Why can SSR owners book other DVC resorts...

[burnsoc]

Hi debbiedoo,
Yes you can't stay at any of the resorts until your unit is declared into inventory, but you can book a reservation now at all the resorts. However, I can't book a reservation at your resort until February, therein lies the rub.

 

[PamOKW]

Error -- delete

 

[PamOKW]

Debbiedoo's clarification makes things a little clearer. If a SSR member can't stay until their unit is open, there isn't too much of a problem. It sounds like it will be June before a signficant amount of the resort starts to be open. So, that means that SSR owners can only be booking other resorts from mid-May/June foward? The first time non-SSR folks can book for SSR is for a mid-May/June stay --- I think we are even after all. There is a little bit of an problem in the case of a SSR owner who has booked a resort for July or August right now and has taken that reservation away from someone else who can't book SSR as an alternative but with just a few weeks before all's even again I don't think it's a huge problem.

 

[stacy6552]

What's rubbing you though? Thats the question that has to be answered tangibly, for there to be a real inequity and a requirement for change.

If on Feb 4 the resort if booked, its only booked by SSR owners. How is that any different than if you booked at the 7 mos window?

It would be a "rookie mistake" to decide you want to take a trip on June 20th and not book reservations where you can, when you can and then change the reservation to the resort you really want when the window opens.

 

[burnsoc]

For the record Stacy i'm not looking for a change in the policy. I (along with just about everybody else posting on this thread) am just surprised that DVC is changing the booking guidelines to favor SSR owners for those two months. If the resort is booked on February 4 by SSR owners that is fine, it's their home resort. But why are SSR owners allowed to book my home resort before I can make a reservation at theirs? I haven't seen you answer that yet. There is no "rookie mistake" here, as soon as I realized I wanted to go to MH I booked one of my home resorts. The inequality you seem to be missing is that the system works by EVERY member having an equal chance at EVERY resort according to the guidelines. The only members at this time who have a chance at EVERY resort are SSR owners. DVC is taking that away from the other resort owners for two months, giving an unfair advantage. I don't think anybody here has lost out on getting reservations, we are only surprised at this change in policy.

 

[stacy6552]

Why did Disney do this?

From what I have gathered, BCV owners did not get any priority booking window for BCV when it opened. And BCV members were not happy. This is also the first time they have really had to presell a resort, which I suspect is because this is the first time they have not really had other DVC inventory to sell (ex: when WLV was being built, OKW and BWI were still selling).

So I'm guessing that Disney asked themselves a few questions:

How do we not overcrowd our other resorts before the SSR units are put into inventory, but still make our product marketable initially? Answer: Since new members wont be able to close right away, offer a monitary incentive, or a trip using Disney DP.

How early can we reasonable predict the opening of the resort, so we dont make reservations that have to be cancelled due to delays? Answer: December.

If we set the SSR priority window for Dec, is it reasonable that guests will experience close to the same level of service as they would at 11mos? Answer: Yes, if an owner can't get in, its because other owners have filled the resort.

What is a proportionate amount of time for the SSR priority window? Answer: 2 months.

If a non-ssr owner books a trip on Feb 4, will they receive the compairable level of service? Answer: yes, if the resort is booked by owners that is no different than unavailability at the 7 month window.

Is the shortened window inconvenient? Answer: Yes, its always less convienent to book short term.

Is it unfair? Answer: no. Ssr members should be given an accurate opening date. It would be unfair to try and predict an opening a year out and knowingly be booking reservations before we are ready. Other members can book at their home resort during the priority window and or at another resort while awaiting the booking opneing of SSR and change then, if possible.

Have we offered the best quality service to all DVC members? Answer: YES.

That's why they have set it up like they have.

 

[DeeP]

The inequality you seem to be missing is that the system works by EVERY member having an equal chance at EVERY resort according to the guidelines. The only members at this time who have a chance at EVERY resort are SSR owners. DVC is taking that away from the other resort owners for two months, giving an unfair advantage.

Stacy,
The above quote summarizes the whole thing up quite nicely. Many, many have explained this over and over again to you during the course of this very long thread. I find it very hard to believe you still do not understand. Not to be pointing fingers, but I think you are intentionally trying to be obstinate.
BTW, I already have all my trips for 2004 booked at DVC resorts so this is really immaterial to me, it is just the principle of it that annoys some members.

 

[stacy6552]

First of all, I am not being obtuse. I am responding reasonable to points and questions. I have asked questions and only a very few have tried to actually answer them.

Everyone does have equal chance to book equally at all the resorts! The point is that SSR's timing is just different, but everyone has the chance to book at the resorts equally. Everyone non-member get the same chance to book at another resort equally.

