why no DVC online booking??

[dvc_john]

The question isn't "is it doable?" It certainly is. The question is "how long will it take DVC to get a return on the investment?"

Actually, the question I WAS answering was "is it doable?", as several previous posters in this and other threads have indicated how difficult it would be.
For the return on investment, I assume DVC explored this before announcing is last years annual meetings that an on-line system was in development!
And I doubt even Hilton, let alone DVC, has had a chance to properly evaluate the Hilton system, as it has been operational only a short time. I only used it myself for the first time a few weeks ago.
FWIW, I worked in IT development for over 30 years, and designed and wrote a reservations system among other things.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

It is an expensive operation to set up.

 

[jarestel]

It is an expensive operation to set up.

I'm curious how you would have the data to declare this. Do you work for DVC? I'm not challenging your post, just asking if your statement is a strongly worded opinion or if you have information about DVC the rest of don't have?

How much do you think it would cost?

 

[DebbieB]

DVC has been promising online reservations since 2000. What other reason than cost could there be not to develop a system in 5 years?

 

[Beach_Bound9]

I'm curious how you would have the data to declare this. Do you work for DVC? I'm not challenging your post, just asking if your statement is a strongly worded opinion or if you have information about DVC the rest of don't have?

How much do you think it would cost?

One of my best friends is a consultant who puts teams togethers to go in and assess, develop and impliment these types of automated systems. I have also automated insurance company processing to provide electronic claims transfer instead of manual claims entry and coordinated those operations with a call center restructuring. Creating an online reservation system to follow the DVC timeshare rules and track points would need to be a customized system, there are models for reservation systems using cash purchases that can be purchased for start up companies. But this system given the unique point structure and point tracking requirements would need to be a custom build. Whether or not others have access to these types of implementations and the $$ required I cannot say. I'm making the judgement regarding the expense based on these sources of information and experiences, without specific knowledge to the labor DVC requires to man thier call center, specific language thier current system is written in and whether it can be modified or an entirely new system would need to be written. Typically, developing a new system from a customer entry perspective is desired rather than attempting to modify an exsisting call representative based system.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

DVC has been promising online reservations since 2000. What other reason than cost could there be not to develop a system in 5 years?

Thank you. It seems rather obvious that it requires a large upfront capital investment in infrastructure to possibly offset projected labor costs in the future. I do not see automated online reservations being a key selling factor for new sales. The advantage would be to reduce current expenses and potentially satisfy current owners (who have already given thier money for the next 20+ years based on the current system).

 

[Beach_Bound9]

They don't do it because it would cost a lot, and that would be passed on to us in the way of dues.

On a typical day there are approximately 80 to 100 cast members manning the phone lines. If their pay plus benefits plus employer paid taxes comes to $15/hour (that's probably about a $10/hour salary), you're talking about $1350.00 an hour, or almost $11,000/8-hour day. Throw in 52 weekends at $22,000 each and you've got almost $1-million, 200 thousand a year just to cover the weekends. Stay open till midnight, that adds almost another 30 hours a week, or 1560 hours a year, or another $2 million annually.

On top of that add expenses (electricity, water, etc)

During very busy times MS will have about 120 people answering the phones. These would be the typical 11-month/7-month windows to the popular holiday times.

When speaking to members, everyone I've spoken with always assumed that MS might just be something like 8-10 people. That's off by a factor of 10.

Great analysis Caskbill, thanks for sharing. If anyone here has demonstrated knowledge of what programming like this would take, it is certainly someone who is sharing the wonderful software program that you have been. I didn't realize how large the call center operations were. I'm sure there needs to be a calculation in there of how much call volume would be reduced by an online system. Obviously us discussion board visitors are regular computer users, perhaps that is not typical or representative of the larger DVC owner population. I don't have any info on that. It would be interesting to learn about the number of owners in different age groups to better understand the demographic. Given the high rates Disney charges for computer access at the resorts, and the lack of information on the members website, they don't seem to be particularly strong in catering to actve computer users IMO.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

DVC has been promising online reservations since 2000. What other reason than cost could there be not to develop a system in 5 years?

