Why does one family's "honesty" have to try to ruin it for us?

[lovetoscrap]

Had a very close call today! I am casual friends with a woman and I really like her, and she has 2 dd the same ages as mine. Our older 2 get along GREAT, but the younger 2 (age 6) don't really like each other. My dd is very outgoing and sociable, but hers is very bossy and seems spoiled so my dd doesn't like playing with her.

We haven't seen them in a while and I called and invited the girls to join us on an outing and then playdate at my house. Older dd was thrilled, younger one was not. Although things seemed a bit strained, the younger 2 did spend time together and played a bit when we came back to my house.

Then DD comes in with a very sad face and says "She says that the characters at Disney are just people in costumes. Is that true?" DD6 is stil very much immersed in the Disney Magic and I have no desire to squash that anytime soon. I wasn't sure what to say, but looked at her and said "Well, what do you think?" Her answer, "I don't think that is true." So I hugged her and said, "I don't think so either". Not really outright lying! DD then whispered to me "She also said that her Dad told her he is Santa Claus, isn't that silly?" I hugged her tighter and said, "He is silly."

At this point the child came in and I just said, "I think you guys need to find something else to talk about, this is not an appropriate topic." I am pretty sure this family has been "honest" with their kids, but I wish they would stress that the kids shouldn't ruin it for those that don't feel that way. I know we have some differing religious beliefs that could get sticky also.

Should I talk to the mom? We are friendly and seem to have a lot in common, but this seems to be an issue that could come up again. They are Disney fans also. I know that the seeds of doubt are in DD's mind now, but I hope the magic will at least last through our next 2 trips!

I am not sure talking to them will do any good anyway because she doesn't seem to have much discipline/control of the youngest anyway. She refused to help my dd clean up at the end of the day and mom didn't do anything about it, while my dd was crying because "friend" wouldn't help clean up the mess she helped to make. I had to require her to help, and then she just picked up a few things and wandered into my older dd;s room and sat down. I ended up going back in and telling her she wasn't allowed in there and in my house she could either help clean up or go sit in my front hall until it was time to leave. She talked back to me, but when I wouldn't back down she did get up and go downstairs. Mom was in the hall the whole time and never said anything. I felt really weird having to be "strict" with this kid when the Mom should have been, but I was pretty mad at the girl's attitude and the fact that she was leaving a mess for my dd (and me) to clean up, and that Mom wouldn't step up.

This is not the first incident of this kind with this girl. I really have no desire to be around her, nor does dd. But I like the Mom (except for this issue) and our 2 older ones are really good friends. I am really tempted next time to just invite the older one and if it comes up tell Mom that since younger one didn't help clean up and was disrespectful she is not welcome back. (BTW, Mom did ask her "Don't you want to help clean up so you can come back and play another time" and DD's answer was "NO". Mom just said, "OK" )


I am just so frustrated!

 

[juligrl]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not so sure I would tell the mother that the younger one is not invited back because she was disrespectful. That might end your friendship with the mother and your older daughter's friendship with the older daughter. I might say something like MY younger daughter didn't clean her room and is on play restriction or something, so just have the older two get together. Just my .02.

 

[PaulaSue]

Next time I would just invite the older DD over withouut the Mom or younger DD.

 

[stczt]

I agree and would say the little one did/nt do something she was asked and was being punished, you can even ask her to clean the toilet or something awful since you know she wont want to.
My kids have always know characters were dressed up people, and santa is some guy dressed up in the mall. And the younger 2 (7&8) have figured out I'm the tooth fairy so I told them if they dont belive then the fairy does'nt come. THey have not gotten money in about a year. Last week my 7 & 11 lost teeth. they wanted to put them under thier pillows and I said whatever, they'll be there in the a.m. they threw them away. My kids also don't talk about santa etc. I threatened them with no tv, xbox360, gamecube or gameboys if they told one of there friends the truth. now they just laugh at the kids in private. not in a mean way.

