Why does one family's "honesty" have to try to ruin it for us?

[Rudy6]

Sorry to hear about it. Sounds like your little one know the best - she avoids the "brat".

 

[crisi]

I agree with that BUT I would add that if the child is still enjoying believing in the fantasy, at this young age there is no harm in it. No need to disappoint them in order to teach a life lesson. It will happen in time when the child is ready to accept that difference between fantasy and reality without disappointment. Now, if they are 16 and still believing and still have the life goal of becoming a magical fairy princess...that's a bit different but "magical fairy princess" is a perfectly acceptable "career" goal for a 6 yo girl, IMHO.

Developmentally, according to Mayo, children should usually distiguish fantasy from reality by five. If the OPs child at six was a young six, there is probably no harm in it. As a parent, if my kids continued in the believe that Mickey was real for much longer than six, I would start to get concerned about hitting their developmental milestones.

Kids can continue to believe in some things longer than others - they often develop the believe that all those mall Santas are just guys helping Santa out, but that there really is a Santa. This is actually a good sign for critical thinking - they are putting the evidence before them together in a fashion that makes sense.

Personally, I think all developmental milestones are bittersweet. I remember not understanding why everyone was so anxious to have their babies walk, since that was the point they stopped being babies and became toddlers. But the alternative, that your child NEVER walks, is horrible to contemplate. And often your kids don't hit them in the way you dream - my son got his first tooth while still in foster care in Korea, my daughter lost her first tooth at kindergarten.

I may be biased in this, as I was married to a man who had a problem distiguishing fantasy from reality - which qualifies as a mental illness - ruined my marriage and wrecked his life. So I think that this is really important for kids to get. And yes, at a young age because there are things that if you miss when you are supposed to get them, you never develop them.

 

[noodleknitter]

Very nicely said.

 

[brymolmom]

I read the original thread and I honestly don't think what this child did was that big of a deal It sounds like you and your DD don't like this child, and if that is how you feel, I would simply avoid inviting her over to play, maybe try to get together with the mother on your own or else meet at a public place like a park or restaurant.

It stinks that the child made those comments to your DD about the characters at WDW, but at age 6 it is not unexpected. If your child goes to school she will hear the same comments from her friends, so you can't really condemn a child for sharing her knowledge (because in fact, what she is saying IS true!). As far as not wanting to clean up---the rule at my house is we clean up after our guests. You wouldn't invite someone to dinner and then ask them to wash the dishes, would you? We feel the same way about our guests. Sometimes the parents will encourage their children to help pick up before they leave a play date, but other parents don't and I think that is fine. I would never discipline someone else's child in my home about something like cleaning up, especially if the parent was sitting right there and obviously has different child rearing values than you do.

JMTCW, from another perspective.

I'm with you - I had to re-read the original post to try to figure out why the younger child was 'banished' from playing with dd. I mean - yes, it does stink. But it also stinks when kids grab toys away from your kid or don't share, etc. But it is the truth so it's not like she was making things up to deliberately be harmful.

If you don't want this child (or the older child or mother, because, let's be realistic - chances are you won't get together nearly as much if it isn't a group activity) - involved with your family - that's a fine decision. But I, personally, wouldn't put this particular incident into that decision making process.

It's very tough for many adults I know to keep a secret - so it's not at all surprising to me that a 6 year old can't!

Good luck!

 

[emma'smom]

I've never seen a 3rd grade child not know that Santa and dressed up charactors were real, and I've taught for 25 years. Why on earth would anyone want an older child to look so foolish? Santa, and charactors are loved in the heart and in the head...they aren't real.

I think I'm glad your not my child's teacher...3rd grade is still considered early childhood...why spoil their fun? Who would think a child believing in Santa Clause made them "look foolish".

 

[TallyHo]

I think I'm glad your not my child's teacher...3rd grade is still considered early childhood...why spoil their fun? Who would think a child believing in Santa Clause made them "look foolish".

Huh? The other children would make fun of them, not me! Tell your kids what you want, but know that any 3rd grader ignorant enough to still believe in Santa would be made fun of. That is life in 3rd grade.

