Why all the fuss about DDP?

[kdawg8762]

I understand if it doesn't work for you. I understand if it doesn't. What i don't understand is people ripping it because it doesn't work for them. When we go as a married couple, its great for us. We usually go with the DxDP and it fits our needs. We eat 3 TS meals every day (early Breakast, lunch, and a later supper around 8ish). Lunch is usually a bit lighter on the entree, but we still get the dessert. We use the snacks for getting stuff to bring home to the kids or on soda/water in a park (i refuse to carry things with me outside of a camera because i enevitably get tired of carrying it). Only thing that i wish they had, in addition to the wine plan, have a cocktail/beer plan! All that said, I completely understand why it doesn't work for a lot of people.

 

[Faldred]

I agree with the general sentiment above, and perhaps then some. Assuming that the dining plan is no good for anyone because it doesn't work for you, or that it should be good for everybody because it's good for you are equally wrong.

It is, however, useful to use both positive and negative experiences or views of the dining plans as an aid to others when trying to decide if it's a good idea for them. It would be better if the people writing the feedback would bear in mind that their preferences and experiences do not universally apply, of course. But in any event, those reading the reviews or analysis should look to them trying to decide how similar their preferences and styles are to the people involved.

"Value" of the dining plans are very, very subjective things.

 

[havoc315]

I understand if it doesn't work for you. I understand if it doesn't. What i don't understand is people ripping it because it doesn't work for them. When we go as a married couple, its great for us. We usually go with the DxDP and it fits our needs. We eat 3 TS meals every day (early Breakast, lunch, and a later supper around 8ish). Lunch is usually a bit lighter on the entree, but we still get the dessert. We use the snacks for getting stuff to bring home to the kids or on soda/water in a park (i refuse to carry things with me outside of a camera because i enevitably get tired of carrying it). Only thing that i wish they had, in addition to the wine plan, have a cocktail/beer plan! All that said, I completely understand why it doesn't work for a lot of people.

I think people appreciate that it isn't necessarily meant for all people... But I think the discussions and complaints are valid, and they come from a few places:

1-- The DDP used to be a much better value for people. So you have complaints from families who feel like they have lost benefit. (If Disney suddenly took pool privileges away from resort guests, it would certainly be worthy of discussion).

2--The DDP is marketed by Disney as being "recommended" for its guests. So if it really is only designed to be good for a small percentage of guests, I think there is offense taken that Disney is promoting it for all guests.

3--Many people see the DDP as being a rip-off, or even border-line fraudulent. Not just a matter of "not working for them" -- But the design of the plan itself is flawed in such a way that it is a rip off. Certainly worthy of discussion. An Annual Pass is simply a matter of guest choice-- it works for some, it doesn't work for others. But nobody would claim that it's a fraudulent product. The DDP on the other hand.... isn't so straight-forward. It's pretty easy to see some sleaziness in the design.

 

[goofy4tink]

I think people appreciate that it isn't necessarily meant for all people... But I think the discussions and complaints are valid, and they come from a few places:

1-- The DDP used to be a much better value for people. So you have complaints from families who feel like they have lost benefit. (If Disney suddenly took pool privileges away from resort guests, it would certainly be worthy of discussion).

2--The DDP is marketed by Disney as being "recommended" for its guests. So if it really is only designed to be good for a small percentage of guests, I think there is offense taken that Disney is promoting it for all guests.

3--Many people see the DDP as being a rip-off, or even border-line fraudulent. Not just a matter of "not working for them" -- But the design of the plan itself is flawed in such a way that it is a rip off. Certainly worthy of discussion. An Annual Pass is simply a matter of guest choice-- it works for some, it doesn't work for others. But nobody would claim that it's a fraudulent product. The DDP on the other hand.... isn't so straight-forward. It's pretty easy to see some sleaziness in the design.

Yup.....100% agree. The dining plan used to be a really good deal...you got an appetizer, entree, beverage, dessert and the tip was included. Not so much anymore. Now, you don't get an appetizer, and you have to figure on including that 18-20% tip in your dining budget. And many, many people tend to forget that one.

And the deluxe dining plan??? Oh my...it's amazing how many people think this is the worst plan ever. They say it's too much time away from the parks, it's too much food, etc. Well...I don't normally do the ddp anymore. I have an AP so get the TiW card each year. But, we're going down to WDW in Oct with another couple...no kids at all. Dh and I have been to WDW many,many times. The other couple is okay with doing attractions but doesn't want to be running frantically from one attraction to another....so being able to do it all, see it all isn't an issue for us. Eating some good meals is much more important. So, sure...we'll miss about 2.5 hrs iin the park each day. We're good with that.