 

[lovetoscrap]

As long as they are doing it in private--I don't care if they laugh at my dd!!! I don't care if families choose to tell their kids the truth, I just wish more of them would be like you and require the kids to keep the "secret", especially around little ones.

I wouldn't come out and tell the mom that the younger one is not invited back unless it came up when I ONLY invited the older one. I am just not sure how long it will take for her to "notice"!

We both homeschool, and are planning on doing some specific regular activities together this coming year so this could get awkward fast. I am not sure how long I could "lie"! I guess I may have to just let her know that since the 2 younger ones just don't seem to "click" it is best to only get the older 2 together outside of organized activities. Younger DD usually jumps at any chance for a playdate with anyone, but as far as this girl she would really rather not be around her.

 

[5DisneyNuts]

I think I would just invite the older girl over and not say anything about the younger girl. If mom mentions anything, I would say sorry, my younger DD is not available to play.

My DS's are 14, 13 and 9 and I still haven't told them I don't believe in things like Santa or WDW Magic. It's not lying, I really still do - nothing like it in the world! I'm sorry for the folks that don't see it.

 

[mommy*RN]

The other posts have hit it on the mark! From your post it doesn't sound like you get together with them a lot so it shouldn't be too hard to always have your younger DD "indisposed" if the mom requests a playdate. If you have family in town you can always send your younger DD to play over there if they are coming over...if you aren't able to send your DD away you could maybe only allow supervised play between her and the other child...either with you supervising or your older DD (since I am assuming she knows about Disney characters and Santa). That way if the conversation between the children drifts into taboo subjects you or your older DD can run interference...

It is a tough situation - we all want our kids to believe as long as possible. As a child I told my much younger cousin that the "santa" who visited her house that evening was actually our neighbor. Yeesh - my mom went APE! I had to tell my cousin I was lying and that it was santa...then to seal the deal I went on a long tall tale type story about it so that she would believe. It worked, but I never made that mistake again!

Best of luck to you!

 

[glass slipper girl]

Sorry to hear the other little girl ruined things for your DD. We haven't had THAT discussion with DS (as in Santa etc) but on a recent trip to visit family, we had to do have a chat with him. When I was little my Grandfather and one of his brothers nailed a red bike reflector to a tree in the woods on their property. The night before Thanksgiving they'd take all the kids on a hayride and tell us the story of "Old Red Eye the Pirate" (they live in Louisiana). We'd go hunt for Red Eye with flashlights on the hayride and of course our flashlights would find the reflector. My cousins and I have lots of memories about hunting for Old Red Eye. :lol Now that we all have kids, my uncles take our kids and do the same thing. We were just visiting there and my uncles took 5 or 6 of the kids out. The Red Eye stories are tempered to be not too scary for the age of the kids. My sons are 6 and 4. My 6 year old gets scared easily. He was ALL excited to go hunt for Red Eye and came back all excited but once he got back from the first of many "hunts" that night, he started thinking about it and getting scared. He got REALLY upset at one point because they were going back out to look again and he was worried his little brother (who was totally eating up the whole thing and loving it!) would get hurt by "Red Eye." DS6 was getting SO upset I finally told him "the secret"...that it was just a bicylce reflector nailed to a tree and it was a special game that Papaw had made up when I was a kid and his Great Uncles were just having fun with their grandkids and playing the game just like Papaw did with me and my cousins when I was little. DS wasn't sure about it so he and I got on the 4 wheeler together and went to find the tree again but this time we got up close to it and had a strong enough light that he could really see what it was. On the way back I explained to him that part of being "big enough to know the secret to the game" was not to tell the littler kids (and in one case the older one who didn't know yet!) the secret. It would spoil all the fun for them so his job was to play along and keep the game fun. He had a lot of fun with that and is still, a few weeks later, talking about how fun that way. I've reminded him a few times and he just thinks it is super cool that he's "in on it" with the grown ups and his brother doesn't know!

He has started to comment that the "head characters" like Mickey and Goofy are in costumes but he still believes the face characters are real. When he says "Mickey is just a guy in a costume, right?" I wrinkle my nose and say "ya think so? really?" and he never answers me but I am sure I'll use the same "in on the secret" line with him on that and Santa in the future.