In IT planning, there are three major issues: cost, prioritization, and integration.

The definition of cost is obvious -- it takes money to pay analysts, programmers, and database specialist; then it takes more money for computer hardware, backup and contingency systems, operations, user assistance, and application maintenance.

The definition of prioritization makes sense when you think about finite resources and an "infinite" number of IT requests. For example, this year, what was a higher priority for Disney? Implementing the systems to handle Magical Express, which depends heavily on bar-code scanning and database-driven logistics? Or providing a secondary method for DVC members to manage points and make reservations? (Yes, it's always possible to increase the IT staff with permanent or temporary staff, but there's a price in both quality and cost.)

Finally, integration means getting systems to work with each other -- and for new systems to work with old systems. It's often difficult to graft a significant new system onto an older system that what never designed with then new system in mind. The DVC system was obviously designed with the idea that Member Services cast members would sit in a room full of terminals during business hours. Any new DVC member system will need to use the same member and room inventory databases. The system would have to be designed so that it's impossible for an MS CM and a DVC member on a Web browser to simultaneously book the same inventory. That would mean having two different interfaces into the same applications, or it could mean junking the current Member Services applications and replacing everything with new Web-based applications.

 

[PeterPanFanWDW]

That being said, I am also surprized that you can only contact MS M-F 9am - 5:30pm (exception Thursday). With no online booking, I am surprized they are not open 7am to Midnight, and that the are not open on the weekends! WOW!

I have always been frustrated by MS hours. It never fails that I'm on some exchange over a 3-day holiday weekend, something is going wrong and there is no one out there to help me. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more to get some hours on the weekend. Or push the close time during the week to later -- even 8 pm would be helpful. I can't always call from work.

PPF

 

[jarestel]

One of my best friends is a consultant who puts teams togethers to go in and assess, develop and impliment these types of automated systems. I have also automated insurance company processing to provide electronic claims transfer instead of manual claims entry and coordinated those operations with a call center restructuring. Creating an online reservation system to follow the DVC timeshare rules and track points would need to be a customized system, there are models for reservation systems using cash purchases that can be purchased for start up companies. But this system given the unique point structure and point tracking requirements would need to be a custom build. Whether or not others have access to these types of implementations and the $$ required I cannot say. I'm making the judgement regarding the expense based on these sources of information and experiences, without specific knowledge to the labor DVC requires to man thier call center, specific language thier current system is written in and whether it can be modified or an entirely new system would need to be written. Typically, developing a new system from a customer entry perspective is desired rather than attempting to modify an exsisting call representative based system.

beach, I don't know if I agree that a whole new system needs to be developed. The code that does all of the work that you mention already exists, MS uses it every day. It's already written and tested, so we know it works. So there's no need to re-invent the wheel. The only piece that doesn't currently exist is the web-based member interface that would be used for displaying and collecting member information. Web pages are typically neither hard nor expensive to create/maintain. ( current DVC website not-withstanding , LOL! )

At the risk of boring the non-techies, generally data and interface functions are independent of one another in a software system, so changing or creating a new user interface ( web based user interface in this case ) doesn't require re-writing the data engine. ( existing underlying code that the current MS user interface uses for retrieving data from the database, or updating the database )

There may be reasons DVC doesn't want to have a web based system, but expense and difficulty are probably not at the top of that list.

 

[Scotch]

I have always been frustrated by MS hours. It never fails that I'm on some exchange over a 3-day holiday weekend, something is going wrong and there is no one out there to help me. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more to get some hours on the weekend. Or push the close time during the week to later -- even 8 pm would be helpful. I can't always call from work.

