Why no Monorail

teachallday

Mouseketeer
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
221
The last time I was at Walt Disney World Epcot was about to open and I took the Monorail over (even though the park wasn't open yet).

Now I am about to go back to Disney World and looking forward to the Monorail ride to the parks. SO . . .

Why doesn't the monorail go to the other new parks? :confused3

It seems like it is a fabulous transportation tool, why isn't it being used for the other parks? I can sort of understand why Hollywood Studios doesn't have it, since it didn't really start as a Disney World park, but Animal Kingdom should have been added to the Monorail system.
 
The last time I was at Walt Disney World Epcot was about to open and I took the Monorail over (even though the park wasn't open yet).

Now I am about to go back to Disney World and looking forward to the Monorail ride to the parks. SO . . .

Why doesn't the monorail go to the other new parks? :confused3

It seems like it is a fabulous transportation tool, why isn't it being used for the other parks? I can sort of understand why Hollywood Studios doesn't have it, since it didn't really start as a Disney World park, but Animal Kingdom should have been added to the Monorail system.

From previous responses I've read, it's just way too expensive to build it. Millions and millions of dollars that Disney just doesn't have, or would rather spend elsewhere.
 
I'm not sure if you realize just how large WDW is.
Way too expensive.
 
I wonder what Walt would say to that. I suspect he would have built the tracks to cover all the parks.

Considering the amount that they spend on Busses to get people from place to place, the cost of the Monorail would eventually pay for itself. So, I do not buy the excuse that it would be too much money.
 

For starters the monorail is very expensive to maintain. And to build it originally I think from what I heard from a long time monorail captain...cost something like $1 million a mile back in the 70's. Now imagine inflation. It is a very expensive form of transportation and very limited to how many passengers it can transport because you can only have so many trains on the track at one time. The most I have seen at one time is 3 on the resort track.

It would also increase transportation time because obviously you can't build more stations at the two parks with monorail service which means they would have to build hub stations for guests to transfer or have the monorails switch tracks which would backlog the system. Plus the busses move faster than the monorails. I think top speed on the monorail is something like 35-40 MPH.

So no I don't think expanding the monorail is a very feasible idea.
 
So, I love the monorail. It was my childhood dream to drive those trains. And I did. That being said, I don't think a monorail expansion would be what people dream it to be.


One can throw the money argument around for expanding the monorail... and while very true (it would cost more than DAK itself to build a monorail from TTC to DAK), the real reason is logistics.

A monorail is a fixed guideway based system. With a fixed guideway system comes many limitations. The first and foremost being that they are not flexible. Now, while that might be okay in a city environment, where you have a hub-and-spoke layout, and traffic is dispursed. But at Disney, a flexible and dynamic system is needed. Like it or not, only buses can provide that needed flexibility. Disney property is just not laid out to handle a fixed guideway system. You'd have to transfer (possibly more than once) to get where you need to go, and even then, there would be multiple stops. Ultimately, it would be a hassle, and take much longer. Where's the magic in that?

So... let's take a look at a few common misconceptions.

Monorails hold more people than buses.
Well, per unit, perhaps. However, when you take a look at the operation at say, the Magic Kingdom... during a park exit, you have one Express train coming into the station every 4 minutes. That train can hold about 250-300 people, depending on who is working the station, and the number of bulky strollers (True, the "crush" capacity is 360, but you will never get that many people on board).

The bus depot however, has 18 bus stops. Buses move very quickly in and out of that depot during the park exit. On average, you'll have a bus coming in every 30 seconds during an exit. So, during that same 4 minute period, you'll have 8 buses. Each bus can handle 70 guests (the low-floors can handle up to 90, but like the monorail, you'll never get that many). So together, the buses will handle almost double what the monorail can handle. Plus, they can always add more buses. In fact, when the monorail reaches capacity, it's the buses that end up helping them out. (You can only add so many trains before it actually starts to hinder performance.)