Could you maybe have a chat with the Mom and mention that you totally understand her wanting to be honest with her kids on this stuff and you respect that but that your kids are still enjoying the mystery and magic and you'd like to keep it that way while you still can. Ask if maybe she can ask her girls not to spill the beans to yours?

If they invite you for a playdate, I'd not give a reason, I'd just say "oh, I'm so sorry! Youngest DD can't make it but the oldest would love to!" and either make another playdate for younger DD or plan something fun for her other than this playdate. It doesn't sound like she would feel as if she was missing out; it sounds more like she'd feel like she was given a reprieve!

Hope you are able to figure something out!

 

[Goobergal99]

Had a very close call today! I am casual friends with a woman and I really like her, and she has 2 dd the same ages as mine. Our older 2 get along GREAT, but the younger 2 (age 6) don't really like each other. My dd is very outgoing and sociable, but hers is very bossy and seems spoiled so my dd doesn't like playing with her.

We haven't seen them in a while and I called and invited the girls to join us on an outing and then playdate at my house. Older dd was thrilled, younger one was not. Although things seemed a bit strained, the younger 2 did spend time together and played a bit when we came back to my house.

Then DD comes in with a very sad face and says "She says that the characters at Disney are just people in costumes. Is that true?" DD6 is stil very much immersed in the Disney Magic and I have no desire to squash that anytime soon. I wasn't sure what to say, but looked at her and said "Well, what do you think?" Her answer, "I don't think that is true." So I hugged her and said, "I don't think so either". Not really outright lying! DD then whispered to me "She also said that her Dad told her he is Santa Claus, isn't that silly?" I hugged her tighter and said, "He is silly."

At this point the child came in and I just said, "I think you guys need to find something else to talk about, this is not an appropriate topic." I am pretty sure this family has been "honest" with their kids, but I wish they would stress that the kids shouldn't ruin it for those that don't feel that way. I know we have some differing religious beliefs that could get sticky also.

Should I talk to the mom? We are friendly and seem to have a lot in common, but this seems to be an issue that could come up again. They are Disney fans also. I know that the seeds of doubt are in DD's mind now, but I hope the magic will at least last through our next 2 trips!

I am not sure talking to them will do any good anyway because she doesn't seem to have much discipline/control of the youngest anyway. She refused to help my dd clean up at the end of the day and mom didn't do anything about it, while my dd was crying because "friend" wouldn't help clean up the mess she helped to make. I had to require her to help, and then she just picked up a few things and wandered into my older dd;s room and sat down. I ended up going back in and telling her she wasn't allowed in there and in my house she could either help clean up or go sit in my front hall until it was time to leave. She talked back to me, but when I wouldn't back down she did get up and go downstairs. Mom was in the hall the whole time and never said anything. I felt really weird having to be "strict" with this kid when the Mom should have been, but I was pretty mad at the girl's attitude and the fact that she was leaving a mess for my dd (and me) to clean up, and that Mom wouldn't step up.

This is not the first incident of this kind with this girl. I really have no desire to be around her, nor does dd. But I like the Mom (except for this issue) and our 2 older ones are really good friends. I am really tempted next time to just invite the older one and if it comes up tell Mom that since younger one didn't help clean up and was disrespectful she is not welcome back. (BTW, Mom did ask her "Don't you want to help clean up so you can come back and play another time" and DD's answer was "NO". Mom just said, "OK" )


I am just so frustrated!

My DD is seven and she still believes that the disney characters are real too and I want to keep it that way as well, so I know I would be mad. However, DD figured out there was no tooth fairy. It was my DH's fault because he forgot to tell me she lost her tooth and then he crashed after working and I came home after work the folowing morning to a kid who was very upset that the tooth fairy hadn't come. So I sort of had no choice but to explain and she understood. Luckily she is still very innocent so she hasn't starting doubting the existence of anything else.

