Why I HATE Southwest Airlines...

[LisaNJ25]

I wouldn't care about the kid next to me, at five most kids are pretty self-suficcient with life, but don't expect me to pour their juice, wipe their face or otherwise entertain them. If the oxygen masks fell, I'd stick the mask over the kids face, but that's about as far as it goes. Last thing I want is some freak parent who can't be responsible enough to do what needs to be done so their family can seat together screaming that I "touched" or was otherwise inappropriate with their kid.

Anne

Anne

Anyone else glad they either don't fly at all or fly on SW with comments like this?

 

[seashoreCM]

I . Last thing I want is some freak parent who can't be responsible enough to do what needs to be done so their family can seat together screaming that I "touched" or was otherwise inappropriate with their kid.ne

Not all parents have computers or can get to the airport 3 hours in advance. Their homebound Magical Express bus may have been full forcing them to wait for the next. They might be on a late flight coming in for connection too. Doing what needs to be done includes making an honest attempt to preboard and asking others to switch seats. Also doing what needs to be done includes getting up every now and then to visit separated children, passing things back and forth, reaching over to wipe the kid's face, etc. Doing what needs to be done does not include overt refraining from flying Southwest.

 

[graygables]

I have flown SWA several times and I have been concerned as a pooh-sized individual since there is NO WAY I could spring for an extra seat on short notice. It takes months for me to save up in the first place. I've read the policy and have been very apprehensive since I've heard stories that one could be randomly selected by a GA regardless of the fact you are on your layover or whatnot and didn't have a 2nd seat on your first leg.

I finally asked about it and was reassured (by several TAs/GAs) that if the flight is not close to full, they aren't supposed to bother with "the policy" since it makes for a lot of headaches (passenger dissatisfaction, billing & refund costs, etc), only if it's "looking full". If that's the case, the extra seat is sold and if there are empty seats on takeoff, then you get your refund. They are protecting the extra purchased seat from stand-bys, too. I was also told that GAs (at least the ones I dealt with) do see if a child is flying with the COS and take that into account. Most GAs really don't want a scene.

It does sound to me like a personal issue with the GA (unless there was a second leg that was full, I didn't catch that) and it certainly should be addressed w/ SWA. They need to be aware that they have lost a customer, have gained plenty of negative press (being on this MB for starters), not to mention the costs involved with the billing and refund.

I understand the need for the policy, I don't understand how it is randomly enforced.

 

[pirateparrot]

I was wondering the same thing about the extra seat. I can see some passengers (especially if you're near the front)- really being belligerant w/ a COS about having the "extra" seat. Still embarassing for the COS.

I am a plus sized women. I can fit in my seat w/ the armrests down and I do not need an extender. However, my MIL is within 10 pounds of me and cannot get the seat belt to come even close. So, standards on weight and such wouldn't work because of how different people are shaped. I do have to say I am always a nervous wreck about this happening w/ SW. Would I buy an extra seat ahead of time-- NO. But I fear that they get a bit ridiculous w/ this policy. As there is truly no standards for the policy and it is inconsistent. It seems as though this area can be too grey. The policy should be firmly set forth then. What exactly would constitute a COS?

I am a COS by SWA's standard and always purchase 2 seats. They give you a voucher to place on the seat next to you saying that it is reserved so just put that on the seat. You really don't have a problem with other passengers getting mad about the extra seat because trust me, no one wants to share that seat with you.

Also as part of the COS policy, SWA allows you to pre-board so I can usually get a great seat/seats often in the front row with tons of leg room. You can ask for a blue sleeve at the desk or just line up in the pre-board line and there are no questions asked. In over 15 flights I have never had an instance wher ethe plane was 100% full and I did not receive my refund. I just wish SWA would make the refunds automatic instead of having to call to get it.

The only other issues that I have with buying an extra seat is that their online system does not allow the 2 seat purchase to be processed properly so some manual work has to be done at the airport. Often the curbside checkin staff does not know how to fix it in the computer so it has to be fixed at the gate. Also their system will not allow you to get FF credits for 2 seats on the same flight but since I have always gotten a refund, I would not get the credit anyway.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Why would the passenger who was NOT being the nuisance (I hestitate to use the word, but I think in this situation the true definition of the word applies) be the one to have to switch seats, unless of course they were being offered an upgrade.

