Who is refusing Common Core tests for 3rd-8th graders?

[Happy Snowman]

You are right they have been around for decades, but decades ago the only ones worth stressing over were the SATs. I'm pretty sure your children are not in elementary school any longer, so maybe you aren't personally aware of the issues people have with their children taking these tests. Its not just about "change" its about the needless stress put upon the teachers and kids for the sake of these tests.

Sorry, but we were "stressed" about these tests too. We prepped for a couple weeks for the tests, the schools sent out notes to make sure we got enough sleep and ate well before the tests, etc. The kids are not the ones "stressing" over the tests, the parents are...and some administrations. This was way back in the 70's too....

This is something I could see being an issue in many schools. I know most of the public use computers in my high school was awful (The ones in the IT lab, the typing class, in the electronics, buisiness, and computer aided drafting shops, etc were good but that wouldn't be enough to test on unless only one grade was testing and you kicked everyone else out of those classes too). Almost all computers in my middle school were awful. Granted this was a number of years ago so maybe they have gotten better in most places... but if not I would hate to have taken a computer test on those.

My first computer based standardized test was the GRE for grad school in 2009, but I took that at my college testing center, so it was specifically set up for us to take tests like the GRE.

I took my first computer test on something that looked like this....

Actually I'm 28 and I remember students freaking out some about the CAT tests in elementary school (we had to do these every year, although it was only a few hours a day for 3-4 days). My state then made the MCAS tests and started giving those to 4th, 8th, and 10th graders. I know I took it in 8th grade so that meant we had it by the year 2000.

Then for the graduating class of 2003 the 10th grade one became high stakes so they would have taken that in 2001.

One of the reasons often cited on why we needed this high stakes test when everyone was complaining about it was that NY state already had one (the regents) and that they were surpassing us in education because of it. So that tells me at least two states have had these types of high stakes tests for the past 15 years.

Even back in the dark ages, if you did not do well on the standardized tests, you were sent for remedial classes, etc.


Honestly, has anyone really looked at what "on grade level" really means. It's pretty basic and if your child can't test at grade level, it's good to find out early so they can get help.

 

[kamik86]

I'm a bit older so I'm talking about decades ago, and there was no where near the level of stress associated with these tests back then.
I took the Regents, and other than studying like you would for a class final it wasn't crazy like it is today. My kids now in HS have packets that they work on for weeks. We had our notes from our notebook lol. Oh, and when I took the Regents, it wasn't mandatory unless you wanted a Regents diploma. Besides, those tests were for HS, there was not that kind of stress put in 4th graders.

Ok so what are the stakes to this test for 4th graders? I know there are stakes to the school... but I mean to the students. I didn't think there were any besides that they may have to do remedial work to bring them up to grade level... which I would think would be a good thing.

 

[castleview]

I guess your school needs to address the technology issues. Computers have been around in schools for a very long time and they are not going away. Perhaps someone in your school needs to start writing grants to get more computers, etc.

As for test regulations, that is not new.


WHY IS CHANGE SO HARD FOR PEOPLE????? It's just a different test people. Schools have been administering standardized tests for decades and decades. It is NOT NEW...it's just a different test!!!

For me, I don't think it's a change for the better. There is no validity to these tests at all, yet they are being used to punish teachers and schools. I was never big on test scores determining the value of the school in the first place, but now things are completely out of control and suspect. When I was in school, we simply took the test. It was used as a benchmark; not a weapon. Top it off with the fact that most schools were rushed into these tests and teaching styles without much planning, it's quite frustrating. Sure, changes are needed in areas of education. But I want suggestions from the people who actually work in education; not from business people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Kayabee]

Sorry, but we were "stressed" about these tests too. We prepped for a couple weeks for the tests, the schools sent out notes to make sure we got enough sleep and ate well before the tests, etc. The kids are not the ones "stressing" over the tests, the parents are...and some administrations. This was way back in the 70's too....

