Why not buy the cheapest home resort??

[Desperado]

Originally posted by PamOKW
and a BCV owner who wants to use a GV doesn't mind calling up and booking one at OKW.

Actually, I thought these were impossible to get without the 11 month window, can you get a GV in the 7 month window? Does it have to be the super "off season" to be successful?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by PamOKW
and a BCV owner who wants to use a GV doesn't mind calling up and booking one at OKW.

Neither does a BCV owner that wants to conserve points, nor does one that needs a little more elbow room. DVC's got something for everybody. It's great!

And I'm sure we're all thinking it, so let me say it: Desperado, why don't you come to your senses?

 

[PamOKW]

Uh oh....I just went into the twilight zone with this thread. I tried to delete the GV comment and added a nice long essay. The essay disappeared but Desperado saved my quote. Could be time to back out of this one....

Yes, Desperado sometimes you can get a GV. I think it would be pretty tricky for Christmas and Easter but, as with all things DVC, you never know until you try. See, you can't makes assumptions based on what you read on the boards.

I can't remember what I put my in missing post, LOL!! Maybe someone is trying to tell me it's time to give this a rest.

I did want to try again to make the point that just because there is availability at OKW and another resort is full, it doesn't necessarily follow that the resort is full because OKW members are staying there instead of at OKW. You cannot know this unless you have access to the actual guest information.

My other question to Desperado is why you continually refer to the "older" OKW? Why the "older"? BWV is also "old" in comparison to the other DVC resorts.

 

[NCRedding]

Coming forward to receive my indictment: Using HH points, I booked a GV at OKW in October of 2002 by calling exactly 7 months out. We only stayed 1 night before going over to the Wonder. That same trip, I booked an Illuminations cruise for my family by calling from my hotel room on the 4th of July at 7 am. Should I be punished for that too?? After all, I planned ahead and requested what the rules allow.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Just because OKW has availability and another resort does not, that does not mean that OKW owners are filling the other resort. You cannot know this unless you match the names on the list to the people at the resort.

Some people are scared by the clown at BWV. Take that down and maybe more people will go there and I'll have an easier time booking BCV. That's what you are asking to have happen at OKW.

Desperado, why do you continually refer to OKW as the older OKW rather than just OKW? BWV is also among the "old" DVC resorts.

You also seem to think there has been a sea change in OKW members' thinking that will demand a slide if asked. I wouldn't be adverse if DVC brought the topic up for discussion again but I'm not sure whether the results would be different. We've done the poll at least once here and I was surprised to see the results come out almost exactly as they had with the DVC poll. There were also a surprising number of people who were not members who liked not having a slide. Basically, the same people still own DVC that owned when the poll was done the first time. There may not be a big a shift in their desire to put in a slide now.

Is that what you were trying to say, Pam? When I quoted your post above, this is what came up. I think the board software has had enough. I know I have.

 

[PamOKW]

Uh oh! Jimbo now I'm getting scared. Time for me to cry "uncle" on this post.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
I have no idea and no facts to use to base that opinion.

Call MS and ask them and you'll have facts confirming what has already been reported several times.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by Jimbo
Neither does a BCV owner that wants to conserve points, nor does one that needs a little more elbow room. DVC's got something for everybody. It's great!

And I'm sure we're all thinking it, so let me say it: Desperado, why don't you come to your senses?

Good one. I've been out riding fences so long now
......
Now it seems to me, some fine things
Have been laid upon your table
But you only want the ones that you can't get
........

So, there is absolutely nothing that could every possibly be improved at older OKW to ever make it more enjoyable or appealing, it is absolutely perfect in every single flawless way, not a single possible opportunity to make it any better in any aspect? Of course, then why own at BWV as well? Comon Jimbo, swim out of the river in egypt, shake off those waters of 'denial.' Something could be improved at older OKW, couldn't it? Something? Some aspect might make it a little better? Removing something you don't like? Improving something you do like to make it better? Adding something that you've seen at other resorts that you like? Absolutely nothing? Not being able to mention one possible improvement says something, doesn't it?

by the way, older OKW is the oldest DVC resort, isn't it? How old now? For those jumping up and down and so interested in facts, that is a fact, right?