Truly?? No one plan is perfect for everyone. And that's what's so nice about a discussion board. You can ask a question and get mulitple answers. You get many different points of view....I, for one, want to hear the negatives as well as the positives. That's about the only way you can make an informed decision. Yeah, some people are really opinionated as to how they feel...and sometimes they can across harshly.

So....when trying to figure out what will work best for your family, this is how I do it... I figure out where and what we'll be eating (easy to do after 30+ stays). Now, I have a total. I also am sure to jot down what tips will be for each meal.
Then.....If I'm planning on using my TiW card, I total it up, with no tips included. Why? I save 20% with my TiW card....that discount is the tip. I merely write in whatever the discount was...easy peasy.

If I'm thinking about the dining plan...I total up the cost of the daily ddp for the group. Then, I compare it to the total cost of the food we're planning on having. I also remember to add the tips total in that as well...sometimes it can be over $150 depending where we eat and how many of us there are.

I also compare the regular dining plan with the deluxe dining plan. For my trip in Oct, the deluxe dining plan (for the 5 nights we're at BWV) is just a bit more than my oop costs using the TiW card. We move to Kidani for our last two nights so will pay out of pocket for that last 24 hrs..only means 3 meals. When I add in all the snacks we would be getting, Food and Wine time, in addition to the regular meals, it just makes more sense to do the deluxe plan. But, there are still those out there that think it's a huge waste of both time and money. And usually, for me it is as well....but not this trip.

 

[whacked]

I find it frustrating that there are some people on this site (and way too many travel agents) that recommend the DDP for everyone.

If it's free, I'll agree it's usually a fantastic value, though even then there can be some exceptions depending on other room discounts at the mods and deluxe resorts particularly with single guests.

If the focus of your trip is dining, and you are willing to research the costs of what you will eat (menu by menu) vs. out of pocket, it can be, but still might not be a good deal.

For most people, the paid dining plans no longer make sense as a cost saver, and the plans can be somewhat limiting (the plan determines what, where, and how much you can eat to some extent).

Unless you are willing to take the time to totally understand the plan and really want to maximize (order the most expensive items from the most expensive restaurants) at every meal and snack, the savings touted by Disney (20%) is not there.

Some people want the convenience of the dining plan as that part of the vacation is prepaid. I understand that from a budgeting standpoint.

There are a lot of posts that give very good information about how the plan works and I appreciate those. I believe the paid dining plan has gone from an extra enticement to stay at Disney, to a profit center with little to no added value to the average Disney guest.

 

[Cafeen]

While I do tend to support it quite a bit, it's more so the support of it's potential if used "properly" and against hyperbole that it tends to attract ("only the most expensive meals at the most expensive restaurants" is a good example.) I'm a bit more of a realist about it and understand (probably better than most) that it certainly doesn't work for everyone, but at the same time, that doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone . I'm also pretty adamant about it not working in other situations, so really I'm just a staunch-moderate .

Even at the 2012 prices, there are plenty of circumstances where it will have value for a potential guest. Of course, reaching the same (or similar) levels of value will be a bit more tricky next year, it's still doable.

In the end, I'm all about pointing those in the direction of what suits them, despite what Disney Marketing says.

 

[lesabrowning]

This post makes me laugh.... and agree. We are lovers of the dining plans, but completely understand that not everyone vacations like we do. I never understand the hate! LOL I also do not understand how it is "sleazy" or "fraudulent" in any way. It is what it is and Disney lays it out pretty clearly in my opinion. The way I see it, decide where you want to eat and what it will cost. If the total is less than the cost of the dining plan, then the plan is something to consider. If your total cost is less, it is likely not. If it does not save you money, or you don't like the restrictions, don't use the plan! LOL (unless you are just looking for pre paid convenience, to each his own) For us, it saves us money, period. We alternate between the regular dining plan and the deluxe dining plan. We are DVC members, so we have never done "free" dining. We are also AP holders and have compared the dining plans with the Tables in Wonderland card. So far, dining plans save us money and we will use it until they no longer offer us a savings. I agree that discussion is good and many people just have questions. I also appreciate the passion of my fellow Disney lovers. But the Dining Plan hate? makes no sense to me.