Early childhood is K and preschool. Not the elementary years.

 

[crisi]

My son is in first grade. Apparently, there was a first grader in his class that admitted a fondness for Bob the Builder. I am told my son did not participate in the teasing - which was relentless and cruel.

 

[TallyHo]

My son is in first grade. Apparently, there was a first grader in his class that admitted a fondness for Bob the Builder. I am told my son did not participate in the teasing - which was relentless and cruel.

Poor kid! What a kind young man you must be raising, though.

We had a new teacher in 2nd grade last year, fresh out of college, and she actually decorated her classroom in a Dora-ish manner. Bless her heart, she was devestated when the kids were so harsh about it!

 

[crisi]

Thanks, but it isn't me. Its his disposition - he is really empathic for a kid and always has been. When he left the baby room they were sad to get rid of him - he was the first fifteen month old that didn't step ON the other babies.....

 

[emma'smom]

Huh? The other children would make fun of them, not me! Tell your kids what you want, but know that any 3rd grader ignorant enough to still believe in Santa would be made fun of. That is life in 3rd grade.

Early childhood is K and preschool. Not the elementary years.

Not according to the laws of the state of Ohio and the Educational Standard's Board who set the content learning standards for 3rd grade. They come straight out of NAEYC (the National Organization for the Education of Young Children) and if you are a certified teacher you probably know that current HQT Ohio licenses are issued for PreK-3rd grade (and that the 1-8 certificate is not issued any longer). It is NAEYC who drives the licensure (and thus teaching) requirements for this license. Prek-3 is considered early childhood!

 

[TallyHo]

The State of Ohio may consider it to be early childhood, but the kids in third grade certainly don't, and they are the ones that will hassle other kids. The State and I disagree on many issues!

 

[hsmamato2]

I think some of the problem may be how we ,as parents nowadays sometimes make the mistake of trying to be the guardian of all info our kids get,how old they are, the content,etc. This is a relatively NEW thing,my moms parents didn't anguish about these things, I'll bet yours didn't either.
OP had the right to tell her kid what she wanted, as did her friend. Now this is the snag, if we,as a parent,tell our kid something blatantly untrue...(Mickey is real, santa is real) and then expect the rest of the world to fall in line,and make sure no one ever bursts our family story, then you'd have to lock your kids up!
Not saying it's wrong, just another perspective... A lot of times, our family values or beliefs are not held by our friends, and that SHOULD be ok... What OP,and many other parents tell their kids, isn't true, and we all know it. Just b/c another kid, who knows better, tells them the TRUTH,is no reason to be insulted. I'm a homeschooler, but I wouldn't consider keeping other kids viewpoints away from my kids,unless they totally agreed to go along with everything we said to them...
Kind of live and let live... BUT...this kid also sounds like a brat,and a bad match for your kiddo, so in that aspect, not such a good thing to "force" your kid to spend time with another child who's bringing her down...I don't spend time with people who bring me down, I wouldn't make my kid do it either...

 

[crisi]

Not saying it's wrong, just another perspective... A lot of times, our family values or beliefs are not held by our friends, and that SHOULD be ok... What OP,and many other parents tell their kids, isn't true, and we all know it. Just b/c another kid, who knows better, tells them the TRUTH,is no reason to be insulted. I'm a homeschooler, but I wouldn't consider keeping other kids viewpoints away from my kids,unless they totally agreed to go along with everything we said to them...

Truth is also very relative. Someone earlier mentioned a family that didn't do the Santa thing, but also didn't do religion. We aren't Christian. My kids are in K and 1st. That means their classmates have been exposing them to Christianity. I've had the "Some people believe Jesus was the son of God, but neither your father and I believe that is true. But we respect that belief in others" talk about seven times this year with my kids.....

Even if I chose homeschooling, I couldn't keep my kids from being exposed to Christianity, its just too pervasive in our culture. So our job is to figure out a way to instill our values, while respecting those of others.

 

[solgent]

I was raised in a loosely Jewish household and of course did not "believe" in Santa. I got in trouble for telling other children.