........
It may be rainin', but there's a rainbow above you
You better let somebody love you, before it's too late

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by Desperado
I guess I'm still trying to overcome the shock that OKW owners are stating that there is absolutely nothing, not one single improvement that could ever be made to the resort to make it the slightest amount better than it currently is, it is absolutley perfect in absolutely every respect. The excessive defensiveness is amazing.

(Anyone got a smilie that would show me massaging my temples?!?!)

A discussion of what needs to be improved at OKW is the tiniest sliver of this thread. The argument that I'm seeing is:

(Newer resorts like BCV and BWV "always" seem to be full) = (OKW owners are consistently getting ressies at resorts other than their own) = (OKW is ALWAYS under booked) = (OKW owners do not like their Home resort) = (Something needs to be done to OKW to make it more desirable)

If you want to start a thread about improvements to existing properties, go for it. But you're dreaming if you think THAT discussion is occurring here.

You've made it clear that you have never stayed at OKW and have no intention of doing so. Therefore, if you choose to start that other thread, please enlighten us all and start with a list of things you would need to see in order to add OKW to your list.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by tjkraz
[BThe argument that I'm seeing is:

(Newer resorts like BCV and BWV "always" seem to be full) = (OKW owners are consistently getting ressies at resorts other than their own) = (OKW is ALWAYS under booked) = (OKW owners do not like their Home resort) = (Something needs to be done to OKW to make it more desirable)
[/B]

Let's make it simpler, it doesn't have to be that complicated. There is less demand for OKW than for other resorts= improving the desirability of OKW could better level demand=improving OKW doesn't harm anyone=leveling demand in a non-punative, non-restrictive constructuve manner is more equitable and favorable for all members.

This elliminates any accusations about "OKW owners do not like their Home resort" or some of the other extremes you've mentioned. I raised the suggestion of improving older OKW desirability as a more favorable option than other condeming approaches.

Does the inability of OKW owners to discuss possible improvements for their resort indicate a deep seated preceived inequity on thier own part that actually confirms some of your statements? I hope not. Why so defensive, is OKW really that inferior? I dont' think so overall, older OKW's advantages are just less desirable for us, not for many, many other people. But, I would think any resort owner could list improvements for thier home resort. Jaysue was able to, I listed some for onsite bcv and could easily do so for my home resort Vero.

Improving older OKW is a solution to resolving what is being reported in this thread as unequal demand (check with MS and ask if you do not believe there is a difference in demand). The suggestion for any improvements at OKW is being attacked. Why? It is a constructive and positive approach. Even if OKW is the absolute best of all DVC resorts, what harm is there in raising the discussion of possible improvements? Some see a benefit. Some cannot possibly discuss such an issue without personal attacks and smokescreen, diversions and denial in responses. That's probably a stronger message by OKW owners themselves than any of the earlier accusations.

older OKW is beautiful, with nice advantages. OKW owners, why not add a couple of extra advantages. What's the harm?

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by Desperado
Why so defensive, is OKW really that inferior?

Defensive? No.

Exasperated? Yes.

Sorry, I'm used to dealing in an environment where the discussions are based upon more hard fact and less supposition.

Now you're making inflammatory comments to bait people. I'm done.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by tjkraz
Defensive? No.

Exasperated? Yes.

Sorry, I'm used to dealing in an environment where the discussions are based upon more hard fact and less supposition.

Now you're making inflammatory comments to bait people. I'm done.

Evassive?

Avoidance?

uhhhh you forgot the next sentence in your quote answering the first "I dont' think so overall, older OKW's advantages are just less desirable for us, not for many, many other people."

You haven't presented lots of supposition? Where are the hard facts you have presented? Seems like you dissagree (which is fine) and you cannot support your aurgument (which happens), so you attack the poster (bummer).