The fair way to do it is to consider the bookings by resort, not by member. Can all members book at OKW equally? Yes. Can all members book at BWV equally? yes. Can all members book at VB equally? Yes. can all members book at HHI equally? Yes. Can all members book at WLV equally? Yes. Can all members book at BCV equally? Yes. Can all members book at SSR equally? Yes.

The other way proposed answers all but the ssr question with big fat, No not for SSR members. And until someone can reasonable explain what will be different to members on Feb 4, as a result of the system and not the member, then there is no reason to change it to give SSR an unfair chance to book outside their resort.

 

[burnsoc]

Stacy if we look at the resorts like you suggest it's still the same, SSR can book at every resort but the reverse is not true. I think you actually understand the point because you said that the timing is different. That is the point that has been stated here, by DVC changing the timing of booking for SSR owners they have given SSR owners the ability to book at all resorts and not allowed other resort owners the same privilege. What it comes down to is that DVC has created a special circumstance for SSR that they have not done previously. While I agree with their decision to give SSR members first dibs on their home resort (even though with BCV they did not do this) it seems odd that they're allowing the booking of other resorts by SSR members and restricting existing membership from booking SSR even though we are within the seven month guideline. And while I see that the overall effect from this is probably minute, it is the bending of policy by DVC that I find strange. We tend to analyze things pretty thoroughly on this board, even though it may have little to no impact on members. I hope you enjoy your new home at SSR!

 

[DeeP]

I said you were obstinate not obtuse.
Now I have a question for you. Do you think it is fair that SSR owners (who are not even really full fledged DVC members yet) get to book at ALL DVC resorts, yet when all the other resorts opened BWV, BCV, WLV those members were not given the same opportunity?? Please explain how this is treating all new DVC members fairly and the same.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by debbiedoo
I forgot to mention that the first 6 dvc resorts are dvc 1 and from ssr on dvc 2. Did you know that after dvc 1 expires, that we can no longer stay at your resorts!!! yep. Also we can not stay on any property until our building is up. For example that may 17th people can not use any of their points until may 17th. I an scheduled to open on June 7th. I can not use any of my points until then. If there is another delay in opening, then I can still not stay at any of the resorts. I hope that this may clear the air a little for everyone. If any more questions just ask!!

Legally one can't exchange until their unit is ready for occupancy, that's a matter of legality and contract and that info was available to all owners when they signed their intent to buy. Likewise, the fact that SSR owners won't have the other current resorts to exchange into is a matter of record and was known before they signed on as well. Neither issue has ANY bearing on this case. The fact is very simple. DVC varied form the written rules and they should not have OR they should have kept the current system and SSR separate until these things were evened out.

One other thing to address a previous issue in the thread. The fact that SSR owners give up points does not mean there will be extra SSR units later on. There are more points than units at SSR and those extra points will be hard to make up just at SSR alone. With the past few resorts (BCV, VWL, HH, VB and the extra OKW and BWV points) there has been a fair amount of MB activity. This offset the "extra" points generated into the system. The only options to absorb those extra SSR points is the DVD margin of unsold points and any unused inventory at the other resorts which shouldn't be used for this purpose anyway.

It may be true that DVD and DVC have accounted for these in various ways, we just don't know. They could have a higher unsold margin to handle it.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by stacy6552
The fair way to do it is to consider the bookings by resort, not by member. Can all members book at OKW equally? Yes. Can all members book at BWV equally? yes. Can all members book at VB equally? Yes. can all members book at HHI equally? Yes. Can all members book at WLV equally? Yes. Can all members book at BCV equally? Yes. Can all members book at SSR equally? Yes.

Can all members book at SSR equally? No. A SSR member can call today and book at all resorts for August on. All other DVC members cannot book at SSR at all. An SSR member calls and take the very last August 1 night available but August 1 is also available at SSR. A non-SSR member cannot book that SSR room today and has lost all other options for August 1 to a SSR member.

Like DeeP, this doesn't efect me since I have no plans to be booking a trip. It is, however, a special circumstance that I don't believe has ever been granted before. No group has ever been permitted to "trade" into the another resort without actually offering anything in exchange.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stacy6552
What's rubbing you though? Thats the question that has to be answered tangibly, for there to be a real inequity and a requirement for change.

What bothers me and is inherently wrong is that DVC gave a special advantage to SSR buyers that was not consistent with the club rules. To say that there has to be a substantial problem generated to call it wrong is unreasonable. Some things are wrong because they're wrong, period, and this is one of them. Is it a big wrong, no, I'd say it's like going 75 on he Intersate when the limit is 70.

I wonder what will happen if the opening gets delayed. By rights, those with reservations prior to opening would be cancelled.

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

I am now under the belief that Stacy completely understands everything that every other poster is saying on this thread over the last 2 days, but is just playing devil's advocate.

I think that she knows that DVC is wrong in this situation, but hey it benefits her, so she is ok with it.

