Whose "lane" is it?"

[Mickey'snewestfan]

My car was hit outside of work a couple days ago, and my insurance company is arguing with the other company about liability. What the other person is saying happened is wrong. He is saying that I pulled out in front of him, which I didn't. I wasn't moving and hadn't been moving for like a minute when he hit me. After the accident another man came up to me, and said he saw the whole thing and that he could tell the insurance company that I wasn't moving when he hit me. I figured that if I could convince the company that I wasn't moving it would be clearly his fault, and his insurance would have to pay.

However, I talked to the insurance today and they said they hadn't spoken to the witness yet, but that even if he confirmed that my story is 100% true, if they decide that I was in "his" lane, then I'm liable, but if I was in the "parking lane" I wasn't. This doesn't make sense to me. It seems like if someone "owns" the lane it's the person who was there first, which was me. Anyway, I'm wondering if you can read the following description, which is what I told the insurance company, and tell me if you think it was my fault?


The street I work on is a busy urban street, with 2 lanes of traffic in each direction plus a parking lane on each side, for a total of 6 lanes. My work has a garage and is in the middle of the block. Of course there's not parking in front of the driveway, which is quite wide.

I pulled into the driveway to go into the garage and noticed that a delivery truck was in the lane blocking access to the spots, so I needed to pull out. I did a 3 point turn. At the end of the turn I was at an angle, probably 20 degrees off the direction of traffic, in the same position I would be in if I was pulling out of a parrallel parking space. In that position, the cars behind me (parked) blocked my view of the oncoming traffic that I wanted to merge with, so I inched forward. I went just forward enough that I could see in my mirror the cars that were coming. My left front wheel and bumper were sticking out slightly into the street a few inches past the bumpers of the parked cars. Because I was at an angle, they didn't stick out much, just a few inches.

Cars were coming, so of course I stopped. Traffic flowed past me in both lanes. The light down the block had just turned green, so at first both lanes were full of cars. The cars in the lane closer to me were able to pass easily without slowing down or going into the left hand lane. Then traffic slowed down so that it was an occasional car. I still didn't go at this time and stayed in the exact spot I'd been in when the traffic was flowing. I saw a car about a block down, and then a break in traffic. I figured I'd be able to go in that break.

I continued to watch the car down the block, as it got closer. It was either at the very left of the right lane, or actually straddling where the lane line would be (the lane line is worn out so as not to be visible at that point). It wasn't speeding, so I assumed that the driver saw me. I actually thought about pulling into the lane and letting him move over to the left, but I didn't because I'm a chicken. I stayed still in the exact same position I'd been in for the past minute or so.

He then moved to the right in his lane, and as he went past his rear view mirror hit mine, and his front wheel hit my wheel. My mirror is completely off, my steering column is broken, and I need a new wheel. My car had to be towed away from the scene.

So, did he have a responsibility to drive around me? Or was it his lane somehow and it's my fault for being in his lane? I figure it would be my fault if I pulled in front of him, but I didn't, he was blocks away when I pulled out. I'm wondering if I'm explaining it wrong, if they're picturing something that's different from what actually happened, based on my explanation, so I want to know what other people are picturing.

 

[SaraJayne]

My car was hit outside of work a couple days ago, and my insurance company is arguing with the other company about liability. What the other person is saying happened is wrong. He is saying that I pulled out in front of him, which I didn't. I wasn't moving and hadn't been moving for like a minute when he hit me. After the accident another man came up to me, and said he saw the whole thing and that he could tell the insurance company that I wasn't moving when he hit me. I figured that if I could convince the company that I wasn't moving it would be clearly his fault, and his insurance would have to pay.

However, I talked to the insurance today and they said they hadn't spoken to the witness yet, but that even if he confirmed that my story is 100% true, if they decide that I was in "his" lane, then I'm liable, but if I was in the "parking lane" I wasn't. This doesn't make sense to me. It seems like if someone "owns" the lane it's the person who was there first, which was me. Anyway, I'm wondering if you can read the following description, which is what I told the insurance company, and tell me if you think it was my fault?


The street I work on is a busy urban street, with 2 lanes of traffic in each direction plus a parking lane on each side, for a total of 6 lanes. My work has a garage and is in the middle of the block. Of course there's not parking in front of the driveway, which is quite wide.

I pulled into the driveway to go into the garage and noticed that a delivery truck was in the lane blocking access to the spots, so I needed to pull out. I did a 3 point turn. At the end of the turn I was at an angle, probably 20 degrees off the direction of traffic, in the same position I would be in if I was pulling out of a parrallel parking space. In that position, the cars behind me (parked) blocked my view of the oncoming traffic that I wanted to merge with, so I inched forward. I went just forward enough that I could see in my mirror the cars that were coming. My left front wheel and bumper were sticking out slightly into the street a few inches past the bumpers of the parked cars. Because I was at an angle, they didn't stick out much, just a few inches.

Cars were coming, so of course I stopped. Traffic flowed past me in both lanes. The light down the block had just turned green, so at first both lanes were full of cars. The cars in the lane closer to me were able to pass easily without slowing down or going into the left hand lane. Then traffic slowed down so that it was an occasional car. I still didn't go at this time and stayed in the exact spot I'd been in when the traffic was flowing. I saw a car about a block down, and then a break in traffic. I figured I'd be able to go in that break.

