't be dumping it (or multi-day tickets) any time soon.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but it sounds to me like you didn't do your homework before going to DL.

 

[TheZue]

The other reason comparing disneyland to a sports event is nuts is the demographic. Almost everyone at a sporting event lives in the city. People who are spending $200 to go to a sporting event (BTW all the hockey games I've ever been to have been around $75 with the cheap tickets starting around $25) aren't spending another $100 minimum on the hotel and up to $500 on the airfare/gas to get to it. Disneyland is a vaction experience, while a sporting event usually isn't. Disneyland's ticket price is only part of the expense of going.

Before you compare it to the superbowl again, the superbowl is expensive because it happens once a year with the best players. If the superbowl was a daily event the tickets wouldn't be $200 either. Same goes for concerts. Even sports in general could be included in this since they have seasons and the teams don't play every day which is another reason why it isn't fair to compare an amusement park to a sporting event.

The other thing that kills me about this thread is that you are only using the examples of attractions that have long wait lists...try going on something other than peter pan if you don't want to wait that long. From your opinion of Disneyland it doesn't seem as if you'd be too picky about what dark ride you are on. There are plenty of attractions within disneyland that don't have 50 minute wait times. In fact I have never waited that long for a ride, if the ride has a wait that long I just come back later...certainly not worth the extra money for me to get to go on any ride I like when I like. Besides...even if you did let only half the people in the park, there would still be lineups for certain rides. People don't evenly distribute themselves through the park...the popular rides would still have huge long waits because people would be drawn to them.

In closing there is a South Park episode you need to watch. It's called Cartmanland.

 

[tmartin]

O.k. I've read all the rationaizations and apologies from ya'll for Disney's silly idea of letting 80,00 people into a park designed for 15,000 and I'll just write one last post pointing out the fallacies and sum up my thoughts:

Fallacy #1. Because millions of people attend the Disney Parks, therefore, they are run effectively.

People love the idea, the concept of it all. The attractions are unbelievably unique and appeal to all ages. Disney themselves recognized they have a "line problem" (probably from complainers like me) and instituted FastPass. My idea of one ticket per day is another improvement. There is a local restaurant with poor service but outstanding food. My wife and I vow never to go back, but the food just keeps calling out to us, so we return. Same thing here: Disney, like Hawaii, is a great place that has been ruined by overcrowding.

Fallacy #2 Poor people cannot pay #200 a ticket.

This fallacy appeals to emotion. To repeat, there are NO poor people at Disneyland! Sure some families save up for the trip, but $200 isn't that much different from $50 for the people I'm talking about. They just might need to save a bit longer but then again, they'd enjoy the experience 100% more.

fallacy #3 We stay for 5 days. How could our family spend #1,000 a day!

Under my sane plan, a family would ride each attraction countless times, experience few lines for food, see all parades, etc. in ONE DAY. Inagine the concept--going to a theme park and going home satisfied you'd seen and done it all--all without plotting a Venn diagram and strategic plan or getting up at 5:30 a.m. on your vacation.

fallacy #4 Trying to have it both ways.

One of you says that Disney has existed for 50 years, so they must know what they're doing and need no help from me. Then another of you says those same smart Disney execs have calculated things and concluded they could make no more money by opening another park. Let's see: the parks are so well-run, profitable, and wildly popular that one would have o be crazy to open another.

to gcurling: The reason no other parks adopt my idea is that they, like Disney, like most businesses, concern themselves with profit. As long as saps like us put up with it they'll continue to do it. I love Notre Dame football. On most weekends during the year, the Super 8 South Bend sells for $75 a night. On football weekends it's uh, $275 a night! You see, they have people over a barrel, and they know it. I simply believe most people love DisneyLand but know deep down that something could be done rather than the silly advice of, "go during a rainy November day, take your kids out of school, and get up at 5:45 a.m. and you'll love it!" That's pathetic. We can do better than this!

 

[LucyKate]

Actually I think this has nailed the problem

The vast majority of people who visit this park are locals

Most of the people in Disneyland are locals who go there almost weekly, yet most of the people who have viseted Disneyland will do it once or twice in their lives - they will travel from all across America, or across the world (as we did) and spend thousands, if not tens of thousands to make the trip.

In many cases, when they get there, they will find themselves queueing with thousands of people who pay $200 per year and see the park as a weekly treat.

The answer to me, (and it appears to Disneyland, judging by the way they have been raising their AP fees so sharply in recent years) is to make the APs much more expensive (and so sell less of them, and have fewer locals in the park) and sell more tickets to interstate and overseas visitors.

Overseas and interstate visitors are much more likely to buy meals and souvenirs in the parks so this makes them more money, while keeping down the crowds.