 

[Deesknee]

I soooo sympathize. I have triplets. At about 7 years old a neighborhood child told my dd that Santa is fake, as well as the Easter bunny, tooth fairy. We talked with her & she continued to believe in all the magic. I spoke with the girls mom who I am still very friendly with. She spoke with her daughter. She informed me that if her children ask she doesn't "lie" to them. We both respected the others way of raising our children. She explained to her daughter that we don't think our daughter is mature enough to handle the "truth". She and I had decided this was the best way of explaining why we have different opinions on the matter & thought she would feel grown up enough not to ruin any further for my daughter. The subject of Fairy tales never came up amongst the girls again to my knowledge. Then came a sleep over at that girls house. My mothers instinct told me not to let her go, but I was always told how over protective I am. (people still say that, however I now take that as a compliment) Now please pay attention. At the tender age of 7 1/2 the same girl told my daughter the facts of life. I don't just mean the falling in love stuff. I mean she knew what the male genitials were for and how it all happened!!!!! My daughter came home and was very quiet. When bed time came I lingered a little longer than usual in her room sensing something was wrong. (never dreaming), she began to cry. She was horrified that, that was something she would have to do someday to have a baby! I cried. I explained that it would not happen until her body grew up alot and that it is only painful if you do it before your body is ready. I still cannot believe I had that conversation with my daughter at that age. Then I had to explain to her not to tell her brothers about this. That they deserved to not be scared. That I was really sorry she had to learn about this stuff so young. I suggested she tried to forget about it, but if she ever thought about it and had questions to come to me or her dad with them. (not her friends.) I called the mother the next day.
Sometimes we think our kids can handle things, maybe they are capable of it, but just don't want to. Maybe sometimes this goes under "misery loves company".
I am so sorry you & your dd have to go through this whole thing.
Best of luck with letting your "mothers instinct" lead you.

 

[Goobergal99]

I soooo sympathize. I have triplets. At about 7 years old a neighborhood child told my dd that Santa is fake, as well as the Easter bunny, tooth fairy. We talked with her & she continued to believe in all the magic. I spoke with the girls mom who I am still very friendly with. She spoke with her daughter. She informed me that if her children ask she doesn't "lie" to them. We both respected the others way of raising our children. She explained to her daughter that we don't think our daughter is mature enough to handle the "truth". She and I had decided this was the best way of explaining why we have different opinions on the matter & thought she would feel grown up enough not to ruin any further for my daughter. The subject of Fairy tales never came up amongst the girls again to my knowledge. Then came a sleep over at that girls house. My mothers instinct told me not to let her go, but I was always told how over protective I am. (people still say that, however I now take that as a compliment) Now please pay attention. At the tender age of 7 1/2 the same girl told my daughter the facts of life. I don't just mean the falling in love stuff. I mean she knew what the male genitials were for and how it all happened!!!!! My daughter came home and was very quiet. When bed time came I lingered a little longer than usual in her room sensing something was wrong. (never dreaming), she began to cry. She was horrified that, that was something she would have to do someday to have a baby! I cried. I explained that it would not happen until her body grew up alot and that it is only painful if you do it before your body is ready. I still cannot believe I had that conversation with my daughter at that age. Then I had to explain to her not to tell her brothers about this. That they deserved to not be scared. That I was really sorry she had to learn about this stuff so young. I suggested she tried to forget about it, but if she ever thought about it and had questions to come to me or her dad with them. (not her friends.) I called the mother the next day.
Sometimes we think our kids can handle things, maybe they are capable of it, but just don't want to. Maybe sometimes this goes under "misery loves company".
I am so sorry you & your dd have to go through this whole thing.
Best of luck with letting your "mothers instinct" lead you.

WOW! My shan asked me where babies came from too and I definently gave her the G rated explanation. My mom bought one of those cartoons about where babies came from when I was about her age and I loved it, she suggested I do the same with DD but in all honestly I think she is much less mature then I was at her age and I am very happy about that

 

[kpk89]

OH my, Deesknee. That is crazy. Your poor dd. It seems like you handled it very appropriately. Yikes!!