I love how you always seem to discount other's opinions and feelings based on what they actually have gone through or are going through because you didn't have the same experience. Its not a one size fits all, and you should be so lucky that your kids didn't stress about them, but many are, and certainly the teacher's. But again, you don't think so so it must not be so.

 

[jodifla]

Ok so what are the stakes to this test for 4th graders? I know there are stakes to the school... but I mean to the students. I didn't think there were any besides that they may have to do remedial work to bring them up to grade level... which I would think would be a good thing.

In states like New York, students have had all their electives taken away. So even if they are a talented musician or athlete, now they sit inside a classroom being drilled all day. This just doesn't work for a lot of kids -- and for kids with processing issues, it makes matters much worse.

Other schools are canceling plays and recess, even at the K level, because now it's all about passing the tests.

 

[kamik86]

I love how you always seem to discount other's opinions and feelings based on what they actually have gone through or are going through because you didn't have the same experience. Its not a one size fits all, and you should be so lucky that your kids didn't stress about them, but many are, and certainly the teacher's. But again, you don't think so so it must not be so.

Honestly I think who stresses on the tests are more personality then anything. The kids I know that stressed in elementary school about the tests that didn't matter for anything unless your parents made a big deal about it when they got the results were the same kids that were stressed over not passing the high stakes test in high school. Actually they were the same students that also stressed about finals and that big test in the middle of the year for normal classes.

Some people will stress about all tests. Some will never stress about any test because they know they test well.

 

[Happy Snowman]

I love how you always seem to discount other's opinions and feelings based on what they actually have gone through or are going through because you didn't have the same experience. Its not a one size fits all, and you should be so lucky that your kids didn't stress about them, but many are, and certainly the teacher's. But again, you don't think so so it must not be so.

If you read what I posted, I said that kids were stressing about these for decades....and I'm pretty sure YOU were the one that said everyone was stressing over the tests......

again, the point is these tests are not new, they are just different....

 

[jrmasm]

Honestly I think who stresses on the tests are more personality then anything. The kids I know that stressed in elementary school about the tests that didn't matter for anything unless your parents made a big deal about it when they got the results were the same kids that were stressed over not passing the high stakes test in high school. Actually they were the same students that also stressed about finals and that big test in the middle of the year for normal classes.

Some people will stress about all tests. Some will never stress about any test because they know they test well.

I think that's part of it. Some kids will stress no matter what. That's just who the are. But in my experience taking standardized test is 70s and 80s was vastly different than my what goes in my youngest daughter's school now. The amount of time spent prepping is unreal!! That didn't happen back in the day at the school I attended. I don't even remember getting the 'get a good night's sleep and eat a good breakfast' lecture until SATs.

I think plenty of kids and parents are stressed simply because of the massive amount of attention given to these tests by the schools.

 

[nugov2]

My question though is where does the stress come from? The test or the teachers/administrators/environment of the district. Some kids will have stress no matter how short or easy the test is. I think the reason for all this hoopla is:
1. Some people just overreact and jump on whatever arm chair issue is the "in" thing.
2. Some people live in an area where parents, teachers and administrators put unnecessary stress on the kids through how they act and what they do. Kids are smart they pick up on it. They hear mom all up in arms over a test, well now they are worried.
3. Some states have decided to place too much emphasis on the test by either tying retention or advancement to it and 50% of teacher evaluations to it, which is stupid.

None of those factors are test specific, but state/district/school specific. I have yet to see a single issue that is a nationwide one vs the reaction of people based on some really horrible decisions. Some are the state level by making them high stakes, some are district through teaching to the test and spending way too much time on reviewing for it and others are on the teachers...Mrs. Jones will lose her job if you don't do well kids. If the problems were test specific every school in every district in every state would be having issues and that just isn't the case.

 

[nugov2]

In states like New York, students have had all their electives taken away. So even if they are a talented musician or athlete, now they sit inside a classroom being drilled all day. This just doesn't work for a lot of kids -- and for kids with processing issues, it makes matters much worse.

Other schools are canceling plays and recess, even at the K level, because now it's all about passing the tests.