The cost of the monorail will eventually pay for itself
(Before I get into this... let's not forget that transportation is a non-revenue generating part of Walt Disney World)
As mentioned above, the initial cost of building or expanding a monorail system is astronomical. I believe Vegas (which runs essentially a newer version of the Disney trains) ran into $88m per mile, $17m per 4-car train, plus station costs. I can also tell you maintenance costs for those trains is also quite expensive. And something tells me the electric costs are not cheap either. (I will say, it's a shame they don't have onboard batteries... they could really reduce energy consumption by harnessing the energy created by the dynamic braking system, similar to how a hybrid car works)

On the flip side, you could purchase 90 buses for the cost of one six car monorail train. The roads are already in place. Maintenance is fairly simple in comparison. And today's buses get decent mileage compared to buses just 10-15 years ago, further reducing thier operating costs. Buses also have a very long life span... The oldest one currently in daily service is nearly 30 years old, and has probably close to 2.5-3 million miles on her odometer.

Monorails are so convenient!
As mentioned above, monorails are fixed into where they go. No changing that. So you basically have two options when designing a route for it to travel. Multiple lines with multiple switch points... or a single line with many stops.

Here's a hint about the average Disney guest. They want to get from Point A to Point B, directly and non-stop. No transfers. In fact, because the average guest does not come from a public transit type area, the concept of transfers baffles many people. Going from MK to Epcot requires a transfer. To us, it sounds easy as pie. But people do not like it. When given the choice of a transfer, or a few extra stops, people generally prefer the few stops. There are actually people who would rather have a direct bus from GF to Epcot, rather than switch monorails at the TTC.

A bus on the other hand requires no transfers to get to the major destinations. It's direct, and for some, non-stop. In addition, the buses can go off route if need be. They can also go where they are needed. It's not always possible to predict where guests will want to go and when. A flexible system can handle these unknowns with ease.

Let's not get into if a monorail has a technical difficulty. The whole line is shut down. With buses, the only one affected is the bus with the issue. And even then, a replacement bus can be dispatched to take care of the situation.


So at any rate...

The bottom line though is that while the monorail certainly has that cool factor, it's the buses that are truly the workhorse. People come to WDW for the parks. It only makes sense to get them there as efficiently as possible, so that they may enjoy the parks.

Well now... I stopped by to give you my two cents and I ended up with $1.54's worth. Oh well. :)
 
I wonder what Walt would say to that. I suspect he would have built the tracks to cover all the parks.
Myth. Walt Disney was not half as stupid as many folks would make him out to be.
 
t is a fabulous transportation tool, why isn't it being used for the other parks? I can sort of understand why Hollywood Studios doesn't have it, since it didn't really start as a Disney World park

Umm, yeah, it did start off as a Disney World park.

Monorails are too expensive, millions upon millions of dollars per mile. A comprehensive monorail system would cost in the $500-$700M range. For something that brings in zero revenue.
 
I was going to say, "Well perhaps not zero revenue ... " but thought better about it: I think it is possible that there aren't a significant number of people who would visit a significant amount of times more often, or spend a significant amount of money extra, exclusively based on the monorail reaching more of the theme parks. This is mostly a fan concern, and fans are mostly either intending to visit regardless, or simply using the absence of the monorail at two of the theme parks as a rationalization for their (rational and personal) decision to curtail their spending based on personal factors (typically, over-saturation). While there surely are fans who do care, and will have their contribution to revenues affected by this, the calculation would probably never reach break-even -- I wouldn't be surprised if that contribution to revenues never even comes close to the additional operating costs of running a monorail instead of business (think about why they run busses from MK to MK resorts longer, each evening, than they run the monorail), much less ever start to pay back the development and construction costs of new monorail track and new monorail trains.

Reality is such a downer, sometimes. :rotfl:
 
I can sort of understand why Hollywood Studios doesn't have it, since it didn't really start as a Disney World park, but Animal Kingdom should have been added to the Monorail system.

The studios really did start as a Disney World park. Disney licensed the MGM name and the rights to use some of their intellectual property but Disney was responsible for the park.
 
I wonder what Walt would say to that. I suspect he would have built the tracks to cover all the parks.

Considering the amount that they spend on Busses to get people from place to place, the cost of the Monorail would eventually pay for itself. So, I do not buy the excuse that it would be too much money.

Given that the cost of extending the monorail all over the property would likely result in non-revenue-generating costs equal to what it cost to build Animal Kingdom, what makes you think Walt would have done that? Do you really think Walt would have looked around and said, "No, people don't want a whole new park with new things to do and new rides to ride that will keep them on property even longer and increase our revenue-generating capability. No, not at all. They want more of the same transportation they already have! So let's give that to them!" I don't think so, not for one second.

