Why it still acceptable....

[The Orchid]

I seem to remember some here-not necessarily on this thread- saying that if their child saw someone smoking it would be ok for the child to tell that person, they stink and lots of DISsers thought that would be fine. Is it ok now for a child to tell someone they're fat?

I don't smoke and I do not enjoy being around smokers. But I will tell you this. I am generally opposed to spanking (though I have in rare occasions). Had my daughter told an adult (or even another child) that they stunk for any reason, her fanny would have been so red she wouldn't have sat down for a week! I find it appalling that anybody would find that acceptable. I would be ok if she were near somebody who was smoking, if she were unable to move away from the smoke herself, if she politely asked the person to put the cigarette out. But to be rude? I would be pissed beyond belief. I am amazed that people find that to be ok.

That reminds me if a thread from years ago where somebody went through a fast food drive through with their kids The person who filled their order got it wrong and the kids were commenting about what an idiot the girl was for making the mistake. That was years ago and my blood still boils for the fact the father thought it was perfectly ok for his small children to pass such nasty judgment on somebody just because a mistake was made. Grrr! I find it disgusting when children or adults are so intolerant. I have often hoped those kids grew up to work in fast food. Let them take the abuse from people and see how it feels! Ugh!

 

[The Orchid]

If someone makes a bad choice that is fine, I don't begrudge them that. I just don't like the disconnect between what someone says and what they do. If you want to be healthy be healthy. If you don't don't, but take responsibility for it, don't blame anyone.

First of all, I agree, you're not a bigot. You seem to have nothing against people who are overweight, but rather you seem overzealous in your attempt to change the world and cure it of obesity. Your problem is that you are a little too idealistic and perhaps somewhat insensitive and judgmental. But bigot...no, I don't see that. I am a lesbian and a pagan, I know what bigots are, and you aren't. At least regarding this issue!

That aside, I don't think that a person should be judged because they regret that they do something that they shouldn't do. I believe we all regret things about ourselves....things that we can change if we were motivated enough. Most of us do change some of the things we dislike. For example, I used to have horrid mood swings on my prednisone. I decided I didn't want to be that way, went into therapy and learned ways to cope with the drug. I've come a very long way with that. Some would say that is a pretty big accomplishment! There are other things I would like to change about myself as well, but one at a time! It takes a lot of energy, motivation and determination to make major life changes, especially if you are facing challenges such as fighting health issues, dealing with a sick child, facing a divorce, coping with depression or working in a stressful job. I know people who are facing many of these. None of us have the energy to tackle everything at once. That isn't to say that we shouldn't regret the things we don't feel capable of changing a this moment. Perhaps the overweight person complaining she hates being fat while eating a twinkie is working on even bigger things and has expended all her motivation on that. Perhaps she has a gambling addiction and is working hard on that, or maybe she has serious anger control issues and is taking on the task of managing that problem. Maybe she's quitting smoking. You just don't know what is on a person's plate (besides the cheese potatoes ).

 

[FireDancer]

It makes no sense to you because you don't do it. You probably know people who do (possibly even friends who, when you're their guest and they complain about their weight, you admit you tend to criticize). Emotional eating isn't merely physical. Gotta agree with the poster pointing out your lack of compassion.

Perhaps my tell it how I feel does come off as a lack of compassion, but it is just meant as how I feel. I am a no holds barred person when I speak about anything I have an opinion on.

It sounds like people are of the impression that I walk around judging people for what they look like. To step back for a second, that is not true. I don't pick my friends based on their weight or sex or sexuality or anything else. I do however, when the topic comes up, state exactly how I feel. This is a thread about weight. I didn't open a blank page and start spouting my beliefs. I didn't take a thread about what kind of car do you drive and start talking about my views on health. I opened a thread about the correlation to weight and celebrity and weight in general and I responded with how I feel about it. To take that and expand it to the assumption that I walk around shopping malls pointing at fat people and preaching is a bit far fetched.

After I state my opinion, I was directly asked things or accused of things or addressed. I responded to those posts with my opinions pertaining to those posts. When a dialog on a subject is opened I don't see any reason to answer dishonestly. I will admit that I make my decisions in life and my choices on logic and not on emotion. I have found in business and in life the better long term decisions are usually made that way.

