Why does John McCain hate America?

[chicagodisneyfan]

this is what we're going to get going forward....its all the left CAN throw at John McCain...let me tell you what we're going to hear in the general election all of which is twisting McCain positions, oversimplifying his views, or downright mischaraterizing him. Its already begun...

"John McCain wants to fight the war in Iraq for 100 year"

"John McCain wants to bomb Iran"

"John McCain supported everything Bush did"

"John McCain flip flopped on torture"

um, no, no, no, and no.....

Nah - I think it is going to be how he dumped his first wife (a former model) after she was in a terrible car accident, gained a lot of weight, lost 4 inches, etc.

I think it will be about his cold hearted affair with a unhurt woman while married. Without that marriage, he would have never had the campaign chest to run for election.

Nice.

 

[wvrevy]

some of these staments have already come out of the mouth of Obama, and they are patently false.

Again, no, they aren't.

McCain DID say he had no problem with us staying in Iraq 100 years.

McCain DID sing Bomb Iran to the Beach Boys tune.

McCain DID support Bush during his second term at all times.

McCain DID flip flop on the use of waterboarding.

None of those things are false.

 

[va32h]

They didn't have to

Obama said on Tim Russert's program that he would "reject and denounce" an endorsement from Farrakhan. Although no such endorsement has come. At best, Farrakhan said he would "like to see" a black president. Farrakhan has not endorsed or supported the Obama campaign, period.

Obama also publicly condemned anti-Semitic statements made by Farrakhan and expressed his disagreement when a magazine sponsored by his church gave Farrakhan an award.

 

[eclectics]

Obama said on Tim Russert's program that he would "reject and denounce" an endorsement from Farrakhan. Although no such endorsement has come. At best, Farrakhan said he would "like to see" a black president. Farrakhan has not endorsed or supported the Obama campaign, period.

Obama also publicly condemned anti-Semitic statements made by Farrakhan and expressed his disagreement when a magazine sponsored by his church gave Farrakhan an award.

Obama handled the Farrakhan issue with class. Even though the right is trying their very best to spin it, they simply can't. The same with trying to get mileage out of that hate email. Although, now that Hillary is on the radar once again, I'm sure she will soon be the one subjected to the right's attention......again. Obama will revert to his old position of being the "good" one.

 

[profdsny]

I do not read talking points...everything I presented to refute your "argument" aboutMcCain's positions are quotes from McCain...so these are not sort of abstract ideas hanging out there. I see you have nothing to offer in terms of actual evidentiary support to refute what I've stated other than the typical "well thats talking points line" and turning the argument to something entirely different. ok then...

Shall I start bringing quotes from Obama's great mentor his minister into this debate? or perhaps from his "friendly" relationship with the terrorist Bill Ayers? if thats the direction we're we are going here...

Well, as the great communicator used to say, there you go again. Using his own quotes to refute facts? That's a good one. So therefore what you said is true because you are quoting him? At least twice his/your talking points have been refuted here on this board.
And, while Obama is not the issue here, your 'friendly reltationship with Ayers' has already been proven to be basically no more than a community meeting at his house, which is in the same area that Obama represented as an Illinois representative. As was posted before, there was a great picture with Nixon meeting with Mao and Cho in China in 1972. That didn't make them friends.
You are using the same nonsense over and over again. Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true, nor never will.
As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own set of facts.

 

[Notatourist]

And McCain on the other hand...

