Why not cap crowds every day?

[tmartin]

It occurs to me that over half of posts on this board discuss fears of big crowds, how to plan a trip to avoid crowds, long lines, FAST PASS etc. Last year we went to DL for first time (a Thursday in June) and I was absolutely blown away by the amount of people in a park which seemed to be designed for 1/6 the amount of people there. It was a hassle simply dodging people to walk down the street, and being able to take your eyes off navigating the crowds to enjoy a sight seemed impossible. Lines snaked forever for a 3 minute ride. The atmosphere for the Fantasmic showing was surreal--people lined up for hours before the show and there was such a crush of people in the area I couldn't believe how anybody could see or enjoy anything. The show was a rumor. We left after 10 minutes.

So, my question is: why not simply sell a reasonable amount of tickets for the park per day like any other event and that's it. No more people get in. Every day. Lines should be about 10 minutes, nice free walkways to enjoy the park and sites. Why ruin the experience for everyone to squeeze as much profit out of a day as possible?

Or, why not build more Disneylands? Since people obviously love the idea, why aren't there parks scattered all over the country. I love the DisneyLand concept and I'm on this board because son wants to go back. I just am not looking forward to it much.

 

[Disneyland1084]

Disneyland isn't for everybody. I know people who despise that place. I don't see how, I LOVE it. You know Disneyland would NEVER sell a certain amount of tickets per day. It's all about money! A lot of people have asked WHY Disneyland's 50th is being celebrated at all the parks worldwide. Again, it's all about MONEY. I'm sure if there was a way Disneyland could get the park to be crowded ALL year long they would do it. Just think, the more profit they make, the more likely another park will be built in the United States.

 

[disneychrista]

They do CAP the people in the park everyday. It just happens to be that the cap is somewhere near 80,000 people, which is A LOT of people.

ALso with AP and park hopper is would be impossible to say only sell 50k or whatever tickets to the park because my guess is that over 50% of the parks guest are either AP's or multi-day park hopper tickets. Other then projections there is no way to know when an AP or park hopper will be used.

If you want less crowds then you have to go during the week during off season. This is very hard for many, since a lot of people, plan their trips for during school breaks and holidays and summer.

The good news is if you plan ahead you can alievieate alot of the problems that crowds generate. Get to the park early, make use of FP, etc. We went for NYE a couple of years ago and never really noticed the crowds that much until later in the evening (dinner time). We got there early. Enjoyed the park in the morning and early afternoon and were prepared for the crowds. If you go not expecting crowds you will be disapointed. If you go expecting the crowds it is much easier to handle them.

 

[Amberle3]

I have to say that I have been in the parks when the attendance reached capacity, and I frankly didn't find it all that bad. Sure there are some waits, but if you go expecting the lines and keep a good attitude then it really isn't bad at all.

We were there at Christmas, actually on Christmas day when they had to turn people away. We went a few days before Christmas and got our annual passes, and I have to say that the line for waiting for those was longer than anything I stood in when the park was at capacity!

 

[All Aboard]

why not simply sell a reasonable amount of tickets for the park per day like any other event and that's it. No more people get in. Every day. Lines should be about 10 minutes, nice free walkways to enjoy the park and sites.

Sounds like a great idea. Will you be willing to pay the $200 or so for a ticket for that experience? That's just a guess on what it would take in order to keep revenue flat to current. Could be more.

 

[tmartin]

I would absolutely spend $200 a ticket for a short lined, uncongested walkways, etc. pleasant experience. That's almost the going rate for concerts, sporting events, etc. anyway. As to the problem of AP tickets, they would not exist in my system. You pay for a ticket for June 18th and you go on June 18th--like anything else in life. I realize one can improve the experience with Fast Pass, getting up early, off season vistits, etc. but why do I have to go on a frigid November day and get up at 6 in the morning just to enjoy DisneyLand?

 

[All Aboard]

Well, Tmartin (you were a heckuva player at Tennessee by the way), it comes down to the supply and demand model. Things tend to price themselves. Most people are not willing to pay extremely high prices to have the park exclusively to themselves. You are aparently in the minority. Remove the Annual Passholders, and limit the guests to a number that will keep lines to 10 minutes? In order to keep revenue up, you'll have to price it very high. Then, you don't have enough people willing to pay that price. So, in the end, failure.

It's a nifty little pricing model that works all by itself. We, the consumers, set the price in reality.

 

[tmartin]

Look, nobody currently paying $50 a pop for a Disney ticket and bringing their family is crying poverty. Most people fly in, for crying out loud! Add to entrance fees the tons of cash people spend at the stores and food stands and I can honestly say there are no Tiny Tims there. I agree, "we the consumers, set the price" so it follows that we can also determine the experience--by paying more money for more elbow room.

