Who Thinks That The 2008 Diney Plan Will Change?

[Lewisc]

I think an automatic gratuity/service charge, paid by the customer, is the most likely solution if DDP guests tip lower then projected.

I don't see Disney even considering including the tip unless the tip was a fixed dollar amount, that's releated to the price the guest pays for the plan. I don't see Disney ever going back to a system that rewarded servers who encouraged guests to "over order".

 

[clkelley]

I know a lot of us would like to have that choice, but I'll give you two reasons why I don't think they will do it.

First, if they made that offer, half of a party would order appetizers, the other half would order desserts, and they'd share...which Disney doesn't want. They have not chosen to actually prohibit sharing, but they are not going to create a vehicle which would enable sharing.

The second reason is if you make that offer what you are really doing in terms of restaurant capacity is adding another course (add 30 minutes) to the meal. I suspect that the real benefit to Disney of the deletion of the appetizer is NOT the food cost savings, but the higher turnover in the restaurants it provides. If much of their restaurant business is DDP participants (and I think it is), and you can cut 30 minutes off those dining times, you add a lot of table-turns over the course of a day. Multiply that by 365 and it's a whopping big number of additional meals served ($$$).

Both the appetizer deletion and the removal of the gratuity were money decisions by Disney management, and I don't see them giving up those revenue gains unless they dramatically raise the price.

I reallly, reallly wish they had deleted the desert instead of the appetizer. When we did the dining last September it was really hard finding deserts we could take with us. (Desert should be a couple hours after a meal, not right after).

 

[TLSnell1981]

Bicker, I think you hit the nail on the head. This is where a lot of disagreements begin. Customers believe the amount should be left to their discretion and servers want a guarantee. Those that feel entitled to 18%....some feel it should be 20%-22%. You have customers that feel 15%-20% is acceptable for TS, but should be less for buffets. You have some employers that base tip outs on sales. The problem lies in...there is no standard. Maybe, we should overhaul the system and go European...where a gratuity really does mean what the dictionary says.

 

[just another guy]

I think the servers informing guests what the "standard" or acceptable "gratuity" is really rubs some of us the wrong way. A gratuity is not an entitlement. It is "a gift, given above what is required". How would you feel if you received a wedding invitation stating what the "standard" amount of a gift should be...what is "acceptable"? Is this comparing apples to oranges? A gift is a gift and auto grat is a service charge.

Well, just as there are standards for tipping at a restaurant(15-20%), I am VERY sure there are standards for a wedding as well.

A keg, come doritos, and a local preacher in a back yard may only result in some hi-5's and chipping in for the beer money. If a wedding costs 25K, such as a friend's wedding that is being planned, if you show up with a sub-par gift, it will be looked down upon, just as a sub-par tip would be at a nice restaurant.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well, just as there are standards for tipping at a restaurant(15-20%), I am VERY sure there are standards for a wedding as well.

A keg, come doritos, and a local preacher in a back yard may only result in some hi-5's and chipping in for the beer money. If a wedding costs 25K, such as a friend's wedding that is being planned, if you show up with a sub-par gift, it will be looked down upon, just as a sub-par tip would be at a nice restaurant.

I used to own a restaurant. I had excellent employees that made good tips. They worked hard and were pleasant. Some tips were good , but some weren't. There were times when great tips came there way and they were very appreciative. Overall, it averaged out and I never heard them bad mouth customers.

I can't imagine many people ( maybe you do) make their guest list, for their wedding, by how much someone can afford to spend on a gift. How gauche!

 

[just another guy]

I can't imagine many people ( maybe you do) make their guest list, for their wedding, by how much someone can afford to spend on a gift. How gauche!

Now this is getting off topic, but yes, I've known people who spend WAY more money than they should on a wedding, and thus plan on getting more in gifts.

I guess its like a server at a nicer restaurant expects more in tips that the lady at Denny's.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Now this is getting off topic, but yes, I've known people who spend WAY more money than they should on a wedding, and thus plan on getting more in gifts.

I guess its like a server at a nicer restaurant expects more in tips that the lady at Denny's.

Yes, this is off topic...How does the amount spent on a wedding correlate into "more" gifts? You can spend a fortune on a small wedding of quality. If you want a better return on your money, I would suggest you invest it.(if that is your purpose for inviting guests...or gift bearers...or whatever you call them)

Back to a little closer to topic....Yes, you could expect to receive more money in a more expensive restaurant.....but that isn't the only factor. Working in an establishment that has consistent buisness would be another. If you are wanting a guaranteed salary, I suggest waiting tables may not be what you are looking for....especially when you look down on a customer who doesn't give you what you are worthy of...I mean...what you expect.