I continued to watch the car down the block, as it got closer. It was either at the very left of the right lane, or actually straddling where the lane line would be (the lane line is worn out so as not to be visible at that point). It wasn't speeding, so I assumed that the driver saw me. I actually thought about pulling into the lane and letting him move over to the left, but I didn't because I'm a chicken. I stayed still in the exact same position I'd been in for the past minute or so.

He then moved to the right in his lane, and as he went past his rear view mirror hit mine, and his front wheel hit my wheel. My mirror is completely off, my steering column is broken, and I need a new wheel. My car had to be towed away from the scene.

So, did he have a responsibility to drive around me? Or was it his lane somehow and it's my fault for being in his lane? I figure it would be my fault if I pulled in front of him, but I didn't, he was blocks away when I pulled out. I'm wondering if I'm explaining it wrong, if they're picturing something that's different from what actually happened, based on my explanation, so I want to know what other people are picturing.

I'm having a hard time picturing what you are saying. Did you do a 3 pt turn in the middle of the street or in the garage?

And so you were sticking out into traffic, even though you weren't moving?

Is that right?

 

[sparklynails23]

Technically, you shouldn't be sticking out in the driving lane unless there's room to pull out. So, it might be your fault. Sounds like the other guys was dialing or texting, but if there's no proof, what do you do?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It sounds like your insurance company *may* have a point. But I don't know the laws of your state.

He has an expectation that the roadway would be clear even if technically he is a moron.

This is what car horns are for--when you notice something is going to happen, you have a chance to stop it.

My husband hates the moments when I use mine or make him use his--but if someone is about to hit you and you can catch their attention to stop it--much better than having to deal with a collision.

 

[ncmickeyluvr]

Let me see if I understand: You were in the parking lane with the front end of your car sticking out into the driving lane?

If that's the case, it sounds like it would be your fault. It would be NICE and SMART for the other driver to avoid you but it was his lane. Sorry.

 

[sam_gordon]

If I understand correctly, I think you're going to be at fault. Your car (part of it) was in a travel lane. It doesn't matter why the other driver didn't see you, your car was the hazard.

I'm not an insurance adjuster/traffic reconstructionalist/lawyer, nor do I play any of them on TV.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I did the 3 point in the driveway of the garage.

As far as not being out in traffic. There was no way to see if cars were coming without pull out enough to see. So how would I know when to pull out if I didn't pull a little out? I pulled out and then stopped and watched for a break in traffic.

Like I said, I was barely out, only far enough that I could look out and see if someone was coming. I don't know how you pull out if you can't see who is coming. If I was parallel to the other cars, of course, I would have looked in my rear view mirror, but the driveway wasn't quite wide enough for me to get in that position, so I had to pull forwards a few inches. Because I was at an angle, I didn't have to pull forwards far, like I would if I was going straight ahead.

I was not as far out, as an open door would have been on a parked car, or as a person who was standing next to the closed door of a parked car would be. If someone opens the door to their car, and then someone comes onto the block, don't they have a responsibility to drive around that person's door? Is it OK to just hit the door?

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

If I had stopped to wait to pull safely into a parrallel parking space, so that I was all the way in the lane of traffic, would it still have been "his lane"?

I guess if I was there first, in clear view of him (and I agree he was probably texting, or turning the radio, or something) then why is it "his" lane?

 

[Beth921]

If any part of your car is blocking the flow of traffic, the resulting accident would be your fault. I understand that's disappointing, but it doesn't really matter how much you are blocking the lane, the fact is that you were. That's just how it is.
I don't understand why you couldn't have made use of your mirrors to see if there were cars coming instead of placing yourself into the flow of traffic.
Sorry

 

[castmember19]

My best friend was recently in a similar fight with insurance because she was waiting in a lane to turn and a man didn't see her and hit her. Insurance said it was her fault because the man had the right of way, since she was turning onto the street where he hit her.

Her mom threw a fit and argued with cops at the scene saying that it wasn't fair that he was "allowed" to hit her since she wasn't moving, and the cop maintained that if she wasn't sure, she shouldn't have pulled out. Since cops can't be there to see the scene unfold and determine who was ethically correct, they have to go by the rules of the road. And the rules of the road say that if you're coming onto the main street, the other car has the right of way. If you don't have the right of way, you're usually at fault. Understand?

It sucks and it's not always fair, but it is technically "his" lane no matter the details are. He could have practically hit you on purpose and he would still have the right of way.

At least that's what the cop led me to believe, though he didn't actually say that last sentence.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

But that's my point. I wasn't blocking the flow of traffic. Plenty of cars had driven past in both lanes, often at the same time (e.g. the one in the lane I'm accused of being in didn't have to move over into the next lane), before this car came. No one slowed down or moved over. If they were in the middle of the lane, they just went past.

I couldn't look out my rear view mirror, because the driveway isn't wide enough for me to be in a "parrallel parking position". So, I would have been coming out head first, but because I didn't want to stick into the lane of traffic, I pulled so that I was angled as far to the right as possible.