PPF

Ditto. We were owners of Hilton timeshares for many years -- our only other points based timeshare -- and we were used to having later evening hours ('til 9 or 10 pm weekdays) plus either one or both weekends to phone a reservation agent. When we first joined DVC and I learned of the hours I was really surprised to learn how limited MS hours were.

 

[Carrie25]

beach, I don't know if I agree that a whole new system needs to be developed. The code that does all of the work that you mention already exists, MS uses it every day. It's already written and tested, so we know it works. So there's no need to re-invent the wheel. The only piece that doesn't currently exist is the web-based member interface that would be used for displaying and collecting member information. Web pages are typically neither hard nor expensive to create/maintain. ( current DVC website not-withstanding , LOL! )

At the risk of boring the non-techies, generally data and interface functions are independent of one another in a software system, so changing or creating a new user interface ( web based user interface in this case ) doesn't require re-writing the data engine. ( existing underlying code that the current MS user interface uses for retrieving data from the database, or updating the database )

There may be reasons DVC doesn't want to have a web based system, but expense and difficulty are probably not at the top of that list.

Hi using my wifes account again. Completely agreed. A web based interface shouldn't be that big a deal. Possible lack of an interface could be due to the non-profit motive of our maintainence agreement. We would be reducing our own costs if we reduced headcount at the call center and booked more cheaply online in the best case scenario that alot of folks use online booking. If a lot of folks don't use online booking and a system is built members eat the cost in maintainance. DVD doesn't get more profitable from trying to do online booking. Perhaps that contributes to the lack of initiative.

 

[lllovell]

Hi using my wifes account again. Completely agreed. A web based interface shouldn't be that big a deal. Possible lack of an interface could be due to the non-profit motive of our maintainence agreement. We would be reducing our own costs if we reduced headcount at the call center and booked more cheaply online in the best case scenario that alot of folks use online booking. If a lot of folks don't use online booking and a system is built members eat the cost in maintainance. DVD doesn't get more profitable from trying to do online booking. Perhaps that contributes to the lack of initiative.

I understand that DIS DVCers are a different breed, but I do feel like MOST people these days are becoming quite used to making their own travel plans and are extremely comfortable with using a computer based system to check availability, point, etc would GREATLY cut down on the number of calls to MS that are just for information purposes only. It is my understanding that the travel agent industry has been greatly damaged by the ability of the common man to book their own vacations and enough must be doing it to impact this industry so much (including the airlines that no longer pay travel agents because they KNOW we will search out our own best deals, so why pay someone to bring them business when the average traveler will do the leg work themselves now).

If they don't want the headaches of dealing with the "general public" and its computer knowledge or lack there of, why not simply make the system they currently have available to us for information purposes only? I am sure there are already controls in effect that would allow me to look but not change/touch the info there. (certainly it has "levels" in place for management to be able to do certain things and no one else - I can't imagine a software program in place now where there aren't "levels" of access) I would KILL to be able to plan trips on the weekends or late at night based on availability. I would LOVE to be able to check and make sure the points I needed banked are actually showing banked without having to call back a day or two later (recently did a transfer from someone into my account and then a banking and I was not comfortable until I had called and verified my balances with MS a few days later). Even if we could go through the "planning" steps BEFORE calling MS, can you imagine the time saved? How often do you call simply to check availability? How often do we call about bookkeeping points information? How many times do we have to call in multiple to make future travel plans when the times we want might not be available?

I, for one, would be quite happy just being able to get data and still calling MS for ressies (again, if the big concern is the complexity of the DVC ressie system and its rules).

Laura

 

[jarestel]

DVD doesn't get more profitable from trying to do online booking. Perhaps that contributes to the lack of initiative.

Excellent points!

 

[sagwanamu]

Online reservation system is very doable. Like some DISer mentioned, it is about cost. I am not sure how many members were in 2000, but I don't think there were enough to cover millions dollars of up-front-cost and millions dollars more to maintain. Now? I don't think under 100K members are enough to justify the cost.

