Why not buy the cheapest home resort??

[PamOKW]

Where is there any statistic that demand to stay at OKW is down? None of us have access to figures that would show that. There is also no guarantee of availablity on demand at OKW. Your perception may be that OKW is always available but, in fact, that is not true in my experience Your perception may be that your home resort is impossible to book at under 7 months, statements here seem to indicate that is also not true but, once again, none of us have true statistics. Without the facts, none of us can say what is truly happening.

While we're on the topic of not having true figures, how do we know that it is OKW members that are causing you difficulty at your resorts? It's true that there are more DVC members with OKW as their home resort, because it is a larger resort. However, folks from VWL, HHI, Vero and BCV also book at BWV. And, the same is true for all the resorts. How about the percentage of BWV members that are trading out for cruises etc. BWV has been open awhile now and some members may be looking for other experiences. Their points are being used by Disney to book paying guests and filling your rooms.

Don't forget that problems booking at BWV were increased by the problems with BWV's construction. The resort was sold out, meaning all but 4% of the rooms should be filled every night. However, repair work took substantial sections of the resort out of inventory for what seemed like at least a year. No GVs were available for months. I'd be curious whether folks are finding it easier to book now than they did two years ago since (I think) you are back up to full capacity.

I don't see a large number of people who bought at OKW with no intention of staying there. I think you'd find more members who own Vero or HHI points who fit this scenario. Over the years perks, including park passes, were offered at Vero when they were no longer available at the other resorts.

Blame for the dfficulty of getting what you want when you want it can't be placed on any one resort. There are a multitude of factors effecting availability. "Fixing" OKW to fit your perception of what it should be won't necessarily solve your "problem".

I have read many posts here about people who for one reason or another ended up at OKW and were surprised by how much they liked the resort. Many members have expressed their delight with their home resort of OKW. Maybe if every mention of OKW isn't met by derogatory remarks, more people would at least give it a try. Some may love it, some may not. But, if more non-OKW members discover it's pluses it may ease what you see as a problem booking BWV.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Amazing! So you are saying the highly desireable BWV ALSO has availability??? I thought it was only OKW that you could get on short notice!

Yup...this is why I'm not totally grasping the complaints I'm reading here. How far out did Deep and others try to book when they ran into trouble ? Is it just holiday and F&W time ? Granted, I've never tried to book BWV or BCV during these times. Are BWV owners not utilizing their 8-11 month window ? Where is the proof that OKW owners are gobbling up all the ressies at other DVC resorts ? Pam makes a good point in stating :

However, folks from VWL, HHI, Vero and BCV also book at BWV. And, the same is true for all the resorts. How about the percentage of BWV members that are trading out for cruises etc. BWV has been open awhile now and some members may be looking for other experiences. Their points are being used by Disney to book paying guests and filling your rooms.

 

[SimbaCub]

I remember a comment by an owner at BWV when I stayed there in May 2002 for 8 nights. She and her family waited until 6 months prior to their trip dates to decide to stay at their home resort. There were no Standard View 1 Bedrooms available. They had to stay elsewhere--not important which resort. When she found out I was at BWV which is NOT one of my home resorts she accused me of "stealing" her room!! I told her that according to the rules ANYBODY can switch resorts at the 7 month window if there are room available. I find that attitude to be unacceptable. I was and still do follow the rules regarding the 7 month booking window. If there are no rooms then so be it, at least I am going to WDW!! I think this group of people is in the minority but may be more vocal.

I bought VWL because I know how hard it is to stay there in early December. I accepted that I would pay higher dues but it's for me to have the peace of mind that I can find a room when I want it with 11 months priority. I too agree that the members who make reservations with the sole intention of selling them off so others cannot make them at the 7 month window to be in poor taste. Fortunately, most of us are not like that so those people who do not respect their fellow DVC owners are in the minority.

I didn't buy OKW to "save" money on dues though I can see where people would assume that as I will try to switch resorts every other trip to try another one. I like the idea of trying out all the resorts and feel that is part of the charm of DVC. Would I be upset if I could not switch for the rest of my ownership? Not likely as I did buy in places where I want to stay. I think those people who bought based on dues and don't like the resort they have may be the ones who would be unhappy. Me, I think ANY trip where I can stay at a DVC resort is better than "just a hotel" in the Orlando area. . .