Orchid, I understand what you are saying. I do not walk around judging people. It is not exactly fare to take how I post in a thread about a specific subject and then expand that to include day to day life. Had I started a thread about why I think every fat person has no will power then you could make the assumption that I spout my feeling in that manner in every day life. To expand the fact I share my opinion on a specific subject in a thread pertaining to that specific subject doesn't mean that I base every decision in life on that subject. But I do appreciate the dialog and on this and the other thread we both posted in you seem a logical person who I would very much like to sit down and speak with regarding issues. Even if we don't agree on something healthy conversation is always good.

 

[The Orchid]

Orchid, I understand what you are saying. I do not walk around judging people. It is not exactly fare to take how I post in a thread about a specific subject and then expand that to include day to day life. Had I started a thread about why I think every fat person has no will power then you could make the assumption that I spout my feeling in that manner in every day life. To expand the fact I share my opinion on a specific subject in a thread pertaining to that specific subject doesn't mean that I base every decision in life on that subject. I think that was a bit of a leap.

Ugh, the thread is long, and I don't want to go back and search for things to quote, but if I recall correctly, didn't you say that if you were at an overweight friend's home for dinner and they complain about being overweight, yet make unhealthy food choices that you point it out to them?

 

[FireDancer]

Ugh, the thread is long, and I don't want to go back and search for things to quote, but if I recall correctly, didn't you say that if you were at an overweight friend's home for dinner and they complain about being overweight, yet make unhealthy food choices that you point it out to them?

I believe the quote you are talking about is:

The vast majority of my friends fall into these categories and I don't judge them but I notice them and if I hear something like "I wish I wasn't so fat" while they are enjoying a cupcake sitting on the porch asking their kids to bring them something from the fridge I will point out their BS.

Again in this situation I am responding to something, not bringing it up. I am not shy about my beliefs but I never bring them up unless the subject is broached. This is true of most things, sports, politics, religion, and health. I am more than willing to state my opinion but don't start the conversation. Perhaps it didn't come across that way. If the same person were sitting there doing the same thing I would not care, it is just when a statement and action don't match up I notice. This is not only true of health issues. If someone wearing a Liverpool shirt stated they were huge fans of Manchester United I would equally question their lack of consistency. I guess this is where my if you want to do it do it comes in. But I would never broach the subject unless it is started by someone else.

I'm not trying to argue, I merely state my opinion and listen to yours. I realize my opinion is different than most people posting here but at the same time in some forums I would be in the majority. Like I said, nothing is directed at any specific person and it certainly isn't directed at you. While people may not agree with my stance on this, and they are free to do so, that doesn't mean that on 99 other subjects we don't see eye to eye on all 99 of them. That is why I feel vindicated in my ability to express my opinion I guess, as you should with yours. I don't base my value of anyone on any single trait, not even their health. Perhaps that is because I can differentiate between judging a person and judging behavior. If someone thinks they are the same so be it, we can just agree to disagree on that particular subject.

Good night.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Honugirl: I understand and believe that your disease causes cravings. However, you can still crave something salty or sweet without eating something unhealthy. If you crave something sweet an apple or just about any other piece of fruit is full of natural sugar, it doesn't have to be cupcakes. If you crave somthing salty a pickle is not a bad choice. Making a meal with pickled turnips or a nice cod fillet with some capers can get something salty that is better than overly salted canned soups. I would bet, however, that many people who claim to have medical issues don't. Or, if they have medical issues, they can be corrected better with a lifestyle change than drugs. You very well may not fall in that category and there are people who will need to medicate for life. I just know that it is not always the case. Sometimes it really is just lack of will power and laziness.



See, I have no problem with being short and don't want to be tall. I am not the one who comes on here and wonders why it is that only tall people can be models and movie stars are supposed to be 6 feet tall just like they are supposed to be thin. I have no issue with not fitting the ideal and don't complain about it on the boards.