From Democrats.org-

John McCain Should Denounce Hagee Endorsement, Anti-Catholic Remarks
February 29, 2008
In his struggle to shore up his base, John McCain has once again cast aside his principles by embracing Rev. John Hagee, saying he was "pleased to have the endorsement of Pastor John Hagee," despite his intolerant comments about Catholics, women, African Americans, Muslims and LGBT Americans. He repeated his support today, saying "I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's spiritual leadership to thousands of people…I am not endorsing some of their positions." [McCain Media Availability, 2/29/08]

So which Hagee positions does John McCain endorse? His position that Hurricane Katrina was punishment from God because "New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." Or his position that "all Muslims have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06] Or his "slave sale" where he announced that participants should "make plans to come and go home with a slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]

Hagee has already come under fire for his anti-Catholic remarks. Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said McCain should "retract his embrace of Hagee," and said Hagee "has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church." Chris Korzen, Executive Director of Catholics United, said "We hope Senator McCain will take the principled position of publicly and unequivocally distancing himself from Pastor Hagee's anti-Catholic comments. Intolerance and bigotry do not belong in American politics."

"As a Catholic, I am personally offended by John McCain's embrace of such a divisive figure. I join many others in the Catholic community calling on Sen. McCain to immediately distance himself from Hagee and denounce his remarks," said DNC Executive Director Tom McMahon. "As an American, I'm also offended by Hagee's denigration of African Americans, Muslims, women, and LGBT Americans. Hagee's hate speech has no place in public discourse and McCain's embrace of this figure raises serious questions about John McCain's character and his willingness to do anything to win."




McCain on John Hagee


"Well I think it's important to note that pastor John Hagee who has supported and endorsed my candidacy supports what I stand for and believe in. When he endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for and believes. And I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's spiritual leadership to thousands of people and I am proud of his commitment to the independence and the freedom of the state of Israel. That does not mean that I support or endorse or agree with some of the things that Pastor John Hagee might have said or positions that he may have taken on other issues. I don't have to agree with everyone who endorses my candidacy. They are supporting my candidacy. I am not endorsing some of their positions." [McCain Media Availability, 2/29/08]




John Hagee on the Issues…


Hagee on Hurricane Katrina
"All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

Hagee on Islamic Beliefs
Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that "all Muslims have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews," to which Hagee replied, "Well, the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

Hagee on African-Americans
The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to "meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a 'slave sale,' an East Side minister said Wednesday." The Express-News reported:

"Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a 'slave sale' to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, 'The Cluster.'

"The item was introduced with the sentence 'Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone" and ended with "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]

Hagee on Catholicism
"Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews." [Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee]

Hagee on Women
"Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner]

"[T]he feminist movement today is throwing off authority in rebellion against God's pattern for the family." ["Bible Positions on Political Issues," John Hagee]

Hagee on LGBT Americans
"The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

Hagee on Iran
"The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote [in 2006] in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide." [The Nation, 8/8/2006, http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060814/new_christian_zionism]

You do realize that he's not saying which issues that he agrees with Hagee on, right? This man is running for PRESIDENT. This is a man who you don't really want to be associated with, so why not denounce and reject him?

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Again, no, they aren't.

McCain DID say he had no problem with us staying in Iraq 100 years.

McCain DID sing Bomb Iran to the Beach Boys tune.

McCain DID support Bush during his second term at all times.

McCain DID flip flop on the use of waterboarding.

None of those things are false.

you are twisting what has been said, Obama said McCain was willing to wage WAR in Iraq for 100 years, there's a big difference between having a military base ala Germany and Korea and waging a WAR for 100 more years.

Again, Iran just got sanctions for the third time. I think for anyone to suggest we would never bomb Iran would be irresponsible. I'm not saying he didn't say it, but its the context. Are you advocating we say outright we'll NEVER bomb Iran? no matter what?

WHAT? thats just absolutely false! He was advocating a change in strategy in Iraq and getting rid of Rumsfeld.

And as for waterboarding, for the THIRD time, he said after voting against that bill he was still against waterboarding and he believed under the Detainee Act it was ILLEGAL for the CIA or Army to use, he just didn't want to force the CIA to use the Army Field Manual since they are two different agencies.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

nor are you...and McCain is a better judge of his own positions and the words that come out of his mouth than Obama...

when has my position been refuted twice? exactly?