But if I'd looked into my rear view mirror, without pulling forward a little, I would have seen the building behind me and the sidwalk, which wouldn't have given me any information about traffic.

 

[sam_gordon]

I get your argument. I just don't think it's going to hold up. He was traveling on the street. You are entering from a driveway. He has the right of way.

 

[diznygirl]

It sounds like your insurance company *may* have a point. But I don't know the laws of your state.

He has an expectation that the roadway would be clear even if technically he is a moron.

This is what car horns are for--when you notice something is going to happen, you have a chance to stop it.

My husband hates the moments when I use mine or make him use his--but if someone is about to hit you and you can catch their attention to stop it--much better than having to deal with a collision.

I love this explanation!

Yes, unfortunately the insurance company is going to go by the fact that the traffic lane where cars are moving was his and not yours since you weren't moving and hadn't entered it yet to make it yours. I'm guessing that if you had pulled out in front of him and then were in complete possession of the lane and then he rear-ended you, then he would be at fault.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I love this explanation!

Yes, unfortunately the insurance company is going to go by the fact that the traffic lane where cars are moving was his and not yours since you weren't moving and hadn't entered it yet to make it yours. I'm guessing that if you had pulled out in front of him and then were in complete possession of the lane and then he rear-ended you, then he would be at fault.

That's what I'm not getting.

Either, I was in the parking lane, in which case he came into my lane, or I was in the lane of traffic, in which case I had "entered it". If I was in the parking lane, then it's his fault, if I was in the driving lane, then I was there before he came on the block, so it was "my" lane.

They actually asked me "at any time were you in the same lane?" Ummm, yes, clearly the part of my car (the rear view mirror) and the part of his car (the rear view mirror) that initially collided were in the same lane. I don't know which lane, or whose lane, but they definitely were in the same lane.

 

[RachelEllen]

I don't even think it matters if you were all the way in the lane or not. You can't be an impediment to the flow of traffic.

We were in a bad accident a few years ago on the highway. A car, a few cars in front of us, was being driven by someone not familiar with the road. The driver pulled over to look at a map. Except, instead of pulling into the breakdown lane (boneheaded in and of itself), he just pulled into the right most lane of traffic.

All we saw was the car directly in front of us swerve violently to the side and then we hit.

I thought we would be at fault since we "rear ended" the other driver. And, in fact, if the driver in front of us suddenly stopped we would have been charged with following too closely. But, because we weren't speeding and hit a car that basically suddenly appeared in front of us, the other car was deemed to be obstructing the road, he was at fault.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

So, if there are 3 lanes on one side of the center line, two with traffic, and one parking, and there aren't visible lines between them, where is the division? How do I know which lane I was in?

Like I said, I wasn't farther out than a person would be standing to open their door. My mirror wasn't further out than the mirror of a UPS truck or a vehicle that was wider than mine would be. Is that still the parking lane, or is that the driving lane? Where's the line?

Also, to be clear, if I was stopped IN the driving lane. For example, if I had driven past a parking space and had stopped to back in, and then waited for a couple cars to go past, do I have the right of way then? Is the issue that I was partially in/out, or is it that I was stopped and he was driving?

 

[diznygirl]

I don't even think it matters if you were all the way in the lane or not. You can't be an impediment to the flow of traffic.

So, if there are 3 lanes on one side of the center line, two with traffic, and one parking, and there aren't visible lines between them, where is the division? How do I know which lane I was in?

Like I said, I wasn't farther out than a person would be standing to open their door. My mirror wasn't further out than the mirror of a UPS truck or a vehicle that was wider than mine would be. Is that still the parking lane, or is that the driving lane? Where's the line?

Also, to be clear, if I was stopped IN the driving lane. For example, if I had driven past a parking space and had stopped to back in, and then waited for a couple cars to go past, do I have the right of way then? Is the issue that I was partially in/out, or is it that I was stopped and he was driving?

It's that you were technically impeding traffic by the part of your car that was in the traffic lane and you weren't moving.

Placing blame isn't always about what's fair. We rear-ended a car whose engine seized up and stopped in front of us.

 

[Pakey]

If someone in a parked car opened their door into the traffic lane, they would be at fault too. So I still think you could be at fault here.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

My dad is a retired police sergeant who worked traffic detail for many years. He taught me that the person who has established forward motion in a traffic lane has the right of way. Anyone who pulls into the lane without allowing adequate time for "right of way" traffic to pass is most likely at fault for any accident that results. Yes, the other guy may have been able to slow down and avoid the accident, but that won't be a factor if you were found to have violated his right of way.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

If someone in a parked car opened their door into the traffic lane, they would be at fault too. So I still think you could be at fault here.

Absolutely.

But if you were at a red light, and while you were stopped someone opened their door, and hadn't closed it yet when the light turned green and you came onto the block and you hit the door, would it still be their fault? If so, in the city, when are you allowed to open the door to get out?

To be clear, this is not exactly right, because the people who were at the red light had already passed me without slowing down or moving over, this guy was a couple blocks behind the people who had been at the light.