I'm sorry about your daughter but eating for comfort is just silly. Food is fuel that is used to keep you alive, not a friend. Emotional eating just makes no sense to me. Food is something that is necessary to sustain life. I would rather something healthy that betters my health than something that tastes better but lowers my health thresh hold. My cousin died 4 months after birth and my uncle turned to running. His doctor told him that it is normal to need an outlet for the sorrow and it is better to chose something beneficial than something dangerous like drinking or smoking. And I do feel the same way about alcohol and drugs, just don't do them. No one is a drug addict before they do their first line of coke or first shot of heroin. If you know you have an addictive personality just don't do it. My dad was a gambling addict so I don't gamble period. That way, I know I can't get addicted to it. I also believe that kicking an addiction is just a matter or will power. If one single solitary human being can quite smoking or drinking or whatever than all of us can, we just have to want to bad enough.



The world is full of good and bad information. If you go to trusted sources and use a little common sense an adult with a functioning brain will be able to come to the right conclusions. Fat is bad for you, no fat is good for you. The actual answer, in the correct form and correct amount fat is beneficial. It is usually a matter of scale. Having a fillet of salmon is a better way to get proper fat than eating Crisco with a spoon.

The food pyramid is wrong for a start of why is it balanced when you are expected to eat 50% starch? Starch turns to glucose when digested so go eat 50% suger is what is being pushed at people, the body mass index was devised by a belgian polymath to study social physics and used by lazy doctors to "show" people there health by looking at them and not actually listening to them. Eat senibly ignore the rubbish the media puts out and enjoy life.

 

[PaulaSB12]

I thank you and don't mean to come off as abrasive. I admit that when I am passionate about something I am passionate about it and maybe when read instead of heard it doesn't come off the same. Kind of like how sarcasm often comes off cheeky or even conceited when read instead of heard. I guess those people who say inflection and body language are as important as what is said knew what they were talking about.



This is exactly 100% a point I tried to make earlier. If someone needs a release of tension there are healthier options than binge eating. Maybe it isn't running, someone earlier played a sport. There are circumstances when going a run while upset would be silly, yes. For example, if I were recovering from an injury and the run or bike would harm me more than it would do me good, I would consider it silly yes. 100%

I also love when the bigot word is thrown around. It shows a complete lack of intelligence when it is misused. I do not have an "irrational hatred" of anyone. Not fat people or gay people or people of other origins or races. I can have an opposing view on something without being a bigot. I am not trying to take the rights away from anyone or trying to say I am more of a human that anyone else. I am a libertarian at heart. The heart of my argument has never been that my way is correct or even than eating healthy is the only way to go. Everything I have stated has been about the lack or responsibility. If someone makes a bad choice that is fine, I don't begrudge them that. I just don't like the disconnect between what someone says and what they do. If you want to be healthy be healthy. If you don't don't, but take responsibility for it, don't blame anyone. That includes the tabloids which is where this all stated.

Some people instead of looking at something they don't agree with and calmly and rationally pointing out the specifics they don't agree with pick up a wide fence brush to pain a pin head.

I have only made my opinion heard on a behavior, not any person. I am willing to base my opinions on logic rather than emotion. People can disagree with my logic with other logic and while we don't see eye to eye neither of us are bigots. I would say neither of us is even right or wrong, opposite opinions can just be opposite without being right or wrong.

I think you are not being abrasive just plain old sanctimonious, and yes calling someone silly for not following what you think is good in the middle of what has to be the worst thing for a parent to go through is bigoted.

 

[Mickey Fliers]

I think you are not being abrasive just plain old sanctimonious, and yes calling someone silly for not following what you think is good in the middle of what has to be the worst thing for a parent to go through is bigoted.

I don't see where Firedancer called anyone "silly" for not following what he does.

Firedancer-I totally understand what you are trying to say. I don't think you are judging anyone by their size, but are willing to point out their hypocrisy if you see it. If someone says "I wish I didn't have cancer" while lighting a cigarette, I would point out the hypocrisy. If someone says "I wish I was thinner" while eating a cupcake, I would see the hypocrisy there as well.

The word Bigot is being thrown out a bit too much around here. I certainly have seen nothing that would indicate that Firedancer is a bigot. I have not seen him spout any intolerance or hatred. In fact, he has said on several occasions that he appreciates this dialogue. He is handling himself way better than I would if I were called such a nasty word!