(apologies to the SC locals who I know will be horrified by this suggestion, but it appears Disney is already doing this anyway)

 

[chibichibirei]

Im a college student who needs to support myself, I have countless bills to pay etc. This is a major expense for me that I have been saving up for, I dont know if I could afford going if the tickets were any more expense, and its just me and my fiance, where does it put the familys who barely make ends meet? I know you said that they can just save up longer, but I think it would put alot of people off from ever going. And excluding locals is just crazy, travelers bring in alot of their profits,but just think of how many locals have AP's, I know that if I lived in So. Cal I'd buy a AP.
You just can not compare Disneyland to a concert or a sport event, they just arent the same thing. in a concert and sporting event you are in a fixed spot, unless you go to the bathroom or to get something from the vendors. So they have a capacity of how many seats they have, and can allow no more, and wouldnt. In the theme park setting no one stays in one spot for very long, so it takes a lot more people to fill that capacity where no one can move. And I agree with the above poster who said even if they used your plan, people would still gravitate to the most popluar rides, and there woud still be congestion. And then youd complain about that. Indiana jones may still have a half hour wait time, etc. Personally I love big crowds, people watching is so much fun. If you dont like the crowds or how Disneyland handles the crowds, why not try a smaller themepark, like Knotts or Universal.

 

[HaleyB]

Well our OP seems to have left the building, at least that is the claim in the last post. I really didn't read the whole thread, it seems pointless. If you hate crowds Disney parks are never going to be your favorite place.

What made me break down and post was:

Fallacy #2 Poor people cannot pay #200 a ticket. ...$200 isn't that much different from $50 ...

Why are we arguing with that kind of brilliant insight?

 

[LucyKate]

I think the problem with that sort of reasoning is it fails to take into account different circumstances.

For one person, perhaps it's not a big difference, but for a family of four or 5 it adds $600 to $750 to the toal cost of the trip.

That could break the bank for a US family driving from somewhere on the west coast and looking for an affordable holiday.

But for people like us, flying from Australia (and already having to spend thousands on airares transport and accommodation) it would not make a huge different to the overall cost of the holiday.

If crowds in the parks continue to grow, I think Disney will just respond by making the APs more expensive and increasing blackout dates - judging from what locals say here, it seems the easiest way to cut crowds is to make it harder for locals.

 

[PryncessChrysty]

If you don't like the way the Disney parks are run, then just don't go. Plain and simple. Clearly, they're doing something right if MILLIONS of people keep coming back again and again. Don't expect to come to a message board about Disney and get people to jump in on your Disney downin' bandwagon. It's just not gonna happen.
The whole $200 per ticket concept is just absurd. You say you would pay that price to go to a crowd-free Disney. However, I bet if Disney were to incorporate it, the very same people that wanted it crowd-free would then begin to plain about the ridiculously high costs to go to a park about a mouse. And then complain that there weren't enough thrill rides for that price. There is not one corporation out there that can please everybody. Disney, as loved as they are, falls under that category as well. Obviously, they have yet to win you over. Frankly, I highly doubt they're willing to bend over backwards to make sure that YOU get what you want, when 79,999 other people are willing to deal with it.

 

[gene751]

tmartin said:

Why not open Disneylands in say, San Antonio

Yeah! Why not! (Said the man from San Antonio.)

I would kinda have to agree with tmartin in a weird way.

Disneyland makes it's money from tourists, not locals. Easy way to cut locals out of the equasion is to raise AP prices and blackout dates. It's that simple. Look at all the moaning with they raised it $30. Imaging if they raised it $100. People would scream bloody murder.

 

[gene751]

tmartin said:

Why not open Disneylands in say, San Antonio

Yeah! Why not! (Said the man from San Antonio.)

I would kinda have to agree with tmartin in a weird way.

Disneyland makes it's money from tourists, not locals. Easy way to cut locals out of the equasion is to raise AP prices and blackout dates. It's that simple. Look at all the moaning with they raised it $30. Imagine if they raised it $100. People would scream bloody murder.

 

[Amberle3]

I think what tmartin needs to do is what the big celebs do: Rent out the park. Since he apparently feels that money shouldn't be an object and doesn't want to have to wait for other people, this way he can pay to have the whole place to himself.

 

[PryncessChrysty]

I think what tmartin needs to do is what the big celebs do: Rent out the park. Since he apparently feels that money shouldn't be an object and doesn't want to have to wait for other people, this way he can pay to have the whole place to himself.

Great suggestion!

 

[All Aboard]

We keep mentioning $200 a ticket (partly my fault), but it could be a great deal more when Disney also has to recoup all of the non-ticket dollars lost by having just a fraction of any day's guests in the park.

 

[PryncessChrysty]

We keep mentioning $200 a ticket (partly my fault), but it could be a great deal more when Disney also has to recoup all of the non-ticket dollars lost by having just a fraction of any day's guests in the park.

I just used your example since the OP was actually willing to pay that much. ITA with your statement, though. Not to mention the price for food, beverages and souveniers would also face a great price increase.

 

[Buckimion]

tmartin said:

Why not open Disneylands in say, San Antonio

Yeah! Why not! (Said the man from San Antonio.)

There was a rumor for awhile that Disney would be opening an Ohio Adventure park as a followup to its DCA...but it ended up DOA.

 

[iceskatejen]

Imagine if they raised it $100. People would scream bloody murder.

Um, they did that on PAPs over the last year, in 2 $50 increments, but this year's pass was $100 more than last year's was. Did I scream bloody murder? No. Did I wish they hadn't raised the price that much in 1 year? You bet. But the PAP is still a great value for me. It's paid for in 4 visits--this year's is already paid for.