Some people may argue that they can cut the MS when implementing the online reservation, but remember that they have to set up (or increase what they have now) tech-support MS to handle on-line reservation questions.

As SSR comes to its full capacity, and DVC expands with more resorts, I am sure on-line reservation will come to DVC's priority task and we will see online serveration system that we can book vacation and check our account any time without worrying about 9-5 MS business hour.

 

[jarestel]

Online reservation system is very doable. Like some DISer mentioned, it is about cost. I am not sure how many members were in 2000, but I don't think there were enough to cover millions dollars of up-front-cost and millions dollars more to maintain. Now? I don't think under 100K members are enough to justify the cost.

Is your millions and millions of $$$ cost estimate based on doing a similar project somewhere? I'd be interested in knowing how you arrived at that figure.

 

[rkdahl]

Is your millions and millions of $$$ cost estimate based on doing a similar project somewhere? I'd be interested in knowing how you arrived at that figure.

Based on work I do in the IT field I would not expect a $1-3 million investment over several years to be out of line for a system such as this. I find it interesting to read threads like these and see the wide variety of opinions on IT development topics. People try to equate a spreadsheet tracking program with an online, dynamic, secure real time inventory management system. There is no comparison.

Figure a senior programmer at $150K/yr or more internal cost, maybe 3 or 4 of those, then add in all the security features required (and there are a lot), another 40% of the total cost, then the online totally redundant servers and bandwidth required, because none of us want this to ever be down do we? And then there is the development systems required, and the extensive testing necessary maybe 4-6 months, then the beta testing, then the production debugging, and integrating it with all the other disney.com stuff, etc, etc. And since htis is mission critical there can be no bugs! They wish.....

Poof...there goes 2-3 years and lots and lots of dollars. They could have done it sooner and much faster but they are also working on 25 other things at the same time. Someone in management is always making tradeoffs of those valuable programming skills and equipment usage.

So...we grin and bear it. I really look forward to it too! Hope it reduces our MS staffing costs as expected. And best of all, I can log in at 3am when I can't sleep and create a fun vacation for the family all online!

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Hmmm seems to me the east coast hours would favor those not in the east or central timezones. You get the opportunity to handle your business after work in the UK and before work on the west coast. Even the central people get a little before work time. While waiting for the online system it would be nice if DVC did little robbing Peter to pay Paul. Stagger the CM's hours so there would be some on duty until 7PM EST at least one night a week while giving them shorter hours on others. The sum total of hours could be the same and the recording could be changed to suggest to callers that contact earlier in the day would yield smaller wait times.

As for the development of the system. I think if you wanted a full implementation of the rules this system would be more expensive than not. I suspect that building from the existing system(s) isn't a very viable alternative because it doesn't sound like those systems are efficient even for dedicated users to use. Slapping a web interface on a poorly designed system would just lead to more problems. By "sounds like" I mean just by seeing comments posted on this board and also listening to MS as they try to meet whatever my request is.

 

[RobDoc]

... While waiting for the online system it would be nice if DVC did little robbing Peter to pay Paul. Stagger the CM's hours so there would be some on duty until 7PM EST at least one night a week while giving them shorter hours on others. ...

MS is already open until 7:00pm on Thursday evenings (and has been for quite some time).

Current hours to contact MS are M-T-W-F from 9:00am until 5:30pm and Thursdays from 9:00am until 7:00pm.

The hours have been changed since 1991- when MS closed for a lunch break, but eventually they were changed to remain open theu the noon hours and extended until 7pm on Thursdays.

 

[lisareniff]

With the push to sell DVC in Calif. they may need to increase their evening hours to satisfy the west coast owners. If I was a CA owner I would be quite upset that MS hours ended at 2:30pm (PST)

I'm in agreement with lllovell. I would be quite content with the ability to view my account, reservations, and availability of resorts.