She is constantly posting that she has asked questions, but does not get answers to her questions. This is not true. We have answered the question every time. No, you should not be able to book anywhere but your own resort. Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE IN YOUR HOME PRIORITY BOOKING PERIOD.

Stacy, you tell me any other DVC members that are allowed to book a non-home resort ressie when they are in their home resort booking priority period, and I will let it go. Guess what, other than SSR Members, you can not find any other member who either currently has / or ever had that right.

Do I think that you need to cancel your non-ssr stay? No. But starting Monday, DVC should not allow any more ssr members to book non-ssr stays.

Also, I really hope for all the SSR Members (I am being 100% sincere here) that currently have ressies booked at either their home or another DVC resort, that DVD does not have any developments over the next 4 months that make DVD/DVC find the need to adjust the estimated opening dates. DVC would need to cancel any ressies that are booked prior to a new estimated opening date. Now, I think that would be a greater dis-service to the members, than any booking window error.

Edward

 

[Doctor P]

This is an interesting thread that I have been following several days vowing that I would not stick my nose in, but I guess I can't help myself, LOL. I have a BIG problem with SSR owners being allowed to book ANY non-home resort until SSR opens (or at least until the contracts have closed). Until you are in a time period for which you are paying dues on the points, you should not be able to use the services of MS with your points (including making a reservation). Keep in mind that normally when you buy into DVC through DVD, your dues start accruing on the date you make your deposit/sign your papers. Thus, this is part of the reason, IMHO, that one is given access to home resort and other DVC resort reservations before you close . Furthermore, let's look at it from the perspective of someone who wants to get a Grand Villa. SSR people are allowed to compete for the Grand Villas at all the resorts while their Grand Villas are protected from outside intruders and reserved for SSR owners during a time period within the 7 month window. Doesn't quite seem fair to me.

 

[dcfromva]

I have a BIG problem with SSR owners being allowed to book ANY non-home resort until SSR opens (or at least until the contracts have closed).

Doctor P,

I was wondering if you had the same heartburn with BCV owners who were permitted to book all DVC starting March 6, 2002? BCV did not open and BCV members did not start paying dues until June 2002....

-DC

 

[stacy6552]

Yes, Pam, all non-ssr owners can book at SSR equally. and SSR owners can book equally with other non-hme resort owners for all resorts.

If you want to take away the ability for all SSR owners to book at other resorts in the same way that other non-owner members can( ex: giving OKW members priority booking at BCV over SSR members), you have to show me tangible loss. What do you expact to happen on Feb 4, that would not happen at the 7 month mark, ordinarily. It has to be a loss because of the system, not a loss because of member misplanning ( like the okw member waiting to book his second choice, BCV, until after he cannot get into SSR on Feb 4, because he could have booked at the BCV earlier).

Right now SSR owners have what everyone else has: a home resort priority booking window and a non-resort 7 month booking window. If you want to take that away and give them less, you have to show me a real loss on the part of other members. Tell me what could be different on Feb 4, trying to book at SSR, than at any other 7 month mark.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by stacy6552
Yes, Pam, all non-ssr owners can book at SSR equally. and SSR owners can book equally with other non-hme resort owners for all resorts.
.

And all SSR members can book at non-SSR resorts at an unequal advantage over all other DVC members.

The way that DVC works is that you purchase a real estate interest in your home resort. You are given "points" as representation of this ownership. The points are used to make reservations at your home resort.

Another feature of the program is the ability to "trade" your home resort accomodations for other opportunities. These include staying at WDW hotels, taking cruises and safaris, trading to outside hotels and timeshares and TRADING into other DVC resorts.

Currently, if I book at BWV then someone from BWV can "use" the points I have freed up by not staying at OKW and this circles around from resort to resort. If an SSR owner books at BWV, they have taken away that reservation at BWV and have traded NOTHING! The BWV cannot "use" the BWV points to book at SSR or elsewhere. The SSR owner is booking with an IOU -- I'm booking now and in February you can try and collect on my "trade".

 

[dcfromva]

Currently, if I book at BWV then someone from BWV can "use" the points I have freed up by not staying at OKW and this circles around from resort to resort. If an SSR owner books at BWV, they have taken away that reservation at BWV and have traded NOTHING! The BWV cannot "use" the BWV points to book at SSR or elsewhere. The SSR owner is booking with an IOU -- I'm booking now and in February you can try and collect on my "trade".

Pam,
Isn't that the same way borrowing points works, too? I can borrow my BCV points from my next UY to book at HHI---what does the HHI owner get in return (until next year)?

-DC

 

[inky dinky doo]

I'm not nearly as experienced with DVC as Pam, but I would say this. In your example, DVC is still treating all members equally, because the HHI owner can borrow points from their next UY for a stay at BCV -- just like you. See? It's an even trade.

The situtation with SSR is NOT the same.

Pat