Again, not a requirement of the test. That is the people in charge of making decisions in New York. I don't know if that is district or a state level issue, but it is stupid and makes no sense and sadly even if PARCC didn't exist that school/district/state would have major issues if they have people in charge that think that is a good idea. It is just so clear to me more and more with each post I read some states/districts are in such a sad, sad state and it isn't just about lack of funding, poverty level and certainly it isn't about a test. I truly am so thankful for where we live. I always appreciated our school district and all the people who put so much time into it, but I am even more thankful than ever after reading what my children could be stuck in. It is sad, but it isn't Pearson's fault.

 

[leebee]

For the record, our school has a computer lab with 25 recently-purchased computers (I think they are about 3 years old). Middle schoolers have ancient MacBooks; they are easily 10 years old and don't seem to run the tests particularly well. Also, I've never been threatened with Dept. of Ed prosecution and loss of certification prior to giving any other standardized tests- and I don't live in Florida. I guess there is a first time for everything (or perhaps as a test administrator but not a classroom teacher, the paperwork has never reached us).

 

[already]

In states like New York, students have had all their electives taken away. So even if they are a talented musician or athlete, now they sit inside a classroom being drilled all day. This just doesn't work for a lot of kids -- and for kids with processing issues, it makes matters much worse.

Other schools are canceling plays and recess, even at the K level, because now it's all about passing the tests.

That sounds like a school problem, not a test problem.

Our kids still had their 2 musics, 2 pe's, 1 hour of art and actually had extra recess as the teachers sent them out before the test to get the butterflies out. We are a tech based district with everybody having laptops, but the district didn't want the kids doing the math part online. So, they made it a priority to get everybody a paper math test.

 

[nugov2]

For the record, our school has a computer lab with 25 recently-purchased computers (I think they are about 3 years old). Middle schoolers have ancient MacBooks; they are easily 10 years old and don't seem to run the tests particularly well. Also, I've never been threatened with Dept. of Ed prosecution and loss of certification prior to giving any other standardized tests- and I don't live in Florida. I guess there is a first time for everything (or perhaps as a test administrator but not a classroom teacher, the paperwork has never reached us).

The thing is, it's not the scary threat you think it is. It is just saying don't cheat and don't copy the test for the most part. It isn't like it says if you look at a student while they are testing you will lose certification. It sounds odd that people would want to contact their union reps though based on the wording of the contract you are signing for PARCC if it was only the test administrators left out of the loop. It just seems like someone was overreacting to send that email. There isn't really anything to contact them about b/c it states based on your own states rules and IMO that is the kind of nonsense that causes people to get all worked up, when the reality is they aren't saying much of anything. Though now they have sent an email to everyone in the district stating the test is in violation of your contract and everyone who doesn't know the real policy from the past, like you who weren't aware this is what happens when you administer a test is all worked up thinking your job is on the line and you have a big threat hanging over your head. That person shouldn't have sent that out. You can easily google what your previous contract would have looked like from your prior testing. What was your old state test?

 

[jodifla]

My question though is where does the stress come from? The test or the teachers/administrators/environment of the district. Some kids will have stress no matter how short or easy the test is. I think the reason for all this hoopla is:
1. Some people just overreact and jump on whatever arm chair issue is the "in" thing.
2. Some people live in an area where parents, teachers and administrators put unnecessary stress on the kids through how they act and what they do. Kids are smart they pick up on it. They hear mom all up in arms over a test, well now they are worried.
3. Some states have decided to place too much emphasis on the test by either tying retention or advancement to it and 50% of teacher evaluations to it, which is stupid.

None of those factors are test specific, but state/district/school specific. I have yet to see a single issue that is a nationwide one vs the reaction of people based on some really horrible decisions. Some are the state level by making them high stakes, some are district through teaching to the test and spending way too much time on reviewing for it and others are on the teachers...Mrs. Jones will lose her job if you don't do well kids. If the problems were test specific every school in every district in every state would be having issues and that just isn't the case.