If I was seated next to a COS, darn straight I'm not giving up my seat to accomodate them. They were the ones who can't fit into their seat, and didn't have the forethought or were simply too selfish to buy a second seat. Why should I in essence be punished?

Anne

Sorry!!

A typo in that....

What I meant was, I think its wrong not to charge a COS for the 2nd seat that they were taking from someone.

 

[ducklite]

Anyone else glad they either don't fly at all or fly on SW with comments like this?

Since when does buying a seat on an airplane make you responsible for babysitting as well?

Anne

 

[justcruisin]

There's a difference between babysitting and being helpful to a child. It's not the child's fault ---

Just curious, ducklite, do you have kids?

I'll continue to fly SW, leave my house in time to get to the airport 2 hours ahead of time, but, if by chance, we get delayed enroute, I truly hope there is someone who'll either sacrifice and switch seats or sacrifice a bit of their sleep and help my child.

WWJD?

 

[Disneyjosh229]

There's a difference between babysitting and being helpful to a child. It's not the child's fault ---

Just curious, ducklite, do you have kids?

I'll continue to fly SW, leave my house in time to get to the airport 2 hours ahead of time, but, if by chance, we get delayed enroute, I truly hope there is someone who'll either sacrifice and switch seats or sacrifice a bit of their sleep and help my child.

WWJD?

Bottom line is, its not ducklites responsibilty to take care of your kids. If you were that woried about who took care of your chilid, you wouldn't fly SW, because there is the possibility that you may get split up. IMO, if you child is over 5 years old, they should be independent enough to sit in their seat, and do an activity (coloring, etc..) without the assistance of the person sitting next to them.

Anybody know how the COS issue got turned into a debate over children? Just wondering....

 

[justcruisin]

So, what if I fly Delta and the seats assignments get changed ... now I'm not an irresponsible parent, would it now be acceptable to help?

Agreed, completely off topic.

 

[CarolA]

This thread has a life of it's own!!! LOL!

I see both sides. However, I will say that on the "main line" airlines if you get there early you are unlikely to wind up seperated from your kid. They don't book all seats in advance, there are alos a lot of late changes (folks like me upgrading etc.) Now on ALL airlines is you do the last minute dash to the gate your seats may be gone. I know on DL it's 15 minutes in advance or your seats can be gone. The GA and FA are not always helpful then espcially if it was NOT due to a connection. (If it's a connection they KNOW you are coming) I saw a family in Hartford CT denied boarding when they arrived 5 minutes before the plane was leaving. They were now spending the day on standby with kiddies... not good, but it was really thier own fault. (They told the GA they were late becasue they didn't want to take JR out of school..... well next time book a later flight)

Now as for the 5 year old... I have set next to 5 year olds where the parent was on the other side and thought that "Precious" was so nice that we should allow him to terriorize me and destroy the plane. Personally in that case, I wish mom had been a few rows back. I would have dealt with "precious"


As for the COS I won't budge. My armrest stays down no matter what... (and yes I have had people ask to raise it!) I have also set next to folks in First Class who pretty much admitted that they buy those seats just so they will fit. It's an expense and probably more then the two coach seats!

 

[ducklite]

There's a difference between babysitting and being helpful to a child. It's not the child's fault ---

Just curious, ducklite, do you have kids?

I'll continue to fly SW, leave my house in time to get to the airport 2 hours ahead of time, but, if by chance, we get delayed enroute, I truly hope there is someone who'll either sacrifice and switch seats or sacrifice a bit of their sleep and help my child.

WWJD?

Yes, I have a child. I regularly checked my seat assignments after I booked to make sure they hadn't changed. When I was unable to get seats together, I had them change my flight. I wouldn't have thought of inconveniencing someone else for something that wasn't their problem or concern.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

So, what if I fly Delta and the seats assignments get changed ... now I'm not an irresponsible parent, would it now be acceptable to help?