 

[chibichibirei]

It just wouldnt work, as everyone else pointed out. Alot of people buy their AP tickets to save money, and where would that put those people? And you mentioned a second Disneyland, the ammount of money that would set them back would be skyhigh, and your park tickets would follow suite, the average family could no longer afford the tickets, and therefore Disney looses customers and lots and lots of money. Also there is another Disneyland its DCA, which usually as far as I understand it isnt nearly as busy as Disneyland itself. Sure crowds are no fun, but I really cant see anything changing about that anytime soon. As far as I can tell, as I havent been to Disneyland since I was a baby, if you plan your day around the crowds, select the rides you want to ride, make a game plan, use the fastpasses, etc. the crowds shouldnt seem that bad.

 

[almostGoofy]

Look, nobody currently paying $50 a pop for a Disney ticket and bringing their family is crying poverty. Most people fly in, for crying out loud! Add to entrance fees the tons of cash people spend at the stores and food stands and I can honestly say there are no Tiny Tims there. I agree, "we the consumers, set the price" so it follows that we can also determine the experience--by paying more money for more elbow room.

As for "most people fly in...", that's not the case at DL. The vast majority of people who visit this park are locals; I believe I remember reading somewhere it's about 60 - 70%. I remember when DCA opened and how many complained about it being the same price as DL but not nearly the same number of attractions. Many felt it wasn't the same value as DL so, the locals went to DL instead. It wasn't until Disney finally offered a break on the price for locals during the second summer (which was unheard of during high season) and included it with the annual passes without adding an extra fee, as they did originally, that foot traffic picked up at DCA. Based on that experience, I think the Disney people would be very mindful about not overpricing DL tickets. The locals have made it very clear that they will not pay if they feel it's overpriced and the locals are the majority of the visitors.

 

[TheZue]

Personally I think it would be creepy. I don't go to L.A./Disneyland to avoid people. The streets being filled at night with lots of stuff glowing in the dark is pretty cool if you ask me. Oh, and I'm driving from Canada, and Disneyland is one of the cheapest vacations out there for a family if done right.

On top of all that, if they charged people that much to get in they'd probably spend that much less in the parks on the souveniers. So they'd have less people and less money. I really don't think it would pay off.

 

[tmartin]

there is another Disneyland its DCA, which usually as far as I understand it isnt nearly as busy as Disneyland itself.

DCA isn't DisneyLand by any stretch of the imagination. They are completely different concepts. With Toontown and Fantasyland vs. California Screamin' you are talking about completely different clientele. Why not open Disneylands in say, San Antonio, and Phoenix, and Atlanta. Based on current crowds at DL and WDW, it looks like there is enough people to go around.

 

[Amberle3]

Part of the problem you face with only selling a certain number of tickets for each day is that many of the admission tickets don't have specific dates on them. If you purchase a package ahead of time and you get a 5 day park hopper it will tell you that it's good for a 14 day period starting the day of the first use. It doesn't tell you what specific days you can go - you're free to choose what days you want to go. There are a great many folks with annual passes, but Disney doesn't assume that every one of those people is going to show up every day. They know that even though there are maybe 400,000 potential people that could visit on any given day, only a fraction of them will. The only thing that determines how many people are actually in the park is the count of the people who have gone through the gates. So yes, you could have a ticket in your hot little hand and be turned away, that's just how it works.

Tickets for other events are different - if you're going to a movie then you're purchased a ticket for a specific showing on a specific day. Everyone else has a ticket for that showing too. No one is wandering around with a cinema-hopping annual pass trying to decide on if they should go to a show that day or not. Because the tickets are so specific the theatre can just stop selling for a particular show when they've run out of seats. Disney can't do that. They can't go by the number of tickets sold, they have to go by the number of people in the park.

And the answer is just simply that there IS a max capacity for the parks, and if it reaches that on ANY given day then they don't allow any more admissions. Period. That's the way Disney works, that's the way Universal works. And even at it's most crowded Disneyland has still been better run and a more pleasant experience than my visits to our local fair which typically has longer lines, surly employees and crappy rides. And worse (and more expensive) food.

 

[tmartin]

I have already addressed this situation in a previous post. AP and Hopper tickets disappear under my sane plan. You have a ticket for Disneyland for June 18th. It is valid only on June 18th and only at DL. An 80,000 max is absurd. That's like saying, "The seating capacity for Yankee Stadium is 63,000. Let's try to sell 142,000 tickets and when the seats fill up, the people can enjoy the game from the aisles. If someone goes to the potty, well, yeah they'll have to crawl over all those people in the aisles but then those people can take their seat! Sure, there will be a 1 hr. 45 minute hot dog line and a 45 minute line to use the bathroom but, hey, you're in Yankee Stadium!

 

[iceskatejen]

Actually, 80,000 isn't all that bad at DL. on Thursday at 1pm, DL was at 90% capacity, so that had to be over 70,000 people in there and the ride lines weren't all that bad. It was the food and merch lines that were crazy, but that's because 2 large food places were closed for the media (Plaza Inn and Rancho Del Zocolo) and the Golden Horshoe was closed because they needed some place to do the Happiest Birthday on Earth thing since they normally do that at the Plaza Inn, and there was a lot of new pins and other limited edition items out that day.

And there's no way in the world you'll get me to give up my AP and pay 2/3 the same as I pay to go to DL any day I feel like during a year for one day. Ain't gonna happen. And I think every AP holder would feel the same way.