On what calculations are you basing your assertion that the monorail would "eventually pay for itself"?
 
I can sort of understand why Hollywood Studios doesn't have it, since it didn't really start as a Disney World park, but Animal Kingdom should have been added to the Monorail system.

It seems like someone who has such intimate knowledge of what Walt Disney would have done, would know that Hollywood Studios has always been a Disney park.
 
Obviously money was the real reason for why it was not built, but the more I think about it, it just would not seem "right" to get off the futuristic monerails and then enter Animal Kingdom. It just would not fit in with the theme, I believe.
 
Disney could, my opinion should, have positioned AKL to provide some direct access to the AK. A boat, automated rail or even just a walkway.

I know some people think the monorail is zero revenue. Disney is able to charge 4, close to 5* pricing for resorts that are only rated 3*. Proximity, and "special" transportation to theme parks is one of the factors that allows for that pricing. Direct boat service from the GF-to MK works, it doesn't have to be monorail.
 
More - general - information on monorail costs here http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html

And, Chip 'n Dale Express - thank you for that clear, Disney-specific explanation!

teachallday said:
I can sort of understand why Hollywood Studios doesn't have it, since it didn't really start as a Disney World park,
Is, always has been, always will be, a Disney park. Conceived by Disney, built by Disney, owned by Disney, operated by Disney...
 
I guess I go against the mold. My family and I always split our days, and I try to keep it logical. So we typically group our days based on transportation. We might start our day in MK, then take the Monorail to Epcot for the afternoon. In fact when we would stay off property, I'd park at Epcot, and take the Monrail over to MK.

Our Dks love the ride, and I believe it's much safer for DD3 than on the buses. Many of the buses fly around property, and I don't feel comfortable with DD3 not being in her car seat. Where as the Monorail provides me with a better comfort level.

The other piece about the buses is their inconsistent nature. We've all read the threads where people complain about the buses. While I understand that the buses have the ability to be flexible, I have not personally experienced this.

My example was in 2005 when my family and I stayed at Port Orleans River Country. One late afternoon we went to get the bus to go for dinner. We had an hour and a half to make it to our reservations in the MK. We waited over 30 minutes before I placed a call to ask when a bus would be there. I was assured that one would be there shortly. However, It was another 45 minutes later and another call to transportation before a bus showed up. We later learned that because we were not at the main bus stop at PO Riverside, that when the bus would fill up, it would go direct to the park. If this is the case, then the flexible system should put more buses on to accomodate.

If that had been a Monorail, I would know that one is coming every 4 minutes or so, and that they are just full.

As was previously stated about the Monorail, they could be converted to collect electricity from the breaking. This would reduce the operating costs for the trains. However, I do realize that it would do nothing for the crazy price tag mentioned in a few other posts.
 
It cost Vegas 87.5 Million per mile of track when they built a monorail in early 2000.

Personally I'd rather take a bus instead of ticket/resort price increase! Could you IMAGINE!
 
If that had been a Monorail, I would know that one is coming every 4 minutes or so, and that they are just full.

What makes you think that? Monorails have a top speed of about 45 mph, I do believe. It takes 10 minutes to go by monorail from TTC to Epcot. It would take far longer to go to the outlying resorts such as Port Orleans *Riverside*. I would guess it would take 25 minutes at the very least. Then there's the issue of number of trains. To have a train arriving every 4 minutes (assuming a 50 minute loop...25 min there + 25 min back), you'd need 12 trains on that loop. JUST for that resort. Multiply that by the other resorts. Then multiply that times...what, $17 or $18 million per train. I can't even fathom what all the track would cost. :scared1:

I simply don't see how this is economically feasible or even prudent.
 
I simply don't see how this is economically feasible or even prudent.


Tara

I realize from a business standpoint it makes no sense to put in more Monorails. Simply the buses are more feasable. No arguement there at all. However, if I had to pick my transportation, then I would pick Monorail over bus.

Also I relaized that the 4 mintues per train would not be feasable at PO Riverside. My main point is that the buses are not always as flexible as we are lead to believe.

Reality is that I no longer rely on the buses. We rent a car instead for the convience. Good thing I get free rental days from my work travel. My love of trains is why we go to Epcot, and transfer to MK.
 
Flexibility is not a monorail's strong point. Busses definitely have the advantage, there, as well.
 














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