Agreed, completely off topic.

In this case you should ask the carrier to make alternate flight arrangements. I was in that situation several times in the past, and that's what I did.

Anne

 

[robsmom]

I have never been split from my child on SWA. I do on-line boarding passes on the way out and if possible at the hotel for the flight back. if i can't do that to get an A i get to the airport really really early. worse i ever got was a B and that is fine for together in the back. I find that they preboard real young children. I also have never booked connecting flights with my child. If at all possible we will avoid destinations that require a connection for at least a few more years. I think SWA is great and that if you plan accordingly there is no reason to ask people to move. I guess if things were beyond my control, i would switch flights rather than board late and split up. If someone offered to move great. I personally have moved several time to accomodate people but never on SWA. I probably would have more sympothy on swa then for the people who book seats on other airlines knowing the flight is crowded and they are not with their kid and then need someone to switch.

 

[Lewisc]

I may not have mentioned that my comments applied only to the PARTICULAR situation she chronicled for her return trip. Sorry if I was unclear about this.

But the behavior this same poster chronicled for her inbound trip is the exact reason why, at this for this person, an exception shouldn't have been granted. This person needs to get in the habit of purchasing a second seat, flying another airline or losing weight.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

But the behavior this same poster chronicled for her inbound trip is the exact reason why, at this for this person, an exception shouldn't have been granted. This person needs to get in the habit of purchasing a second seat, flying another airline or losing weight.

I would agree with this if the OP were (for example) 500 lbs. She has been allowed to travel in a regular seat and according to her she does "fit in a regular seat". If I were 500 lbs I would think "there's no way I will fit in a regular seat, I will call and ask what to do." But if I were more like 250 lbs. I might not question that the seat would accomodate me. Many men are 250 lbs and I would think the seat would be large enough. Again, I don't know about the exact size restrictions because I have never been in that particular situation before. The problem is inconsistency, subjective standards and lack of prior information.

In my experience, enforcing rules based on subjective information ie: visual cues and perception of airline employees is extremely difficult. The problem with subjective standards is that a 250 lb person may not be seen as a COS by one FA but would be considered a COS by another. This will always be much more difficult than enforcing rules based on objective standards ie: if you need an extender, you must pay for an extra seat, if you are over 300 lbs. you must pay for an extra seat, if you do not fit in a 17 (i think?) inch wide box without overspill, you must pay for an extra seat.

I don't know which would be best, but I have to emphasize that many "customers of size" as they are called, are not aware of the extra charge they may get. All customers should be informed, whether by a red message online or a customer service rep over the phone that "If you meet x criteria, you need an extra seat. Will any customers in your party be requiring an extra seat for this trip?" or "check here if anyone in your party meets x criteria and needs to purchase an extra seat due to size restrictions." Hidden charges are illegal. While I understand the need for this surcharge and do not dispute that it is important to enforce for the reasons many posters have stated here, I think we would all be happier if it were posted, explained or otherwise reinforced at the time of purchase instead of at a later time.

I am certain that the majority of COS will purchase an extra seat once they are aware they need to do so. Most would not want to inconvenience other people.

 

[Lewisc]

I would agree with this if the OP were (for example) 500 lbs. She has been allowed to travel in a regular seat and according to her she does "fit in a regular seat". If I were 500 lbs I would think "there's no way I will fit in a regular seat, I will call and ask what to do." But if I were more like 250 lbs.

I have no intention of asking OP her weight or size BUT she was honest enough to tell us she needs a seat belt extender and told the FA on the flight to MCO that she had to sit next to her child because she can't sit with the armrest down. My guess is she weighs more than 250 lbs.

Look at her followup posts in this thread in which she was honest in her description of what happened in the flight to MCO. She got to the airport late, after everyone else had boarded and the FA had to bribe passengers with drink coupons to switch seats because OP told the FA the arm rest had to be up for her to fit.

 

[jarestel]

But the behavior this same poster chronicled for her inbound trip is the exact reason why, at this for this person, an exception shouldn't have been granted. This person needs to get in the habit of purchasing a second seat, flying another airline or losing weight.