BTW, DL bases how many CMs they have working per day on group sales. Apparently there wasn't much in the way of groups sales for Thursday--DL had no idea we were all coming.

 

[Blndiebby25]

I have already addressed this situation in a previous post. AP and Hopper tickets disappear under my sane plan. You have a ticket for Disneyland for June 18th. It is valid only on June 18th and only at DL. An 80,000 max is absurd. That's like saying, "The seating capacity for Yankee Stadium is 63,000. Let's try to sell 142,000 tickets and when the seats fill up, the people can enjoy the game from the aisles. If someone goes to the potty, well, yeah they'll have to crawl over all those people in the aisles but then those people can take their seat! Sure, there will be a 1 hr. 45 minute <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=hot%20dog" onmouseover="window.status='hot dog'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">hot dog</a> line and a 45 minute line to use the bathroom but, hey, you're in Yankee Stadium!

And I believe someone also mentioned that if Disney went with your "sane" plan that the admission prices would be $200.00 per person per day. While you may have this type money kicking around, not many do. Unless you are suggesting that only the rich should be able to enjoy the magic of Disney.

We are a family of 5, with your plan it would cost us approx. $1000.00 per day (who spends just one day there unless they live close to the park). I know I can't afford that and no I am not pleadin poverty, we are just an average family. Walt Disney made this park so the average person could enjoy the magic of Disney not just the rich people who can afford $200.00 per person with your "sane" plan.

 

[CalGal]

There may be no perfect answer here, but making Disneyland as unaffordable or unobtainable to most families as many sporting events are can't possibly be the best solution. Disneyland isn't just another "event" for most of the guests. Sure, some of us spend hundreds of dollars per day to stay onsight, eat at themed restaurants, and splurge on souveniers. But please, let's not neglect the many, many visitors that save hard for a year or longer to enjoy this magical and memorable family vacation. You'll see some of these folks eating at McDs or Denny's, and staying at one of the many Budget hotels nearby. Many of them may also not have the luxury of planning months in advance to order predated tickets. Walt built this park for them too.

I also imagine that Disney has done the payback analysis of putting other parks in other parts of the country and I imagine the results have been that it would require a huge investment for comparably little income growth. I'm afraid it's not sane to run any business if you aren't able to make a profit, and building new parks that don't make money or dramatically reducing the crowds at DL will make Disney unprofitable.

While there may be no perfect solution for DL crowds in this imperfect world, one of the reasons that I am such a fan of DL, is that I believe they do a pretty darn good job of balancing the crowd situation -- FastPass, postings of wait times for many rides, longer hours during the peak periods, and providing an enjoyable experience outside of the rides: parades, musical groups, fireworks. The current admission price is plenty steep enough to balance demand with not quite putting this magical experience completely out of reach to the families for which this park was built. As tmartin initially pointed out, many of us read this board to learn how to maximize our enjoyment by learning how to deal with the crowds, but the crowds are there because this is truly a special place.

PS -- Personnally, I've had a much harder time dealing with capacity crowds at baseball games than I ever have had at DL...

 

[All Aboard]

Well, I guess you've figured it out. After 50 years of running theme parks it's just an absolute miracle that Disney hasn't gone bankrupt. Because, clearly, they don't know what the hell they're doing. Charging so little and letting so many people in; what are they thinking?

What you fail to reconcile is that fact that roughly 14,000,000 people a year disagree with you and visit Disneyland despite the absolutely horrible time they are having. And, crazy as it seems, another 45,000,000 people visit the Walt Disney World theme parks each year. They truly must be out of their minds. Don't they know that they are having an awful experience?

And how about this? If your formula is the pathway to success, then why aren't there any theme parks in the world that do this? Surely, if super-high priced admission in favor of extremely limited crowds make fiscal sense, somebody oughta be doing it? Right?

Your position holds no reasonable merit and is clearly just a response to a lousy time you had at Disneyland, paired with the fact that you cannot fathom the thought of going there again to appease your son.

So, you demand that the Disney Company abandon a formula that is clearly logical and clearly favored by the vast majority of guests in order to satisfy your personal needs and desires. I can't help but say this, it's almost laughable.

 

[jlmarr]

Disney has tried to alleviate crowds in various ways: opening and expanding the second gate (DCA), raising ticket prices (particularly for the premium AP's that contribute to crowding during busy seasons), even the nationwide promotion of WDW. But people still show up in droves, crowds or not. Maybe those who are ticked about the crowding levels should go complain at City Hall, and that might lead to a reassessment of the max capacity cutoff.

 

[tmartin]

Actually, 80,000 isn't all that bad at DL.

You must be an extremely cooperative person. When I was there, I literally couldn't walk down any of the paths leading to the rides, the parades were a rumor because my toddler wasn't interested in staking out a place 2 hours ahead of time, and I'm sorry but waiting 50 minutes for Peter Pan is nuts. All of this could be solved by capping attendance, raising admission prices, and dumping the AP. No one just wakes up one day and says, "I think I'll wander on over to the Super Bowl game today. They'll squeeze me in."