Bottom line, as many times as I've posed the question every response has evaded, changed the topic, or been an attack, or used the old denial approach of "we need more data". What is the harm in improving OKW to equalize demand? Even if you assume demand is already equal, what's the downside to improving the older OKW resort? Dues cost is the only one I can see. Otherwise it seems to benefit many more than it harms.

of course OKW owners themselves can define what they would like to see as improvements, they would have the final vote, no question, nobody said any differently. Improvements would address concerns stated throughout this thread. It's a win-win, and people are caught up in win-lose, and attacking other posters, IMHO. Another more inclusive and updated survey could be conducted, instead of citing something that is over 5 years old. Even if you totally dissagree with all of the concerns raised, what is the downside to making improvements besides dues? Why so defensive in starting to describe some OKW improvements?

Talk about exasperated, jeeeeeze. It's OK, you can mention some improvements with out being sacrilegious.

We are on page 13. The discussion should evolve to presenting some realistic and hopefully constructive solutions to concerns presented, not just hypocritical attacks toward posters, even if they don't meet with your approval or your dissagree.

 

[goofy4dvc]

Originally posted by Desperado
Let this post serve as an indictment of VB and HH owners who use their points almost exclusively at onsite resorts.

I take offense at your statement. Our first purchase was 150 points at VB. It was the only property for sale by DVC at the time. Our guide told us that you can stay anywhere no matter where you purchase. He asked us when we planned to visit WDW and we told him "Not spring break or summers", and he said we shouldn't have any trouble getting ressies at any resort in the 7 month window. We were very naive and didn't know about any of these websites at the time so we were not as informed as we are now. If we had, we would have waited to purchase the next resort built or purchased a resale. Since most of our trips will be spent at WDW, we have since purchased points in BCV and VWL. We considered selling our VB to purchase on-site points, but found we would lose alot of money. We did not intentionally purchase VB points to use at onsite resorts.

 

[dyingtodisney]

JMHO- I didn't think this thread was about improving OKW...so why should anyone need to comment on that?

 

[dyingtodisney]

In response to the OP I did not buy SSR because it had the 2nd lowest dues and had some devious plan to oust all the other members from their rooms at other resorts.
I bought SSR because I like the resort theme, that was all DIsney offered me also and I had no knowledge of resales at the time.
That being said I will which is within my right as a DVC member occasionally attempt to book at other resorts during the 7 month booking window. I hope we will be safe if we are found out! LOL!

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by dyingtodisney
JMHO- I didn't think this thread was about improving OKW...so why should anyone need to comment on that?

We are on page 14. The discussion should evolve to presenting some realistic and hopefully constructive solutions to concerns presented, not just hypocritical attacks toward posters. One suggestion early on was for BWV to pull out of DVC. While I dissagree, it is a solution. Making some improvements to older OKW seems more realistic to me, but that doesn't make either right or wrong, just a discussion of pros and cons that is on topic as a solution to the OP's thread and concerns raised about inequitable demand.

 

[Desperado]

I take offense at your statement. [/B]

OK, I removed the post, no offense intended.

 

[dyingtodisney]

How can you say wanting this thread to stay on the topic that OP started a "hypocritical attack"? If you felt it was an attack that was not how it was intended. I just was trying to follow the rules the moderators have given us.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by dyingtodisney
How can you say wanting this thread to stay on the topic that OP started a "hypocritical attack"? If you felt it was an attack that was not how it was intended. I just was trying to follow the rules the moderators have given us.

Sorry, not you specifically, but some posters who haven't been able to move from thier steadfast defensive position have resorted to a personal attacking mode.

One description of the last 14 pages is that there is a perceived problem with demand inequity, with there being less demand and more availability at one resort as compared with other resorts, causing less availability at other resorts. One reason cited is people capitalizing on lower dues with no intention of staying at one resort compared to others. aurgument over demand inequity as reality. aurgument over anyone having the right to voice concerns. allowed by rules? factual verification of demand patterns? attack dissagreeing posters. solutions? legitimacy of concern? Is there a constructive solution to address demand inequity that doesn't negatively impact others? attack dissagreeing posters. Even if demand inequity is not universally agreed upon as a problem, are there solutions that don't negatively impact others and benefit members? So far there's one. avoidance, evasiveness, attack dissagreeing posters.

At least something like that.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by dyingtodisney
That being said I will which is within my right as a DVC member occasionally attempt to book at other resorts during the 7 month booking window.

Absolutely. That's the plan you purchased. I might stay at new SSR too.