 

[nurtz]

I guess I really don't read that many posts "ripping" the dining plan. I see some that say the dining plans don't work for everyone. We don't use them for many reasons but I can understand why some would. Why do some who swear by the dining plans think it is hating on the plans when those who don't use them explain why? Not everyone wants to eat the way the plans are designed and not everyone needs to prepay for their food in order to have a fun, carefree trip. 20 plus trips for me, no dining plans. I have been quite happy with my dining experiences paying out of pocket and yes, I still order what I want...most expensive steak or just an appetizer. Depends on how hungry I am and what I feel like at that time. It can be done. We do have TIW now, too. If I was a newcomer to Disney and these boards, I would feel like I HAVE to get the dining plan to have a great trip. It is nice to hear from those like me who just don't care to use the plans yet manage to eat well and have fun trips. I always think it is better to have differing opinions to help me decide on something.

 

[Sleepyhappyandgrumpy]

We are going for the first time in Oct, but we got the Deluxe Plan for two reasons: 1 - We want everything paid for before we get there and 2 - We will pinch pennies when we are ordering if we are paying out of pocket, i.e. no apps, not the steak, etc... This way, it may be more expensive in the long run, but we will have freedom while we are there, and won't pay for it when we get home. (Well, maybe in poundage... )

 

[StarNova]

We just got back from our first trip to Disney. We had the regular dining plan. 1 table, 1 counter, 1 snack. Honestly, I don't think I would do it again. We spent most of our time planning or getting to reservations. 1 or 2 character meals is all we really needed. We were only there for less than a week. If you miss a meal, you're out of money. And the gratuity was confusing at times, especially for larger parties. I didn't hate the plan - but for those on a shorter stay - I think it's not the best option.

If we go back, I might go with a OOP strategy or time our vacation with the free dining plan. I've learned a lot on the boards and we still had a few issues.

One thing I didn't know (and am MOST UNHAPPY ABOUT) When you check out, you only have the card and the dining credits available until noon that day. We had a party of 7 to feed and planned on a later lunch (with our later flight). Thank goodness a cast member mentioned to quickly use up our credits before noon or they would be forfeit. We scrambled to use 7 counter and 5 snacks in an hour. Not fun. I feel that was a rip-off (cancelling our credits by noon instead of giving us the entire day) and not clearly stated by anyone - from the check-in to any restaurant employee we encountered. Stayed 5 nights, 6 days.

 

[nurtz]

We just got back from our first trip to Disney. We had the regular dining plan. 1 table, 1 counter, 1 snack. Honestly, I don't think I would do it again. We spent most of our time planning or getting to reservations. 1 or 2 character meals is all we really needed. We were only there for less than a week. If you miss a meal, you're out of money. And the gratuity was confusing at times, especially for larger parties. I didn't hate the plan - but for those on a shorter stay - I think it's not the best option.

If we go back, I might go with a OOP strategy or time our vacation with the free dining plan. I've learned a lot on the boards and we still had a few issues.

One thing I didn't know (and am MOST UNHAPPY ABOUT) When you check out, you only have the card and the dining credits available until noon that day. We had a party of 7 to feed and planned on a later lunch (with our later flight). Thank goodness a cast member mentioned to quickly use up our credits before noon or they would be forfeit. We scrambled to use 7 counter and 5 snacks in an hour. Not fun. I feel that was a rip-off (cancelling our credits by noon instead of giving us the entire day) and not clearly stated by anyone - from the check-in to any restaurant employee we encountered. Stayed 5 nights, 6 days.

Wow, I don't use the plans but I was under the impression your dining credits were good until midnight of the day you check out. Maybe someone can clarify that? I am sorry you were told that if it was wrong!

 

[lesabrowning]

Dining credits are available until midnight on the day of checkout.

 

[DaniB]

One thing I didn't know (and am MOST UNHAPPY ABOUT) When you check out, you only have the card and the dining credits available until noon that day. We had a party of 7 to feed and planned on a later lunch (with our later flight). Thank goodness a cast member mentioned to quickly use up our credits before noon or they would be forfeit. We scrambled to use 7 counter and 5 snacks in an hour. Not fun. I feel that was a rip-off (cancelling our credits by noon instead of giving us the entire day) and not clearly stated by anyone - from the check-in to any restaurant employee we encountered. Stayed 5 nights, 6 days.