That does seem to be the prevailing point of view here. I guess enforcement of rules in situations that benefit nobody and solve no problems, just makes me a tad uncomfortable. If someone has an opportunity to do something decent for someone ( ie, notify the OP about the rule for future reference, but allow the rule to be waived on that particular trip since there were many open seats anyway ) but they choose to use the rule to beat someone over the head for no other reason than "it's the rule", or maybe for "revenge" because the OP got away with this on the inbound flight, it just seems a little harsh.

I totally agree the inbound flight was a different situation where application of the rule would have been appropriate.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I have no intention of asking OP her weight or size BUT she was honest enough to tell us she needs a seat belt extender and told the FA on the flight to MCO that she had to sit next to her child because she can't sit with the armrest down. My guess is she weighs more than 250 lbs.

Look at her followup posts in this thread in which she was honest in her description of what happened in the flight to MCO. She got to the airport late, after everyone else had boarded and the FA had to bribe passengers with drink coupons to switch seats because OP told the FA the arm rest had to be up for her to fit.

I totally agree with your point here. To be honest, I'm having a hard time envisioning what weight would fit into a seat or not. I'm not a "math" person.

And you're right- it inconvenienced a lot of other people who had already settled in their seats. No one wanted to move.

I'm thinking of that saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." When I bought my airline tickets, I never knew about these restrictions (never really thought about it I guess) so I just think it would have been easier on everyone if it were laid out for everyone at the time of purchase.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I would agree with this if the OP were (for example) 500 lbs. She has been allowed to travel in a regular seat and according to her she does "fit in a regular seat".

Actually, according to her, fitting in her own seat includes using part of her son's seat. Remember, he only uses half a seat, he's a little kid.

In my experience, enforcing rules based on subjective information ie: visual cues and perception of airline employees is extremely difficult. The problem with subjective standards is that a 250 lb person may not be seen as a COS by one FA but would be considered a COS by another. This will always be much more difficult than enforcing rules based on objective standards ie: if you need an extender, you must pay for an extra seat, if you are over 300 lbs. you must pay for an extra seat, if you do not fit in a 17 (i think?) inch wide box without overspill, you must pay for an extra seat.

The SOLE standard in effect is, if a passenger does not fit in a single seat with the armrests down, they are required to purchase an additional seat. Needing a seatbelt extender doesn't necessarily mean the passenger won't be able to fit in a single seat with the armrests down. Ditto for weighing any particular amount or above.

{quote]I don't know which would be best, but I have to emphasize that many "customers of size" as they are called, are not aware of the extra charge they may get. All customers should be informed, whether by a red message online or a customer service rep over the phone that "If you meet x criteria, you need an extra seat. Will any customers in your party be requiring an extra seat for this trip?" or "check here if anyone in your party meets x criteria and needs to purchase an extra seat due to size restrictions." Hidden charges are illegal. [/quote]

But the criteria can't be determined in advance. The rule, sure, but one 300 pound person will have an entirely different build than another person of the same weight. And it's NOT a hidden fee. While most, if not all, airlines have similar policies, only Southwest is so upfront about it.

 

[pospisil]

[/QUOTE] And it's NOT a hidden fee. While most, if not all, airlines have similar policies, only Southwest is so upfront about it.[/QUOTE]

I think it is, in a way, a hidden fee. I booked through a TA, but also researched prices on my own A LOT before booking. My TA didn't mention anything about the COS policy when I booked. If I had bought the tickets online, I wouldn't have seen anything about it while going through the purchasing procedure. I honestly didn't know anything about it at all until I read something about it in a thread on this board. Now, it IS written in plain English on the policy page of SW's site, but if I were buying a ticket there, I would read the rules about the fare itself, not the policy of the whole airline. I guess that's stupid on my part.

On SW's site, when you purchase tickets, there are links to go to policies about seniors, children/unaccompanied minors, and babies on board. Would it be too much of an inconvenience to them to put customers of size on the list? I wouldn't think a simple link would be too much to ask.