 

[brittsmum1998]

Obama handled the Farrakhan issue with class. Even though the right is trying their very best to spin it, they simply can't. The same with trying to get mileage out of that hate email. Although, now that Hillary is on the radar once again, I'm sure she will soon be the one subjected to the right's attention......again. Obama will revert to his old position of being the "good" one.

I'm sure you watched the last debate. Even Hillary expected more of an answer than what he gave and basically "pushed him up against the wall" . She said the answer was unacceptable. Talk about "spin".

 

[Mr Man]

Please explain this. Are you trying to claim only Republicans fought in the war in Viet Nam or were "guests" in the Hanoi Hilton? Not even Planet Bush can believe that BS. Or maybe they can.

Not at all......I was just making a sarcastic comment.........

 

[brittsmum1998]

Again, no, they aren't.

McCain DID say he had no problem with us staying in Iraq 100 years.

McCain DID sing Bomb Iran to the Beach Boys tune.

McCain DID support Bush during his second term at all times.

McCain DID flip flop on the use of waterboarding.

None of those things are false.

I think if those statements were ALL true as you say, McCain would be MUCH more popular w/ the conservative right.

 

[Notatourist]

And as for waterboarding, for the THIRD time, he said after voting against that bill he was still against waterboarding and he believed under the Detainee Act it was ILLEGAL for the CIA or Army to use, he just didn't want to force the CIA to use the Army Field Manual since they are two different agencies.

Two articles...one from CBS November 1, 2007...He did Flip-Flop

(AP) Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Thursday the United States does not use an interrogation technique known as waterboarding and argued that Attorney General-nominee Michael Mukasey would not allow the method.

"I am confident he would not condone such practices," the Arizona senator told more than 250 students during a town-hall meeting at Coastal Carolina University. "I have been briefed enough to know we are not doing that today anywhere in America's government."

Later, during an appearance in Goose Creek, McCain was asked if there is any indication the government had used the technique in the past.

"I don't know," he replied. "I've never had that information."

Speaking with reporters after addressing about 100 members of a Rotary club, McCain said he is confident Mukasey opposes the practice, which he called a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

Mukasey wrote in response to a question from McCain that he didn't think the president had authority to overrule acts of Congress, McCain said.

Congress has passed laws "which clearly prohibit torture and clearly prohibit waterboarding," McCain said

McCain's support of the embattled nominee came as President Bush defended Mukasey's refusal to say whether he considers waterboarding as illegal torture.

Prospects for Mukasey's confirmation have dimmed because of his refusal to equate waterboarding with torture. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., said Thursday that he intends to oppose the nomination, arguing that Mukasey's unwillingness to answer definitively on the legality of the interrogation method that simulates drowning increases the chances it could be used against U.S. troops.

Mr. Bush said it was unfair to ask the former judge about interrogation techniques he has not been briefed about. The president also said Mukasey doesn't know if the U.S. uses the technique, but that it wouldn't make sense to tell enemies what the U.S. was doing.

McCain, the decorated Vietnam War veteran who spent 5½ years as a POW, said the U.S. should not engage in torture and there was no need for waterboarding.

"If you inflict enough physical pain on anybody, they will tell you anything you want to know," said McCain, who was starting a three-day campaign trip through South Carolina.


© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


Then how he voted-from The New York Times
Senate Passes Interrogation Ban

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: February 13, 2008
WASHINGTON — The Senate voted 51 to 45 on Wednesday afternoon to ban waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods used by the Central Intelligence Agency against high-level terrorism suspects.

Senate Republicans generally opposed the bill, but several of them also did not want to cast a vote that could be construed as supporting torture, and so were relying on President Bush to make good on a threat to veto legislation limiting C.I.A. interrogation techniques.

The prohibition of harsh interrogation techniques is part of a wider intelligence authorization bill and would restrict all American interrogators to techniques allowed in the Army Field Manual, which bars the use of physical force.