To the OP -- if your younger dd doesn't enjoy playing with the other girl, IMO you could be straight up with the mom and just say that they don't "click." Don't blame it on the other girl, but it seems that if you always try to make an excuse you're asking for a confrontation later on. Definitely DON"T make it awkward for your adult friendship and your older DD's friendship by highlighting exactly WHY they don't click. ((unless she presses .... )

Good luck -- and the part about the "truth", well, I guess you could handle it the same as you would a religious difference. Different families believe different things. That's what makes the world interesting!

 

[jeannine1101a]

My mom told us from the very beginning about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the facts of life. HOWEVER, we were forbidden to tell other kids. I wished that she would have let me believe in Santa just a little bit!

Now, with my 4 year old D, she believes. We just got back from Disney and it never occurred to me that she would think the characters weren't real. I hope no one spoils the fun. I did tell her that a lot of things at Disney were "Disney Magic" and I guess that kind of applies to SC and EB too.

 

[Myrtle]

When my son was about 7 he had been told by another child that Santa wasn't real. I asked, "What do you think." He said, "I don't think you and dad could afford all that stuff." I took him to a "bugged Santa." While his dad headed him up to the stage, I went into a booth (he never missed me with everyone watching) and told the guy there the name of his cat, he talked too much in school and Mr. ___(principal) had to speak with him about that, what he'd done on vacation, his favorite games, etc. He was just amazed when Santa knew everything about his pets, his school, his likes, etc. Bought us about 2 more years of "believing." Santa and Disney are too special. The magic in a child's life doesn't last long enough IMO. Life is hard enough - let them enjoy!

Don't make your excuses too detailed. I'd just say she's not available. I agree that to say they just don't "click" isn't a bad option either.

 

[LauraAnn630]

I have a friend that will NOT let the older child come over without the younger child. They go everywhere together. Good luck!

My oldest son goes over there without his younger brother tho.

 

[hsmamato2]

If your older kids get along, get them together,make other arrangements for your younger child- sometimes you have to protect your kids interests-get a sitter,or make alternate plans for younger, then get the 2 older kids together-

 

[shaylahc1]

I read the original thread and I honestly don't think what this child did was that big of a deal It sounds like you and your DD don't like this child, and if that is how you feel, I would simply avoid inviting her over to play, maybe try to get together with the mother on your own or else meet at a public place like a park or restaurant.

It stinks that the child made those comments to your DD about the characters at WDW, but at age 6 it is not unexpected. If your child goes to school she will hear the same comments from her friends, so you can't really condemn a child for sharing her knowledge (because in fact, what she is saying IS true!). As far as not wanting to clean up---the rule at my house is we clean up after our guests. You wouldn't invite someone to dinner and then ask them to wash the dishes, would you? We feel the same way about our guests. Sometimes the parents will encourage their children to help pick up before they leave a play date, but other parents don't and I think that is fine. I would never discipline someone else's child in my home about something like cleaning up, especially if the parent was sitting right there and obviously has different child rearing values than you do.

JMTCW, from another perspective.

 

[Mom to Jordan]

I agree that you need to limit the friendship to the older girls. It just is not fair to make the little one play with a child she does not care for just so her sister can have a friendship . I bet however when you cut out the younger children that the entire friendship will slowly disolve.

PArents do not have to agree on all issues to be great friends. My BF and I have some very different ideas on children BUT we respect each other and only give advice to the other if asked. WE even vacation together and do great. That is however hard to do if your are just casual friends.

As for the Santa - Character issue, it is really sad you child had to receive some doubts, but that is the age that most kids start "telling" each other. Changes are if she was in a school setting, she would have already been "tipped off" Every parent must decide how to handle that when it arrises. Most parents in our circle of friends, allowed thier child to believe untill they voiced TRUE doubts and then were honest with them.
Children are differnt too. Some just belive a lot longer than others. Our DS did not belive that the characters were real at 6. Think he was about 4 or 5 when he figured it out. He never belived in the EASter Bunny or Tooth fairy. At THREE he told me that was the most rediculous thing he had ever heard of!! He still got a basket every easter and money for every tooth bcause I wanted to play. He did belive in Santa til be was about 7 or 8 because I worked so hard to keep it alive. We had the talk when he was about 10 but he had known the truth for a long time.
He also knew the whole facts of life thing by 6 because he asked more and more questions till he got the answers he wanted!!!
We told him with the sex talk that moms and dads were the ones that needed to explain things to their children so he should not share that with his friends. Never really addressed the other subjects.

