Who's staying at the Four Seasons?

[wilde_oscar]

agreed on the idea of selling off the land, that has potential to come back and bite them... the amount of space is finite, and time is infinite.

 

[Mish19]

I am just dreading all the perks that the Four Seasons hotel guests will have. Can you imagine - Super FastPass lines, park days all to themselves, exclusive restaurants, their own character to follow them around all day....Oh boy.

 

[soupy11]

Whether you agree with the phrase "outsourcing" or not is really besides the point.

Disney is selling chunks of land to outside vendors and there in lies the rub.

Were this Four Seasons on anything other than Disney property, no one would think twice.

Within a few square miles, we will now have a Ritz Carlton, a Waldorf Astoria (one of the most fabled residence hotels in the world) and Four Seasons.

We have to wonder, is Kissimmee really calling for that number of 5 star hotels?
While we all thought it was weird that Disney didn't buy the Bonnet Creek property, there was not the "sick in the pit of your stomach" feeling when they announced the Waldorf Astoria, as there is for the Four Seasons.

The difference??? They didt sell off part of WDW to build it.

It's an expensive gamble to say the least, yikes.


I wonder if the offer was too good to be true? (from disney's perspective?)

 

[WebmasterPete]

heard Pete and Kevin mention that the rooms at the Four Seasons, Waldorf Astoria, and Ritz Carlton (which is the SAME as the Four Seasons FYI) could be had for the mere price of $1,500 or $2,000 per NIGHT!!

That was hyperbole. I have no idea what the actual per night cost of the rooms there will be

Pete

 

[disneyholic family]

That was hyperbole. I have no idea what the actual per night cost of the rooms there will be

Pete

the waldorf in NY is in about the same range as the GF in terms of prices....the four seasons at least twice that...
i'm not familiar with prices at the ritz carlton...

 

[luke]

ritz Carlton grande lakes is a bit less than grand floridian, but it is quite out of the way so a primer location should bump that up?

 

[BriarRosie]

I wanted to post a correction to what I posted earlier. I think I had the location of the new Four Seasons confused with the location of either the Ritz Carlton or Waldorf Astoria proposed for the Eagle Pines site.

The Four Seasons is part of the Western Way project, no? I just wanted to get some clarification that the sold land is part of that.

There's so much stuff out there about the gentrification of Disney that I think I had my apples and oranges mixed up.

 

[MenashaCorp]

I say we only allow these people to enter WDW through France in EPCOT... after replacing the Eiffel Tower model with a guillotine...

Got my knitting needles ready....

 

[disneyholic family]

I say we only allow these people to enter WDW through France in EPCOT... after replacing the Eiffel Tower model with a guillotine...

Got my knitting needles ready....

(although i probably shouldn't be laughing since i probably resemble that remark )

 

[wishspirit]

I am just dreading all the perks that the Four Seasons hotel guests will have. Can you imagine - Super FastPass lines, park days all to themselves, exclusive restaurants, their own character to follow them around all day....Oh boy.

If they give them ANY extra perks i will be so cross!!

ARGH!

Back to normal programming!

 

[MenashaCorp]

(although i probably shouldn't be laughing since i probably resemble that remark )

I probably do, too.... and I can't even knit!!

It's just so non-WALT Disney. He catered to the rich a bit (Club 33, private airstrip,...) but I can't imagine he'd like the idea of selling off land so near the parks.

 

[ADP]

I have to agree with Kevin. When Disney first announced this Four Seasons project over a year or so ago it was a sad day. Not only was Disney selling off a chunk of land for this property, but it was a huge chunk of land in a prime location somewhat near the Magic Kingdom. This parcel of land is so big it consumed the Eagle Pines golf course and surrounding area. We are not talking about just a hotel resort, but there are also time share condominiums and single family vacation homes as well. If I remember correctly, I thought I read something about the Osprey Ridge golf course getting reconstructed and becoming the golf course for the Four Seasons community. I hope that is not true.

This map gives you an idea of the land used by the Four Seasons resort, timeshares and single family vacation homes. It's the spot marked Northeast Resort Area.

 

[disneyholic family]

I have to agree with Kevin. When Disney first announced this Four Seasons project over a year or so ago it was a sad day. Not only was Disney selling off a chunk of land for this property, but it was a huge chunk of land in a prime location somewhat near the Magic Kingdom. This parcel of land is so big it consumed the Eagle Pines golf course and surrounding area. We are not talking about just a hote resort, but there are also time share condominiums and single family vacation homes as well. If I remember correctly, I thought I read something about the Osprey Ridge golf course getting reconstructed and becoming the golf course for the Four Seasons community. I hope that is not true.

This map gives you an idea of the land used by the Four Seasons resort, timeshares and single family vacation homes. It's the spot marked Northeast Resort Area.

thanks for posting that....i couldn't figure out what area we were talking about....
is that near fort wilderness? if you keep driving past fort wilderness, do you get to there?

in the map, what is the light purple area?

 

[BriarRosie]

I have to agree with Kevin. When Disney first announced this Four Seasons project over a year or so ago it was a sad day. Not only was Disney selling off a chunk of land for this property, but it was a huge chunk of land in a prime location somewhat near the Magic Kingdom. This parcel of land is so big it consumed the Eagle Pines golf course and surrounding area. We are not talking about just a hote resort, but there are also time share condominiums and single family vacation homes as well. If I remember correctly, I thought I read something about the Osprey Ridge golf course getting reconstructed and becoming the golf course for the Four Seasons community. I hope that is not true.