The House approved the bill in December by a vote of 222 to 199, mostly along party lines. Wednesday’s vote in the Senate was also along party lines. All the “no” votes were cast by Republicans, except for those of Senators Joseph I. Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, and Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska. Five Republicans and Senator Bernard Sanders, independent of Vermont, voted “yes.”

But the White House has long said Mr. Bush will veto the bill, saying it “would prevent the president from taking the lawful actions necessary to protect Americans from attack in wartime.”

Senate Democrats, sensing an opportunity to highlight a policy dispute between the White House and Senator John McCain, the likely Republican presidential nominee, had been hoping that Republicans would make a procedural challenge to the provision on interrogation methods.

Mr. McCain, a former prisoner of war, has consistently voiced opposition to waterboarding and other methods that critics say is a form torture. But the Republicans, confident of a White House veto, did not mount the challenge. Mr. McCain voted “no” on Wednesday afternoon.

 

[Mr Man]

My point was that they would not disrespect him the same way the Bush campaign did to Kerry.

I tend to agree with you and hope this is what happens. But I don't think Sen McCain's opponents will refrain from this line of attack out of a sense of decency or honor. I think it is more along the line that they know they can't make it stick, and will look silly for doing it.

.....along the lines of "someone" in Sen Clinton's campaign comparing Sen Obama to Kenneth Starr....... silly. That is probably the clumsiest analogy I have ever heard.....

I also have no doubt that there are going to be some Republican shenanigans that will have me shaking my head during this election cycle. It is inevitable.

It is politics after all....er warfare by "other means".

Regards,

 

[wvrevy]

I'm sure you watched the last debate. Even Hillary expected more of an answer than what he gave and basically "pushed him up against the wall" . She said the answer was unacceptable. Talk about "spin".

His comment turned her critique - and her and anyone else trying to make it an issue - into a semantic joke. That's why everyone laughed after he said it. Because his tone clearly showed his disdain for her trying to spin it into some kind of issue.

I think if those statements were ALL true as you say, McCain would be MUCH more popular w/ the conservative right.

Maybe they don't trust that his "born again" status is real? That seems to be the consensus from what I've seen of comments from that sector. But again, the statements are, proveably, true.

Iraq - Anybody that thinks we can stay in that part of the world "just like we are in Germany" just doesn't understand the region or the issues driving the conflict over there.

I linked to the "Bomb Iran" performance in my initial response. It's on YouTube. Regardless of our eventual need to deal with any situations in that country, that kind of cavalier "sounds like fun" attitude is exactly the opposite of how a man who holds the lives of soldiers in his hands should be acting.

Since going on the campaign trail for Dubya in 2004, McCain has been playing the political game with all his might in order to win the nomination this time around. If you can find enough votes, go back and look at how many times he voted against a Bush agenda item in the last 4 years.

The torture thing has been answered clearly above.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Two articles...one from CBS November 1, 2007...He did Flip-Flop
.

no he did not. He does not support torture, he voted in fvor of the bill for the reason I have cited now for the fourth time. He did NOT want the CIA to be forced to use the Army Field guide manual..

"The bill, which the Senate passed Wednesday by 51 to 45, would force the CIA to abide by the rules set out in the Army Field Manual on Interrogation, which prohibits physical force and lists approved interrogation methods.

McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, has led the battle in recent years on a number of bills to end torture by the United States. He said he voted against the bill Wednesday because legislation he had helped to pass already prohibits the CIA from "cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment."

McCain, of Arizona, said he believed it would be a mistake to limit CIA interrogators to using only those techniques that were enumerated in the Field Manual, which he noted was a public document.

"When we passed the Military Commissions Act, we said that the CIA should have the ability to use additional techniques," McCain told reporters Friday in Oshkosh, Wisconsin "None of those techniques would entail violating the Detainee Treatment Act, which said that cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment are prohibited.