SimbaCub

 

[SharonS]

I am a BWV owner. I bought there so I would have the booking priority from 8-11 months out. As such, I plan accordingly, and book at the 11 month window.

If someone did purchase elsewhere with lower dues and did not ever intend to stay there, that is their perogative and they are the ones taking the risk that they may not get into their 'desired' resort at the 7 month mark.

I fail to see the problem with this approach if the person is willing to take that risk. For me personally, I would not want to take that chance. As such, I did purchase where I most wanted to stay.

When purchasing, I took the booking windows into consideration, and was comfortable that I could plan my trips accordingly to take advantage of my priority window most of the time. I also understood that if I couldn't plan that far in advance, there was a good chance I may not get my home resort, or my preferred time period.

 

[DeeP]

Just for the record............I will repeat my prior response.............I have had to MANY times, during all different time periods of the year, either change or alter my trip dates or villa type or view in order to get into BWV for my full trip dates. OKW on the other hand is ALWAYS available. The majority of the times I change my trip dates rather than stay at OKW but sometimes I have to be in FL at a certain time for business and there have been times that I have been stuck with OKW.
I bought at BWV because I want to stay at BWV, not OKW and it is very frustrating to always hear, "BWV is full but there is availabilty at OKW".
I would also like to see the % of how often each resort is full or not nearly full. If one looks at the occupancy % for each resort based on the resort is 50% full etc., the size of the resort and the number of rooms is not relevant.

 

[KANSAS]

Sharon S
I purchased OKW points, to only use at BCV at 7 month window.
My theory. I am saving 50 cents per point in annual dues, for next 38 years and getting same amneties as BCV, as people that own at BCV and pay bCV Annual dues.

I do not feel. Iam doing anything wrong, because DVC, never discouraged me anyway to do this, when I specifically addrssed this issue with me.

I also feel risk, is entirely with me. If I have made a mistake, it will blow in my face and I will have no one to blame but myself.

I do not think, it will. If I book exactly at 7 month window, because only so many 11 month window bcv owners, will want my exact date. Then I compete equally with other non bcv owners for BCV at exact 7 month window.

 

[PamOKW]

SharonS states the answer to the original question posed in this thread perfectly. Why not buy the cheapest home resort?? There's no reason not to if you are willing to take the risk of not having home resort priority at your desired resort.

Since what this thread really seems to be driving at is that resorts that pay less dues should not be allowed to use resorts that pay higher dues -- OKW owners may not use any other resort and BCV owners may not use BWV, VWL, BWV or VB. I assume that if next year the amounts shift, the rules would have to be changed? Of course, that is not the way the system is currently set up. However, some people seem to take offense at participating in the entire program and wish to just "own" their resort and would like DVC to make changes to that effect.

This type of reasoning got me thinking -- the people who originally bought did not, in fact, purchase OKW. Our dues statement still does not say OKW, it says Disney Vaction Club Condominium Association. If a change is to be made, these folks should have first choice of all DVC resorts because it was their purchase and their dues that brought about all subsequent resorts.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by DeeP
I would also like to see the % of how often each resort is full or not nearly full. If one looks at the occupancy % for each resort based on the resort is 50% full etc., the size of the resort and the number of rooms is not relevant.

Without this knowledge, we are all only making assumptions based on personal experience and not fact. This "may" be available at the Member Meetnigs and/or someone may want to bring it up.

 

[KANSAS]

i have foudn this thread, so interesting. I think someone posted that they stayed at BOardwalk, with non boardwalk points
and a boardwalk owner, accused them of "STEALING" THEIR ROOM.
IF true, this was very harsch
IF true, could Boardwalk owners, really have a hard time, with OKW Points, being used at Boardwalk at different times, next 38 years.

 

[crisi]

Originally posted by KANSAS

I do not think, it will. If I book exactly at 7 month window, because only so many 11 month window bcv owners, will want my exact date. Then I compete equally with other non bcv owners for BCV at exact 7 month window.

As more members buy in, this may be trickier to do. More will call day by day at seven months. And BCV will likely fill up with owners at certain times of year - its a small resort - with a great location and a lot of people who bought in for SAB - I'd expect it to be more difficult to book as your "not home" if you are looking for a place to go over school breaks or the F&W festival (BTW, F&W has been extended, so early October may get as difficult to book in the Epcot area as late October has been) - when the pool and/or location are particularly attractive to owners. But you acknowledge the risk. Plus there is the "bother factor." You save yourself 50 cents a point, but you may need to make seven early morning phone calls for a week stay, stay on hold waiting for member services to take your call, you may need to spend time on the waitlist, etc.