We love sharing folktales and myth and fantasy stories with our children, but if the issue comes up, we say that it is just made up. We encourage the children to marvel at the natural world, as we do, and at the power of people's imaginations over the centuries, as we do. Personally I think there's loads of "magic" there and I don't feel the need to blend those things by insisting that imaginary things are real.

We have repeatedly told the girls not to argue with anyone regarding beliefs. Unfortunately other children are not all taught the same, and my children have been told by classmates that they will go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. I suppose the classmates said this out of concern and love, but I still don't like it.

A couple of years ago we saw the movie Elf, and on our walk to school began singing a Christmas song. A woman passed us and commented that she liked hearing our song. My youngest asked her, "Do you believe in Santa?" The woman obviously thought that it was her duty to guard a child's innocence. She pressed her hand to her chest and said earnestly, "Yes, I do." We had both continued to walk our opposite paths, so she was a ways behind us at that point, but my daughter turned back and shouted, "It's just a man in a suit!" But I don't think the woman heard.

 

[noodleknitter]

A couple of years ago we saw the movie Elf, and on our walk to school began singing a Christmas song. A woman passed us and commented that she liked hearing our song. My youngest asked her, "Do you believe in Santa?" The woman obviously thought that it was her duty to guard a child's innocence. She pressed her hand to her chest and said earnestly, "Yes, I do." We had both continued to walk our opposite paths, so she was a ways behind us at that point, but my daughter turned back and shouted, "It's just a man in a suit!" But I don't think the woman heard.

How dare she ruin the magic for someone else! That is too funny!

I agree that there is so much wonder in the world that isn't "magic" but is so much better. Showing this to your children is a wonderful gift to them! This doesn't stifle the imagination but allows it to grow, IMHO.

 

[JKMJ441724]

Had a very close call today! I am casual friends with a woman and I really like her, and she has 2 dd the same ages as mine. Our older 2 get along GREAT, but the younger 2 (age 6) don't really like each other. My dd is very outgoing and sociable, but hers is very bossy and seems spoiled so my dd doesn't like playing with her.

We haven't seen them in a while and I called and invited the girls to join us on an outing and then playdate at my house. Older dd was thrilled, younger one was not. Although things seemed a bit strained, the younger 2 did spend time together and played a bit when we came back to my house.

Then DD comes in with a very sad face and says "She says that the characters at Disney are just people in costumes. Is that true?" DD6 is stil very much immersed in the Disney Magic and I have no desire to squash that anytime soon. I wasn't sure what to say, but looked at her and said "Well, what do you think?" Her answer, "I don't think that is true." So I hugged her and said, "I don't think so either". Not really outright lying! DD then whispered to me "She also said that her Dad told her he is Santa Claus, isn't that silly?" I hugged her tighter and said, "He is silly."

At this point the child came in and I just said, "I think you guys need to find something else to talk about, this is not an appropriate topic." I am pretty sure this family has been "honest" with their kids, but I wish they would stress that the kids shouldn't ruin it for those that don't feel that way. I know we have some differing religious beliefs that could get sticky also.

Should I talk to the mom? We are friendly and seem to have a lot in common, but this seems to be an issue that could come up again. They are Disney fans also. I know that the seeds of doubt are in DD's mind now, but I hope the magic will at least last through our next 2 trips!

I am not sure talking to them will do any good anyway because she doesn't seem to have much discipline/control of the youngest anyway. She refused to help my dd clean up at the end of the day and mom didn't do anything about it, while my dd was crying because "friend" wouldn't help clean up the mess she helped to make. I had to require her to help, and then she just picked up a few things and wandered into my older dd;s room and sat down. I ended up going back in and telling her she wasn't allowed in there and in my house she could either help clean up or go sit in my front hall until it was time to leave. She talked back to me. Mom was in the hall the whole time and never said anything. I felt really weird having to be "strict" with this kid when the Mom should have been, but I was pretty mad at the girl's attitude and the fact that she was leaving a mess for my dd to clean up, and that Mom wouldn't step up.