This map gives you an idea of the land used by the Four Seasons resort, timeshares and single family vacation homes. It's the spot marked Northeast Resort Area.

Ok, that's the thing. I knew the Northeast area was the Eagle Pines (not Osprey Ridge, although I think they could almost be interchangeable at this point) development. In my first post, I thought it was going there. But after hearing stuff on other podcasts (yes, I share the love with other podcasts), I was given the impression that it was the Western Way development that was sold. I'm totally confused now.

Was I right the first time or was I right the second time? I know I was wrong some of the time.

 

[mshoo1]

While I agree with the comments on selling off Disney property, I have to agree that Disney needs at least one truly deluxe five-star resort on property. I have had the good fortune to stay in many very nice hotels--thankfully at a cost to my employer rather than me personally . Based on my personal experience, there is a significant gap in the service, room furnishings, and amenities offered by the Ritz Carltons and Four Seasons of the world as compared to the Grand Floridian or the Polynesian.

I have heard several people that I work with (Washington DC lawyers/lobbyists) say that they stayed at the Grand Floridian and were disappointed. For these people, paying another $200/night or more over the GF price is not that big of a deal if they get the service, furnishings, and amenities they are accustomed to.

They also spend a ridiculous amount of money while they are in Disney World. I would be willing to bet that the lead partners at my firm spend up to ten times as much as the average Disney visitor. If I'm Disney, I want that money to be spent on-property--not out in Grande Lakes. This is about alot more than lodging revenue. The high-income visitor is also, on average, far less affected by periods of economic downturns than the typical visitor.

I have no idea if Orlando has sufficient high-income visitors to support four five-star hotels. But I would bet the farm that if one of those five-star hotels is on Disney property--it's going to be a success.

 

[wilde_oscar]

While I agree with the comments on selling off Disney property, I have to agree that Disney needs at least one truly deluxe five-star resort on property. I have had the good fortune to stay in many very nice hotels--thankfully at a cost to my employer rather than me personally . Based on my personal experience, there is a significant gap in the service, room furnishings, and amenities offered by the Ritz Carltons and Four Seasons of the world as compared to the Grand Floridian or the Polynesian.

I have heard several people that I work with (Washington DC lawyers/lobbyists) say that they stayed at the Grand Floridian and were disappointed. For these people, paying another $200/night or more over the GF price is not that big of a deal if they get the service, furnishings, and amenities they are accustomed to.

They also spend a ridiculous amount of money while they are in Disney World. I would be willing to bet that the lead partners at my firm spend up to ten times as much as the average Disney visitor. If I'm Disney, I want that money to be spent on-property--not out in Grande Lakes. This is about alot more than lodging revenue. The high-income visitor is also, on average, far less affected by periods of economic downturns than the typical visitor.

I have no idea if Orlando has sufficient high-income visitors to support four five-star hotels. But I would bet the farm that if one of those five-star hotels is on Disney property--it's going to be a success.

Ding, ding, ding ding... this is exactly what I mean when I say that the GF is not 5 star and does not provide the level of service that the High Income vacation traveler is accustomed. Yeah, it is pricey for the avg. traveler... but the cost of the room per night is a fraction of what they spend at a resort at this level. This level of customer is not impacted by fluctuations in the economy, and wants a highly catered personal experience... the hotels managers that can make that happen don't get lured away from the 5 star resorts very easy... for instance the Bartender at my favorite bar in the world, the bar only seats about 10 people, she speaks about 10 languages fluently, conversational in another 10 or so, remembers your name and drink and what language you speak from year to year, works about 6 months out of the year depending on how ski season goes and does well enough to have a vacation home in the wine region of France. Complaints that Disney can do this level of resort if then wanted to... well they want to, so they are going to the people that can make it happen. They could/should have done a long term lease on the land? Four Seasons doesn't go for that in any of their locations. And let's consider Dubai Land... Major Theme parks that are set up to accommodate the world's elite wealth, to get that customer they are going to have to compete, and soon. The WDW/Four Seasons vacation home (fractional ownership) project is racing the clock to get the dollars what would other wise goto Dubai. There, the 1000's of multi million dollar resort beach homes sold out in days after going on the market, before they were built. This is a long term investment that WDW/Four Seasons is making to get the customer that will drop $2000-$10000 a day on vacation and keep them on property.

 

[ADP]

thanks for posting that....i couldn't figure out what area we were talking about....
is that near fort wilderness? if you keep driving past fort wilderness, do you get to there?

in the map, what is the light purple area?

That is correct. I'm not sure what the light purple represents on the map.

Ok, that's the thing. I knew the Northeast area was the Eagle Pines (not Osprey Ridge, although I think they could almost be interchangeable at this point) development. In my first post, I thought it was going there. But after hearing stuff on other podcasts (yes, I share the love with other podcasts), I was given the impression that it was the Western Way development that was sold. I'm totally confused now.

Was I right the first time or was I right the second time? I know I was wrong some of the time.

The Western Way and Four Seasons are two totally separate projects. Both are identified in two separate areas on the map.

 

[wilde_oscar]

That is correct. I'm not sure what the light purple represents on the map.

the light purple at the south end of property is preserved wetlands, never to be developed

 

[MenashaCorp]

the light purple at the south end of property is preserved wetlands, never to be developed**

**subject to change "in response to guest demand..."

 

[MODisFan]

**subject to change "in response to guest demand..."