Wouldn't be worth it for me, but I am fond of throwing money at problems so I don't need to bother with stuff like this (and on my little 150 point contract - its a whole $75 a year not to bother and worth every penny to us - we spend more than that a month on coffee). Seems to be worth it for you.

The additional risk is that the maintenance fees may change at the resorts. It looks like over the past two years, BWVs (the expensive dues resort) has had smaller percentage increases than OKW (the cheap dues resort). OKW may yet get a pool slide and associated dues increase (if pool hopping ends, I'd bet on it - and if you see a slide going in at OKW, expect the pool hopping announcement).

 

[Desperado]

"Fixing" OKW to fit your perception of what it should be won't necessarily solve your "problem".

What's the harm? Many have reported wanting better pools at OKW, especially with SAB pool hopping restricted. Even if it doesn't even out the reduced demand there is for older OKW in comparison with the other resorts as reported on these boards by dramatically improving the resorts desirability, it won't hurt. People point to the survey done years ago about a pool slide, time to redo that survey and consider pool improvements.

I don't think changes and improvements would hurt the resort, but it's not my home resort, and is really a last choice resort for us, we prefer the other resorts over OKW. But it would be nice if the resort were more appealing as an option and reservation demand more even.

If you think there is just as much demand for OKW as the other DVC resorts, call MS yourself and check when making difficult reservations. OKW is more available more often on a regular basis. It's been mentioned multiple times in many, many threads. Even without detailed statistical reports, the reality is there is not as much demand for OKW reservations. Even if it is older OKW members trying other alternatives, perhaps amenities at OKW could improve the degree other DVC resort owners choose OKW at the 7 month window and even demand, why not? What's the harm in making some improvements at OKW?

I don't feel it's the same as HH or Vero either because OKW is on WDW property.

What? This doesn't make sense. The logic heard most often is buy where you plan to stay most often. It would apply to OKW as well.

DeeP, you were right about personal flames coming your way, doesn't seem to be good reason for it. You raised a legitimate question, whether I agree or not. Amazing.

 

[KANSAS]

CRISI

all of your scenarios, have a great amount of credibility.
It will be interesting, to see, what happens.

I only disagree with you, it is a minor amount. It could possible be $19.00 per point, over next 38 years, which by the way, is solely based on what I know on November 25,2003.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Without this knowledge, we are all only making assumptions based on personal experience and not fact.

Regardless of detailed statistical trended reports, Pam it is true. There is more availability for reservations at OKW than other resorts. Even it it's more mature members trying other DVC resorts, the demand is not equal. Call MS and talk with them yourself and see. It's not a false assumption.

Why not make some improvements? What's the harm?

a boardwalk owner, accused them of "STEALING" THEIR ROOM.

No way. Owners taking advantage of the 7 month window is not stealing. That word doesn't even belong on this forum unless it's items missing by the pools.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by Desperado
Why not make some improvements? What's the harm?
No way. Owners taking advantage of the 7 month window is not stealing. That word doesn't even belong on this forum unless it's items missing by the pools.

Needed improvements is a seperate discussion from the start of this thread. That might be something interesting to start up.

I'm glad to see that you don't agree that members are "stealing" from other members. Notions like that are what I dislike hearing among members.

Anecdotal evidence may suggest that getting reservations at OKW is easier than getting reservations at other the resorts. However, we can't answer the "why" unless we know what is truly happening. We are all just guessing. It could be that BWV is actually filled up with BWV members and OKW is available because members have traded out and Disney has not booked the rooms. They release them to members and push forward the "sell" date. If this is the scenario, be careful what you wish for. If we eliminate trading then when BWV is full, quite possibly with your own members, you would have to turn to cash reservations elsewhere.

 

[MiaSRN62]

but sometimes I have to be in FL at a certain time for business and there have been times that I have been stuck with OKW.