Oh my... that CM gave you incorrect information. The credits are good until midnight on the day you check out! The DDP brochure quite clearly states it as well on the very first page.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/me...alog/WaltDisneyWorld/en_us/PDF/2011Dining.pdf

We had included the DDP on our reservations for our first trip last year. And quite looked forward to the restaurants as part of the park experience. (Later FD came out and was applied to our trip). We really enjoyed the DDP but I can see how people say it doesn't have value. If you don't research the restaurants & their menu's, use it for the more expensive meals, etc - it can easily fall short in value of what you paid. For our upcoming trip, I again created a spreadsheet listing where we wanted to eat and what we would most likely order at TS and CS. Then included $3.50 as the value of a snack. It works out that our meals would cost about $1,423 (incl. tax) if OOP. The DDP would cost $1,349.65. So there's a bit of savings but not much.

Many people don't want to do this kind of indepth research. Too be honest, why should people?

 

[Cafeen]

With relation to the credits, there has been a program bug where they expire at "checkout time" (note, not everyone actually performs a check out). This can be fixed by going to Guest Relations or getting a manager at your resort.

They are intended to be good until midnight following checkout, just the program is buggy.

 

[t_daniels]

On the DDP... if you want to order an app, or alcohol.. can that be put on a separate check from your meal, so you can pay OOP?

 

[havoc315]

This post makes me laugh.... and agree. We are lovers of the dining plans, but completely understand that not everyone vacations like we do. I never understand the hate! LOL I also do not understand how it is "sleazy" or "fraudulent" in any way. It is what it is and Disney lays it out pretty clearly in my opinion. The way I see it, decide where you want to eat and what it will cost. If the total is less than the cost of the dining plan, then the plan is something to consider. If your total cost is less, it is likely not. If it does not save you money, or you don't like the restrictions, don't use the plan! LOL (unless you are just looking for pre paid convenience, to each his own) For us, it saves us money, period. We alternate between the regular dining plan and the deluxe dining plan. We are DVC members, so we have never done "free" dining. We are also AP holders and have compared the dining plans with the Tables in Wonderland card. So far, dining plans save us money and we will use it until they no longer offer us a savings. I agree that discussion is good and many people just have questions. I also appreciate the passion of my fellow Disney lovers. But the Dining Plan hate? makes no sense to me.

What is fraudulent/sleazy, is that Disney does NOT lay it out clearly at all.
For 2012, they do not publish the price. They do not list it on their website. If you ask a cast member on the phone, they will claim there is no direct price because it is part of the "package."
You need to pull out a calculator or read this board, to know the actual price.

If you rely on what Disney is "laying out" -- then all you know is that they recommend you add a plan with up to 20% savings.
They don't "lay out" that those savings are very difficult to achieve. They don't lay out that if you want less than 2-3 desserts per day, it will save you more to skip the plan.
Instead, they just say they can add this recommended feature to your package and save up to 20%. Sounds goods. But it's a very misleading sales pitch.

 

[havoc315]

On the DDP... if you want to order an app, or alcohol.. can that be put on a separate check from your meal, so you can pay OOP?

Yes, you can pay extras oop. No need for a separate check.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Yes, you can pay extras oop. No need for a separate check.

The bills will automatically be separate. DDP items will be on one bill to be paid with credits and the OOP items will be on a separate bill to be paid OOP. It's just how the computers in WDW restaurants work.

 

[angelmav]

HAvoc, you continue to be a valuable source of knowledge! I didnt realize they were no longer publishing the DDP rates, given the price point they are hitting in 2012, that is hardly suprising but I agree, deceptive. If you dont know how much planning you need to do to save because you dont know what the plan costs, chances are you arent going to save anything. Sometimes people on this boards assume that the rest of the public has the same awareness level as those on this board, which is far from the case. Most probably never saved any money, and that was when the information was readily available.

 

[havoc315]

HAvoc, you continue to be a valuable source of knowledge! I didnt realize they were no longer publishing the DDP rates, given the price point they are hitting in 2012, that is hardly suprising but I agree, deceptive. If you dont know how much planning you need to do to save because you dont know what the plan costs, chances are you arent going to save anything. Sometimes people on this boards assume that the rest of the public has the same awareness level as those on this board, which is far from the case. Most probably never saved any money, and that was when the information was readily available.

Precisely. The product (ddp) has become so convoluted and expensive, that it takes hours of research just to understand the plan, and to understand whether you will save money.
How often do we see the same basic questions being asked by novices?

A "savings" plan shouldn't be so confusing and complicated.

Compare it to the TIW card -- set price, set savings. Easy math.

I think many people just "add on" the ddp while they are booking their package, just because they assume it will benefit them, but without fully understanding it.

I do happen to believe most families will still save a little bit on the plan, but the savings are becoming so small for reasonable-eating families (who don't stuff themselves with steak, desserts, soda, and buffets), that it's a real question of the rigidity of the plan, to get a potential 5% savings.