McCain said the vote was consistent, noting in a statement he submitted to the Congressional Record that when congress voted in 2005 to apply the Army Field Manual to the entire Department of Defense, it deliberately excluded the CIA

McCain, according to a Senate aide of his, believes that while the CIA should be — and is — prohibited from using cruel and inhumane and degrading tactics, it should have the flexibility to use acceptable tactics that are not listed in the Field Manual."

 

[Mr Man]

I do. I have no patience for Rovian campaign tactics. That's one reason why I'm supporting Obama over Hillary.

Fair enough. I respect this point of view.

As an aside, I do love that "Rovian" has entered the lingua franca synonymous with "Machiavellian".

.......it just distracts our opponents from the "reeeeeallll" force behind everything sinister..... Mwuah-ha-ha-ha-ha.....ha-ha-ha-......(cough, cough)....drinks rapidly a glass of water........

As for that last part...don't you mean you get to watch Democrats dominate the news cycle while everyone forgets about McCain for the next 6 months?

I like mine better......hehehehe..... it's a long ways to November.....

Regards,

 

[wvrevy]

no he did not. He does not support torture, he voted in fvor of the bill for the reason I have cited now for the fourth time. He did NOT want the CIA to be forced to use the Army Field guide manual..

"The bill, which the Senate passed Wednesday by 51 to 45, would force the CIA to abide by the rules set out in the Army Field Manual on Interrogation, which prohibits physical force and lists approved interrogation methods.

McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, has led the battle in recent years on a number of bills to end torture by the United States. He said he voted against the bill Wednesday because legislation he had helped to pass already prohibits the CIA from "cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment."

McCain, of Arizona, said he believed it would be a mistake to limit CIA interrogators to using only those techniques that were enumerated in the Field Manual, which he noted was a public document.

"When we passed the Military Commissions Act, we said that the CIA should have the ability to use additional techniques," McCain told reporters Friday in Oshkosh, Wisconsin "None of those techniques would entail violating the Detainee Treatment Act, which said that cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment are prohibited.

McCain said the vote was consistent, noting in a statement he submitted to the Congressional Record that when congress voted in 2005 to apply the Army Field Manual to the entire Department of Defense, it deliberately excluded the CIA

McCain, according to a Senate aide of his, believes that while the CIA should be — and is — prohibited from using cruel and inhumane and degrading tactics, it should have the flexibility to use acceptable tactics that are not listed in the Field Manual."

In other words, it depends on wha tthe meaning of the word "is" is.



Sorry, but the white house used as an excuse for waterboarding that they felt it did not fall under the "cruel, inhumane, or degrading" heading. Consequently, the Democrats in congress set up a bill specifically saying that you can not do this, this, this, or anything else not listed specifically in the Army Field Manual. That would be the same guide about which John McCain had previously said:

I would hope that we would understand, my friends, that life is not 24 and Jack Bauer. Life is interrogation techniques which are humane and yet effective. And I just came back from visiting a prison in Iraq. The army general there said that techniques under the Army Field Manual are working and working effectively, and he didn’t think they need to do anything else. My friends, this is what America is all about.

It's a flip-flop, plain and simple.

 

[Mr Man]

Oh, and then there's the minister from Texas who endorsed McCain. You know, the one who calls Catholicism the "great *****." Spin that one also while you're at it.

I'll take this one......I can spin it in one word.....

Farrakhan

Regards,

 

[wvrevy]

Fair enough. I respect this point of view.

As an aside, I do love that "Rovian" has entered the lingua franca synonymous with "Machiavellian".

Even Machiavelli could have learned a thing or two from Turd Blossom.

I like mine better......hehehehe..... it's a long ways to November.....

Regards,

In all honesty, I'm worried that your spin-fu might be stronger as well.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Hey all you Republican supporters, lighten up. We know McCain is a bit loopy, it was the whole time he was a POW, messed with his head, can't be trusted with his finger on the button. Remember. The Bushies said that in the South Carolina primaries a few years ago. Let's see, that was orchestrated by the same guy that questioned Kerry's actions in combat.