Deep, someone on another thread made a similar statement to this in regards to BWV. I believe the words they used were "would have to settle for BW" and you came at them, singing the praises of BWV. Now you go and say the same thing about OKW (aka "get stuck with OKW")??? I thought we had that settled on the other thread---it's very frustrating to hear you say this all the time. I guess, just about as frustrating as you find MS telling you "BW is full but there is availability at OKW"

I don't feel it's the same as HH or Vero either because OKW is on WDW property.

What? This doesn't make sense. The logic heard most often is buy where you plan to stay most often. It would apply to OKW as well.

Sorry if this didn't make sense to you Desperado, but what I feel "buy where you plan to stay most often" means is be prepared to stay at your home resort should nothing else be available. Meaning ....be content and happy and satisfied with your home resort. I don't feel that statement is suggesting anyone shouldn't TRY to stay at another DVC resort should they choose. I feel this is a wide-open option at the 7 month window and people should feel free to stay wherever their little heart would be content during that trip if they can.
To further clarify my remark about Vero and HH points----yes, people should be PREPARED (if it comes to that) to stay at their home. But I mentioned OKW as being a WDW site, in that, if an OKW owner trades to BW it is still onsite. Meaning, that OKW villa will not be occupied by that OKW owner because they will be staying at BWV. Both resorts are still on WDW property. But, if a Vero or HH owner trades to BWV, the vacant villa left by that member (had they booked their home resort), is miles away---not on WDW property. That was the only difference I was trying to make. Sorry if you didn't get it.

OKW can be compared to a retirement community, where kids are welcome, but not too much, we're not going to build the amenities and pool play equipment that they would really enjoy like other family communities

I'm sorry....but this statement is ridiculous imho ?!? My kids LOVE OKW---there is plenty of kids there and plenty for kids to do ! Are you really familiar with OKW Desperado or are you just pulling this stuff out of a bag ? Just because there is no pool slide, hardly makes it a retirement community. And don't even make a comment about the golf course because my teen son loves to play golf with my dh. In fact, lots of kids can enjoy golf. Besides that, there is volleyball, tennis, basketball, game rooms, a kid's pool, a sandy playground and an additional playground in the Turltle Pond area. One can rent bikes.....boats.......this resort is very kid-friendly and to compare it to a retirement community is way off-base.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by PamOKW
I'm glad to see that you don't agree that members are "stealing" from other members. Notions like that are what I dislike hearing among members.

Yep.

Anecdotal evidence may suggest that getting reservations at OKW is easier than getting reservations at other the resorts.

Agreed. There really is more availability. Improving the resort could help better balance demand. More information? Sure, DVC can conduct additional survying and information to determine true causes and then act on that information, that's sounds great.

Improving OKW and adding some pool amenities? Seems like a great idea who's time has come.

 

[Jimbo]

Why not make some improvements? What's the harm?

By improvements, I assume you mean a slide. DVC surveyed OKW owners about adding a slide a few years back, and it was resoundingly rejected. I remember it being something like 60% against. In other words, OKW owners thought that the change would not be an improvement at all. Since then, someone posted a poll here about adding a slide, and 60% of the responders voted against it. I see a trend!

It's simple - there isn't any way every DVC resort can appeal to every DVC owner. So people stay at the ones that do appeal to them, and avoid the ones that don't. A sensible strategy is to own points at resorts that do appeal to you, so that you can be sure not to get "stuck" at a resort you don't like.

And short notice ressies, which I would define as less than 7 months, are always going to be somewhat chancey.

 

[DrTomorrow]

This Just In!

The owners of the Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa have voted Disney out as Management! Yes, even before it has opened, SSR&S owners want to make sure that no one from any of the "older" resorts can stay at a resort so conveniently close to DTD, PI and WE - and that only SSR&S owners can use the Rock Ridge Pool and Slide. Said new SSR&S owner I. M. Fictional; "While we don't want any of those other resort owners using our brand-spankin' new facilities, it's them OKWers that we're worried about - them and their rock-bottom dues!"

No word on the rumor that non-SSR&S owners will be required to wear blindfolds during the nightly PI fireworks....

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

 

[crisi]

Numbers geek time....

A statistical trend analysis based off historical numbers shows OKW dues surpassing BWV dues in 2010.

(note, statistical confidence is not high, there are not enough points).

 

[MiaSRN62]

"While we don't want any of those other resort owners using our brand-spankin' new facilities, it's them OKWers that we're worried about - them and their rock-bottom dues!"

LOL Dr ! A refreshing breath of humor