DS did know that the characters were not real on his first WDW trip and it made no difference in the fun and excitment over them.

TRy to relax. These things always work themselves out!!!!!!

Jordan's mom

 

[mommiepoppins]

Had a very close call today! I am casual friends with a woman and I really like her, and she has 2 dd the same ages as mine. Our older 2 get along GREAT, but the younger 2 (age 6) don't really like each other. My dd is very outgoing and sociable, but hers is very bossy and seems spoiled so my dd doesn't like playing with her.

We haven't seen them in a while and I called and invited the girls to join us on an outing and then playdate at my house. Older dd was thrilled, younger one was not. Although things seemed a bit strained, the younger 2 did spend time together and played a bit when we came back to my house.

Then DD comes in with a very sad face and says "She says that the characters at Disney are just people in costumes. Is that true?" DD6 is stil very much immersed in the Disney Magic and I have no desire to squash that anytime soon. I wasn't sure what to say, but looked at her and said "Well, what do you think?" Her answer, "I don't think that is true." So I hugged her and said, "I don't think so either". Not really outright lying! DD then whispered to me "She also said that her Dad told her he is Santa Claus, isn't that silly?" I hugged her tighter and said, "He is silly."

At this point the child came in and I just said, "I think you guys need to find something else to talk about, this is not an appropriate topic." I am pretty sure this family has been "honest" with their kids, but I wish they would stress that the kids shouldn't ruin it for those that don't feel that way. I know we have some differing religious beliefs that could get sticky also.

Should I talk to the mom? We are friendly and seem to have a lot in common, but this seems to be an issue that could come up again. They are Disney fans also. I know that the seeds of doubt are in DD's mind now, but I hope the magic will at least last through our next 2 trips!

I am not sure talking to them will do any good anyway because she doesn't seem to have much discipline/control of the youngest anyway. She refused to help my dd clean up at the end of the day and mom didn't do anything about it, while my dd was crying because "friend" wouldn't help clean up the mess she helped to make. I had to require her to help, and then she just picked up a few things and wandered into my older dd;s room and sat down. I ended up going back in and telling her she wasn't allowed in there and in my house she could either help clean up or go sit in my front hall until it was time to leave. She talked back to me, but when I wouldn't back down she did get up and go downstairs. Mom was in the hall the whole time and never said anything. I felt really weird having to be "strict" with this kid when the Mom should have been, but I was pretty mad at the girl's attitude and the fact that she was leaving a mess for my dd (and me) to clean up, and that Mom wouldn't step up.

This is not the first incident of this kind with this girl. I really have no desire to be around her, nor does dd. But I like the Mom (except for this issue) and our 2 older ones are really good friends. I am really tempted next time to just invite the older one and if it comes up tell Mom that since younger one didn't help clean up and was disrespectful she is not welcome back. (BTW, Mom did ask her "Don't you want to help clean up so you can come back and play another time" and DD's answer was "NO". Mom just said, "OK" )


I am just so frustrated!

I would not say any thing to the mom. You handeled it well. My dd now 14 had a friend acros the street who told her things like that .. . you did well

 

[Nurse_Mommy4]

I don't know, it doesn't sound like OP and her dd "DON"T LIKE" this little girl, but rather they don't care for her attitude. Also, it didn't sound like the other mother was opposed to her daughter cleaning up after herself, it sounded like she may be a tad bit spoiled.

To the op, I agree with previous post in that you need to be honest with the other mom that your younger two DD's just don't seem to "click". You never know she may be thinking the same thing herself. In fact, her dd may feel the same as your dd.