Now, back on topic...no, I do not believe the DDP will ever return to what it was. Maybe, it will be a variant of what it once was....but with a higher price tag.

I will stop my rant before this gets moved to the community board....if it's not too late.

 

[DVC Sadie]

As I have stated in other threads I do believe that Disney will change their DPs in the future to add 18% across the board whether or not they are on any of the dining plans or paying OOP. Disney cannot afford to have wait staff quit enmass due to being stiffed.

The only other changes I see in any of the DPs would be an increase of cost.

 

[angelmav]

As I have stated in other threads I do believe that Disney will change their DPs in the future to add 18% across the board whether or not they are on any of the dining plans or paying OOP. Disney cannot afford to have wait staff quit enmass due to being stiffed.

The only other changes I see in any of the DPs would be an increase of cost.

I quite agree with you that its only a matter of time until this is across the board for all diners. However this brings up a point that I hadnt thought of before, since the DDP has been so immensely popular and since servers were guaranteed that 18% and up for, lets say 2/3'rds of all diners, then the prevailing wage for said servers became that 18%. The DDP has effectively altered the wage scale for servers and in order to keep said servers happy they will be forced to make this change across the board.

BTW, I have no problems with it being mandatory across the board, then all can share in the misery equally.

 

[JimMIA]

As I have stated in other threads I do believe that Disney will change their DPs in the future to add 18% across the board whether or not they are on any of the dining plans or paying OOP. Disney cannot afford to have wait staff quit enmass due to being stiffed.

The only other changes I see in any of the DPs would be an increase of cost.

I agree that they will eventually institute a service charge. I don't think it needs to be -- or will be -- 18%.

I think it will be 15%, for several reasons.

First of all, 15% across the board is probably somewhat more money than is being paid in tips today, and 18% on every check is unnecessarily high. Although we usually tip 20% (wife was a server in college), I can understand someone thinking 18% is too high; I can't understand anyone saying 15% is too much.

Second, any money spent in tips is money families don't have available for other profit-generating expenditures at WDW -- snacks, trinkets, etc, etc.

Third, and possibly most important, I think Disney really does try to keep WDW as affordable as they can for families.

I think a 15% service charge would be a boon for servers in the TS restaurants. It would ensure they get a reasonable tip from every guest, and those of us who tip 18-20% now would continue to do so.

 

[Lewisc]

The first year of the current DDP (2005) the servers were paid a 15% gratuity. It was claimed by servers the contract required an 18% gratuity. Disney though 15% was proper since the total check was higher then normal. The compromise was to wait until 2006 to increase the gratuity to 18%. That gave Disney an opportunity to re-price the plan.

Otherwise the automatic gratuity for larger parties has been 18% for a long time. Disney has an automatic 18% gratuity for DDE checks. I think 18% is too high for buffets but I can't see Disney going to a lower number unless Disney is going back to including the gratuity. I can't see Disney "fighting" with the union just to save guests money.

There are a number of posters who think a 10% tip is more then enough at a buffet. Other posters don't like any automatic tip. I think you're kidding yourself if you think a 15% automatic tip will be tolerated that much more then an 18% automatic tip.

I agree that they will eventually institute a service charge. I don't think it needs to be -- or will be -- 18%.

I think it will be 15%, for several reasons.

First of all, 15% across the board is probably somewhat more money than is being paid in tips today, and 18% on every check is unnecessarily high. Although we usually tip 20% (wife was a server in college), I can understand someone thinking 18% is too high; I can't understand anyone saying 15% is too much.

Second, any money spent in tips is money families don't have available for other profit-generating expenditures at WDW -- snacks, trinkets, etc, etc.

Third, and possibly most important, I think Disney really does try to keep WDW as affordable as they can for families.

I think a 15% service charge would be a boon for servers in the TS restaurants. It would ensure they get a reasonable tip from every guest, and those of us who tip 18-20% now would continue to do so.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I quite agree with you that its only a matter of time until this is across the board for all diners. However this brings up a point that I hadnt thought of before, since the DDP has been so immensely popular and since servers were guaranteed that 18% and up for, lets say 2/3'rds of all diners, then the prevailing wage for said servers became that 18%. The DDP has effectively altered the wage scale for servers and in order to keep said servers happy they will be forced to make this change across the board.

