Why has society devalued engineering?

[KnightInShiningArmorDis92]

It seems like every time I turn around society is having problems with engineering.

Our roads and bridges are falling apart and our power grids are failing. Even some parts of our space program are struggling.

Have we as an society stopped aspiring to build an amazing future? Have we become afraid of getting our hands dirty?

Remember the optimism of the 70s.

Did the Apollo Moon missions lead to this optimism?

Why have we stopped aspiring to build that amazing future?

Have we become afraid of getting our hands dirty? Has the educational system turned youth off of learning STEM?

 

[smokeyblue]

Innovation doesn't happen overnight. The current corporate culture is geared towards what the balance sheet says at the end of each month. The long-term doesn't matter to shareholders.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Not sure it's devaluation, thing is the examples you are sharing are profoundly costly, also engineering is really hard and most people can't do it so it's almost mystical. Hopefully STEM initiatives will work and gather more kids to the fields : )
Not sure what happened in Texas was the result of a devaluation. IMO Texas was a natural disaster, much like the Subways flooding in NYC when hurricane Sandy blew through. No-one would ever have guessed Texas would ever endure such an odd event anymore than anyone up in NYC would have been prepared for Sandy. The subways in NYC filled with water during Sandy and Texas's grid failed because neither was made with the expectation that what happened would happen. This isn't a flaw in engineering IMO, it's a natural disaster because Texas doesn't normally have snow & NYC doesn't normally have CAT 1 hurricanes.
Going to space doesn't seem devalued. To me it seems interesting in general and likely necessary with the ongoing battle over satellites, we will be forced to send them further away so their integrity can be protected so that investment is pragmatic. Not sure about the idea of living out there though, but live & let live, if it gets gas in the tank so be it. The US is gathering steam for a new arm of the military with this so I suspect it's going to be a monumental public funds investment.
Walt Disney is more about an indulgence so a totally different category, the investment here is not public funds, it's a business model so decisions are based on a return on investment. They seem to be doing alright
Sort of think engineering is the creative bending of the world to meet a desired outcome but it is a very pricey sort of creativity so it makes sense there are a lot of discarded ideas scattered around. Personally, I don't necessarily think the fact ideas need to be discarded is the same as being devalued though.

Go engineers!

 

[MillauFr]

Innovation doesn't happen overnight. The current corporate culture is geared towards what the balance sheet says at the end of each month. The long-term doesn't matter to shareholders.

Maybe it depends on where you live. Not here in Seattle. Bezos took flack from Wall St. for years and the Amazon stock went nowhere because the Wall St. bean counters thought he was plowing way too much money into R&D. Of course our other company (Boeing) took Wall St.'s advice and cut Engineering to the bone and fired many senior staff because the accountants thought they were paid too much. Not a shock at all that it resulted in the 737 Max debacle. Never a good sign when you let the bean counters run the company. You need to let the crazy engineers like Musk and Jobs run the show. They tell Wall St. to pound sand.

 

[MillauFr]

I think we need China to show that it is passing the USA in space exploration. That will lead to a new Apollo program. Nothing gets congress to spend billions on space like a communist country catching up to us.

 

[Cheburashka]

It seems like every time I turn around society is having problems with engineering...Has the educational system turned youth off of learning STEM?

I lived through the winter power failure here in Texas and that was not an issue of engineering. It was an issue of economic priorities. Power plants chose not to winterize their equipment, because Texas has generally mild winters (although occasional hard freezes routinely occur- Texas isn't Florida- so they knew they were playing with fire). The potential for a catastrophic failure such as we had in February was already known, but was ignored. The same is true for Texas's separate power grid- it was a political and economic creation, not an accidental flaw in design. America (including Texas) has no problem engineering oil & gas, solar & wind energy, space exploration, new computer technology, etc.

Engineers are also paid and treated very well (my partner is one), so it's obvious that our society values engineering. By contrast, I'm a teacher and am paid and treated relatively poorly for what I do, so it's questionable how much society values my work. STEM subjects are heavily emphasized in schools today, probably more so than in past generations. What has actually been ditched from American classrooms is history and civics.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

The real problem with a "moon city" or a "mars colony" can be explained by antarctica.

There is still only 400-4000 people at any one time on Antarctica. And none are permanent residents. Why? Because the climate is inhospitable and nobody really wants to live there and we don't need any more people there. It is for that same reason that we aren't going to see colonies on the moon or mars of any appreciable size any time soon unless we find a rare element we've missed and that we need.

 

[Cheburashka]

I think we need China to show that it is passing the USA in space exploration. That will lead to a new Apollo program. Nothing gets congress to spend billions on space like a communist country catching up to us.

China is a communist country in name only. It's still a dictatorship, but communism isn't required for that. It's become the kind of country that the U.S. has a history of quietly accommodating for pragmatic reasons, and that's exactly what the U.S. is currently doing in relation to China. The cold war is over.