 

[rie'smom]

I guess you are missing the point here. There are some people who have medical conditions that make it harder for them to lose weight, sometimes they eat healthy and diet and yet there is that medical condition that affects them. So are those people addicted to being overweight? I would love for you to tell a person like that that the reason they are fat is because they are addicted to food. Imagine the responses you would get.

Apparently, you missed my point. I posted about people with addictions. I'm hypothyroid, so I know about medical reasons for weight gain. Because I began to gain weight and feel sluggish, I went to the doctor and got meds.

I also know about eating addictions from the other end of the spectrum. When I was 30, I was hospitalized for anorexia. My weight plummeted to 88 pounds. At 5'4 1/2 inches, I was a walking skeleton. Through therapy over the course of 2 years, I got up to a healthy weight. The anorexia screwed up my thyroid though, so I had to get on meds to keep my weight in check.

If anyone is having weight problems at any end of the spectrum, I think therapy is a help. There's help out there for anyone who wants it. Is it easy? Heck no! Anyone with an addiction is using their "drug of choice" to make the pain go away. Until you get to the root of the problem and deal with it, the addiction will control you. With therapy, you can control the addiction. It takes a firm commitment and true desire to change.

 

[TriMom]

My general overview of this thread:

Someone pointed out that it seems cruel that through the media, society can so quickly judge a celebrity because of a weight gain. Then it was , in my opinion, correctly pointed out that society, again through the media, has a warped view of acceptable weight. That the "ideal" is not realistic or even necessarily healthy.

Which is true. I spent about 2 minutes googling the report, and I can't find it, so you can either believe me or not. A study was published that in the categories of underweight, healthy weight, overweight, and obese, that those in the underweight category has as many co morbidity factors as those who are obese.

The we moved on to an entirely different subject, which was how to lose weight and and personal actions and feelings were criticized. I can easily see how feelings were hurt.

I believe in speaking the truth. But you can speak truth in several different ways. You can speak from experience, you can speak from condemnation, you can speak truth judgmentally, you can speak truth with compassion, you can speak with understanding. Truth is important, but no one will hear what you have to say if they feel belittled.

Fire dancer - this is the only part of my post specifically for you. You pointed out that you can't understand why anyone would emotionally eat. So I thought, as a discussion, you would like to know why anyone would emotionally eat.

It's not a simple as believing that food is only fuel. It is easy for you to understand that food is only fuel, because you don't have a food addiction.
You mentioned that your father had a problem with gambling, and he chose gambling over your family. I am sure that it hurt. In response to that- you never gamble, which is a good idea for you. I personally could go to Vegas for the weekend - spend my allotted $500 and be done with it. I wouldn't do that because I get no enjoyment form gambling, but it wouldn't be a downfall for me. In the same way that you can take or leave a cupcake. A cupcake is not a downfall for you.
Now imagine that your father did decide that he wanted to recover from gambling. And gambling is a great example here, because it is the action that give the pleasure, much in the same way that the action of eating gives pleasure.
Back to the recovering gambler. A gambler says "I'm done." But then you put that gambler in a casino for 8 hours. You give him $1500 - that he has to carry in his pocket. Then you tell him that he has to gamble with $100 of that. No more, no less. And he has to do this every day. When this person fails, is it because of a lack of will power or is it because the situation is stacked against him? Overall can this gambler adapt to the situation, sure. But is the day or two when he blows the entire $1500 a sign that he doesn't care about changing?
This is just to point out that while healthy eating is very black and white to you. It is not so black and white to others. That to a lot of people, it is not as simple as don't eat it.

Orchid - this is totally unrelated to the anything else in this thread, but I wanted to let you know that hearing that you are on prednisone, and have found a way to control your wild mood swings has giving me more hope than I have had in a long time. My DH is on ever increasing amounts of prednisone, and I am the recipient of the wild mood swings. He is working on behavior changes, and I am proud of him. But I had no idea if anyone had success with it. So thank you!

 

[FireDancer]

The food pyramid is wrong for a start of why is it balanced when you are expected to eat 50% starch? Starch turns to glucose when digested so go eat 50% suger is what is being pushed at people, the body mass index was devised by a belgian polymath to study social physics and used by lazy doctors to "show" people there health by looking at them and not actually listening to them. Eat senibly ignore the rubbish the media puts out and enjoy life.