BTW, I have no problems with it being mandatory across the board, then all can share in the misery equally.

I quite agree. Misery does love company.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I agree that they will eventually institute a service charge. I don't think it needs to be -- or will be -- 18%.

I think it will be 15%, for several reasons.

First of all, 15% across the board is probably somewhat more money than is being paid in tips today, and 18% on every check is unnecessarily high. Although we usually tip 20% (wife was a server in college), I can understand someone thinking 18% is too high; I can't understand anyone saying 15% is too much.

Second, any money spent in tips is money families don't have available for other profit-generating expenditures at WDW -- snacks, trinkets, etc, etc.

Third, and possibly most important, I think Disney really does try to keep WDW as affordable as they can for families.

I think a 15% service charge would be a boon for servers in the TS restaurants. It would ensure they get a reasonable tip from every guest, and those of us who tip 18-20% now would continue to do so.

I do agree with your post.

15% or 18% is not that much difference but it would definitely cut out any stiffing, which would be a huge benefit to all servers.

 

[just another guy]

15% or 18% is not that much difference but it would definitely cut out any stiffing, which would be a huge benefit to all servers.

Oddly, I'll argue that. There is a decent number of people who "claim" they always tip 20-30% but "feel insulted" if there is an automatic tip included. These people could easily just leave another $5 or $10 on top of the auto grat, but they again go back to the "I feel insulted" excuse as to why they don't.

 

[angelmav]

Oddly, I'll argue that. There is a decent number of people who "claim" they always tip 20-30% but "feel insulted" if there is an automatic tip included. These people could easily just leave another $5 or $10 on top of the auto grat, but they again go back to the "I feel insulted" excuse as to why they don't.

So now a guaranteed 15-18% isnt good enough because of missing out on some of the bigger tippers? Just what point are you trying to argue?

I definitely went into the wrong line of work.

 

[just another guy]

So now a guaranteed 15-18% isnt good enough because of missing out on some of the bigger tippers? Just what point are you trying to argue?

If I was still a server, I would be all for a 15% grat on every table. I'm just saying that I averaged more than 15% overall. On a good night, I could hit 20%. On a bad night, maybe 14%. For that reason, I think most decent servers would be against the full 15% on every check.

As to that I said about leaving extra, I've seen it mentioned many times in this forum. The person typically says, "I was going to leave $20, but the server put an automatic 18% which was 17.23, so he lost out on almost $3!" Yeah, sounds completely stupid to me, but to each their own. Oddly, there are 20% tippers out there that if they are FORCED to leave 15%, won't leave any extra.

 

[angelmav]

Yes, but thats the trade-off for getting that guaranteed %, which is Much, much higher than just about anywere else they could be working. Not to mention, Disney isnt exactly slashing prices on their meals, so I think they would make out just fine. If 18% was the target, they should have turned out to vote and keep the old arrangement. To suggest a guaranteed 15% across the board isnt good enough because some high roller may be offended by the service charge, well that comes across as a bit greedy and short sighted IMO.

Bear in mind, we are discussing the fall-out from the 08' plan, to which many think the result will be servers getting stiffed in the very near future. That action will, in the opinion of myself and many others, result in Disney having to add some sort of Auto-grat.

If I was a Disney server, considering what 15% is 15% of, I think I could live with 100% of my patrons tipping that amount.

 

[DVC Sadie]

So now a guaranteed 15-18% isnt good enough because of missing out on some of the bigger tippers? Just what point are you trying to argue?

I agree with you!

The people who tip 15%, or 18% will always tip more and not be insulted. The people who complain that they are insulted so therefore will not tip more are just fooling themselves and trying to fool everyone else, IMO.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I agree with you!

The people who tip 15%, or 18% will always tip more and not be insulted. The people who complain that they are insulted so therefore will not tip more are just fooling themselves and trying to fool everyone else, IMO.

You can believe whatever you want. Ask the servers. I know servers who will not add the auto grat for large parties. They know they are good and will cost themselves money. Most people will not give more if the gratuity is already added. Especially, after what I've read on this board, the service and food will have to be superb for me to take the time to refigure my "gratuity".

 

[Brian Noble]

I can believe that---especially considering most people tip on the post-tax amount, but the 18% is presumably on the pre-tax amount.