 

[tcufrog]

My DH is an engineer and he definitely isn't devalued. Even though he hasn't attended a single business class he makes a very good living starting and selling engineering/manufacturing companies.

 

[KnightInShiningArmorDis92]

I think we need China to show that it is passing the USA in space exploration. That will lead to a new Apollo program. Nothing gets congress to spend billions on space like a communist country catching up to us.

 

[Minniesgal]

It’s not engineering that’s devalued it’s cost cutting left right and center that leave projects completed on the cheap in less time than they should be constant pressure to cut corners from management

most international major companies are run by bean counters who don’t see the value in a project well run they see numbera on a Balance sheet

 

[kdonnel]

most international major companies are run by bean counters who don’t see the value in a project well run they see numbera on a Balance sheet

I think it is not even the bean counters, but instead Wall Street.

Publicly traded companies are so focused on the next quarter and showing Wall Street(or whatever exchange that trades their stock) how they are growing financially that any project that takes longer than 3 months to implement suffers greatly.

 

[Cadiewampus]

Maybe it depends on where you live. Not here in Seattle. Bezos took flack from Wall St. for years and the Amazon stock went nowhere because the Wall St. bean counters thought he was plowing way too much money into R&D. Of course our other company (Boeing) took Wall St.'s advice and cut Engineering to the bone and fired many senior staff because the accountants thought they were paid too much. Not a shock at all that it resulted in the 737 Max debacle. Never a good sign when you let the bean counters run the company. You need to let the crazy engineers like Musk and Jobs run the show. They tell Wall St. to pound sand.

Exactly in my line of business (electrical utilities) generally speaking its the engineering and safety departments you want to pitch a new idea or product to first before ever mentioning it to the purchasing folks.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I think we need China to show that it is passing the USA in space exploration. That will lead to a new Apollo program. Nothing gets congress to spend billions on space like a communist country catching up to us.

I suspect it's more the other way around, the US is the one to beat so other countries have a history of going broke trying to show us up for vanities sake. Historically, this ends badly for contenders but it sure makes an interesting race, the more pomp and circumstance the US throws into its wins the more difficult it is for the countless image conscious opponents to ignore. You can't keep losing and be better at the same time, quite the conundrum in the public arena.

I'm doubtful anything could derail US interest in space right now. There have been stories in the news about increasing adversarial interest in the satellites, which many things depend upon now so this realm needs to be defended in some way.

Best guess, Buzz Lightyear is going to be booming in the blink of an eye which suits me just fine, I adore Woody & Buzz and the gang.

 

[Kennywood]

Why? Because it's hard. (It's supposed to be.) But that means people would actually have to want to learn the things that make for a successful engineer. With the dumbing down of the American educational system and the demand for recognition and compensation for little or no effort, engineering is bound to suffer. Why learn anything of merit when you can demand $15/hour for low-skilled jobs or do nothing at all and earn even more via government handouts?

 

[peabody58]

Pic #3 in the '70's vision sure looks a lot like the WDW Starcruiser. So I guess some of it is coming true - virtually.

 

[MillauFr]

I suspect it's more the other way around, the US is the one to beat so other countries have a history of going broke trying to show us up for vanities sake.

Seems like everytime Xi makes some speech about beating the US in space NASA gets another $50B from congress. Eisenhower was generally reluctant to spend money on space. It was LBJ stirring up all kinds of fears that the Soviets would going to win the space race and then used those fears to lean on fellow Senators to increase NASA's budget. Even Kennedy was sold initially either. However LBJ was a master salesmen and is the reason why "Houston we have a problem" is part of the national lexicon. It could have just as easily been Canaveral we have a problem. The only reason they built the space operations center near Houston was because of LBJ.

 

[MillauFr]

This podcast is very interesting and details all of the political machinations behind the start of the space program...

Moonrise podcast: Lillian Cunningham’s historical account of America’s journey to the moon - Washington Post

 

[rigs32]

With the dumbing down of the American educational system and the demand for recognition and compensation for little or no effort, engineering is bound to suffer. Why learn anything of merit when you can demand $15/hour for low-skilled jobs or do nothing at all and earn even more via government handouts?

Adding on to that idea..... College and grad school aren't free. Think of how many people think poorly of those who take on student loan debt and/or struggle to pay that debt. Even though PhD programs often pay stipends, it's barely enough to live at the poverty level. Scholarships rarely cover tuition and living expenses.

 

[ahutton]

My son was born to be an engineer, he is hesitant because of the aggressive programs to go to school and the devaluation of the degree when you come out. He instead is looking at trade programs.

And as a Texan I don't know who thought a virtual inspection was sufficient for preparedness and maintenance of our grid. These storms are not that much of an anomoly