The food pyramid is a disaster, that is true. I choose to do my own research and come to my own conclusions. The food pyramid is a product of wheeling and dealing between the FDA and lobbyists. I am always skeptical of information on health that comes out of the federal government or from studies funded by drug companies. There is good, easily accessible information out there, you just have to work at finding it and make educating yourself on the issue a priority (if you care about it of course). I don't want to be accused of stating that everyone should spend 8 hour a day doing health research if they don't want to, that seems to be the exact kind of spin that my posts have been subject to.

And Mickey Fliers, that you for your comments. I know people like to throw around the bigot word but anyone with any intelligence knows when someone is or isn't a bigot. It is like anyone who throws out the racist word when having a conversation about race.

 

[FireDancer]

Fire dancer - this is the only part of my post specifically for you. You pointed out that you can't understand why anyone would emotionally eat. So I thought, as a discussion, you would like to know why anyone would emotionally eat.

It's not a simple as believing that food is only fuel. It is easy for you to understand that food is only fuel, because you don't have a food addiction.
You mentioned that your father had a problem with gambling, and he chose gambling over your family. I am sure that it hurt. In response to that- you never gamble, which is a good idea for you. I personally could go to Vegas for the weekend - spend my allotted $500 and be done with it. I wouldn't do that because I get no enjoyment form gambling, but it wouldn't be a downfall for me. In the same way that you can take or leave a cupcake. A cupcake is not a downfall for you.
Now imagine that your father did decide that he wanted to recover from gambling. And gambling is a great example here, because it is the action that give the pleasure, much in the same way that the action of eating gives pleasure.
Back to the recovering gambler. A gambler says "I'm done." But then you put that gambler in a casino for 8 hours. You give him $1500 - that he has to carry in his pocket. Then you tell him that he has to gamble with $100 of that. No more, no less. And he has to do this every day. When this person fails, is it because of a lack of will power or is it because the situation is stacked against him? Overall can this gambler adapt to the situation, sure. But is the day or two when he blows the entire $1500 a sign that he doesn't care about changing?
This is just to point out that while healthy eating is very black and white to you. It is not so black and white to others. That to a lot of people, it is not as simple as don't eat it.

All good points, better than most of the boiler plate name calling that gets thrown about. You have a very valid view on addiction. It is slightly different than mine but as I tried to state all along I welcome differing opinions.

 

[waltskids]

I'm in good shape. I watch what I eat and exercise. I don't make fun of overweight people nor do I think it's acceptable to do so.
But on the other hand.....Americans in general are becoming sooooo out of shape.
I don't think that should be "normalized" either. Just because the majority of people are overweight doesn't mean that being fit shouldn't be the goal.
....if that makes any sense.
So while I'm not for criticizing people....I'm also against the push for the plus size models in advertising. Plus size shouldn't be the goal.

I think this is a great post! While DH and I come from families where the majority are overweight (for health reasons as well as just plain eating too much), we have made a committment to our children to live a healthy lifestyle, which includes making good food choices. We don't keep junk food in the house or ever reward good beahvior with food. Even in WDW, we won't get the dining plan b/c it is simply too much food with the dessert included. We do love going out to eat (and like our coctails too, lol) but we realize that we need to make good choices since we don't have good genes (type 2 diabetes on both sides of family, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc.). We may still inherit these things, but eating healthier than our parents has definitely helped. We will teach our children to never criticize either, but I do not want them to think that overweight is the 'norm'.

 

[The Orchid]

Orchid - this is totally unrelated to the anything else in this thread, but I wanted to let you know that hearing that you are on prednisone, and have found a way to control your wild mood swings has giving me more hope than I have had in a long time. My DH is on ever increasing amounts of prednisone, and I am the recipient of the wild mood swings. He is working on behavior changes, and I am proud of him. But I had no idea if anyone had success with it. So thank you!

Those mood swings sure can be tough. It's amazing just how brutal prednisone can be. It's a wonderful sign that your husband is working on his behavior. Recognizing that the prednisone is controlling you is the first step towards fighting it. It really IS possible, not easy, and beleive me, I do fail at times. But I am tons better than I used to be. So know he can do it! I sent you a PM telling you some of my methods for fighting the drug. Perhaps that can help your husband. Good luck!