I really have no desire to be around her, nor does dd. But I like the Mom (except for this issue) and our 2 older ones are friends. I am really tempted next time to just invite the older one and if it comes up tell Mom that since younger one didn't help clean up and was disrespectful she is not welcome back. (BTW, Mom did ask her "Don't you want to help clean up so you can come back and play another time" and DD's answer was "NO". Mom just said, "OK" )


I am just so frustrated!

you can't tell a parent like this ANYTHING. And besides, telling a parent anything bad about their child (even if it's true/deserved) will lead to resentment.

 

[fan_of_small_world]

I just wanted to add a story about a wonderful class of fourth graders I was lucky enough to know. Back in the early 90's I had just graduated college and was working as a teacher assistant for fourth grade. There was a girl in one class who was from another country, had a disability (she had been born without one hand), and who was a bit "younger" acting than the other children. She still believed in Santa, which the others kids knew. NOT ONE other child "ruined" the story for her. They were very protective of her, let her continue believing, and didn't make fun of her. I was so proud of that class and it just made me so happy to know how kind they all were.

As to the previous poster who said that our kids might not come to us or believe us about drugs, etc. just because we let them enjoy Santa, the Tooth Fairy, etc. - oh, please! Many, many people have grown up with these stories and we didn't all rebel against our parents as teens just because they told us Santa was real. In fact, most of us turned into nice, upstanding members of our communities. Furthermore, most parents who let their kids believe the myths will follow those children's leads when they do question it. Like another poster said, most of us respond with something like, "Well, what do YOU think" and then take our cue from the child's response. If you choose not to participate in the myths, fine, just please don't assume that those of us who do are in for major trouble down the road. (Donning flame suit as needed!)

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) Tell your kids you have consulted the HIGHEST disney authority.
2) Me !
3) And I told you there
. . . is ONE Mickey
. . . is ONE Minnie
. . . is ONE Tinkerbelle
. . . are TWO Chips

 

[TallyHo]

fan of small world, you had a class of gems. Good for them!

 

[MomtoEmIs&Ow]

I soooo sympathize. I have triplets. At about 7 years old a neighborhood child told my dd that Santa is fake, as well as the Easter bunny, tooth fairy. We talked with her & she continued to believe in all the magic. I spoke with the girls mom who I am still very friendly with. She spoke with her daughter. She informed me that if her children ask she doesn't "lie" to them. We both respected the others way of raising our children. She explained to her daughter that we don't think our daughter is mature enough to handle the "truth". She and I had decided this was the best way of explaining why we have different opinions on the matter & thought she would feel grown up enough not to ruin any further for my daughter. The subject of Fairy tales never came up amongst the girls again to my knowledge. Then came a sleep over at that girls house. My mothers instinct told me not to let her go, but I was always told how over protective I am. (people still say that, however I now take that as a compliment) Now please pay attention. At the tender age of 7 1/2 the same girl told my daughter the facts of life. I don't just mean the falling in love stuff. I mean she knew what the male genitials were for and how it all happened!!!!! My daughter came home and was very quiet. When bed time came I lingered a little longer than usual in her room sensing something was wrong. (never dreaming), she began to cry. She was horrified that, that was something she would have to do someday to have a baby! I cried. I explained that it would not happen until her body grew up alot and that it is only painful if you do it before your body is ready. I still cannot believe I had that conversation with my daughter at that age. Then I had to explain to her not to tell her brothers about this. That they deserved to not be scared. That I was really sorry she had to learn about this stuff so young. I suggested she tried to forget about it, but if she ever thought about it and had questions to come to me or her dad with them. (not her friends.) I called the mother the next day.
Sometimes we think our kids can handle things, maybe they are capable of it, but just don't want to. Maybe sometimes this goes under "misery loves company".
I am so sorry you & your dd have to go through this whole thing.
Best of luck with letting your "mothers instinct" lead you.

A VERY similar thing happen to my DD at 7. Except she didn't hear " the blank(boy) goes into the blank (girl)" She got it without having to say that though. And we had to have the talk because of a girl at school! So I know how upsetting that 'talk' was.I feel for you that's for sure!

Lee