Here's a nationwide issue: The parents I know who are most upset about it are ones whose children are being given tests well over their level of learning. Now that the DOE is only allowing 1 percent of students to take alternate assessments, you have an unthinkable amount of kids who are being forced into testing that doesn't suit them or benefit them -- and in fact undermines their educational experience. The feds have tied states' hands with this arbitrary percentage; and even IEP teams no longer have the final say on which testing a child should take.

 

[nugov2]

Here's a nationwide issue: The parents I know who are most upset about it are ones whose children are being given tests well over their level of learning. Now that the DOE is only allowing 1 percent of students to take alternate assessments, you have an unthinkable amount of kids who are being forced into testing that doesn't suit them or benefit them -- and in fact undermines their educational experience. The feds have tied states' hands with this arbitrary percentage; and even IEP teams no longer have the final say on which testing a child should take.

How is it a nationwide issue if it is just the parents you know? Either way that is inaccurate. You are once again twisting a statistic to fit your argument. It is just that now they actually offer a lot more ways to accommodate children on an IEP. So only a smaller percentage qualify(1%) for the completely modified test. Anyone with an IEP will have their needs met. The PARCC just offers multiple options besides the completely modified test vs the testing in the past.

Assessment practices are shifting dramatically, and these shifts will have significant impact on special education. In the 2014-2015 school year, nearly all students will be expected to take the general assessment. To accommodate students with disabilities, there will be an incredible array of accessibility options. Historically, only 1-2% of students used testing accommodations, but the new assessments will allow for three levels of accommodation support and many supports will be embedded in the assessments.

 

[jodifla]

How is it a nationwide issue if it is just the parents you know? Either way that is inaccurate. You are once again twisting a statistic to fit your argument. It is just that now they actually offer a lot more ways to accommodate children on an IEP. So only a smaller percentage qualify(1%) for the completely modified test. Anyone with an IEP will have their needs met. The PARCC just offers multiple options besides the completely modified test vs the testing in the past.

Assessment practices are shifting dramatically, and these shifts will have significant impact on special education. In the 2014-2015 school year, nearly all students will be expected to take the general assessment. To accommodate students with disabilities, there will be an incredible array of accessibility options. Historically, only 1-2% of students used testing accommodations, but the new assessments will allow for three levels of accommodation support and many supports will be embedded in the assessments.

Those are very blanket statements you are making, and they are very incorrect. In fact, I've already posted comments from another special ed teacher pointing out this very fact. The "accommodations" are pretty meaningless for many children.

 

[jodifla]

Also, I'm on message boards with parents all across the country, which is how I know it's a nationwide issue.

 

[nugov2]

Those are very blanket statements you are making, and they are very incorrect. In fact, I've already posted comments from another special ed teacher pointing out this very fact. The "accommodations" are pretty meaningless for many children.

Hello Pot

Again that is not the experience of everyone. What need isn't be met? Give me an exact need that is being ignored. The accommodations are not meaningless for many children. That is a bunch of bull. They have extended time, they provide audio, text to speech, video, human signer, paper test for those who cannot use the computer, a human reader for those not taking the computer version, scribes for students, assistive technology, writing accommodations such as word prediction, bilingual accommodations, unique need accommodation for those where nothing else listed will help and even an emergency accommodation for those where something comes up. And then there is you 1% who will not benefit from any of those accommodations and will qualify for an alternate test. I'd say they offer quite an array of accommodations, and I'm not even 100% sure I listed all of them. I taught many students on IEP's and it seems to me this fits the needs that would come up quite well. Anyone it doesn't would apply for the alternate assessment. I again, don't buy into the hysteria of kids being denied accommodations that they need and most do not need an alternate assessment, the goal is for them to do the same education with accommodations necessary to make the possible.

 

[undertheradar]

Also, I'm on message boards with parents all across the country, which is how I know it's a nationwide issue.

Surely you can accept that if you are reading parents complaints they appear to share the same view you have. This is so much effort in an attempt to derail change. How much more panic can you possibly attempt to cause when you have zero results to produce to back your claims? Give the tests a few years, then circle the wagons if needed, just reacting without giving the tests a chance is simply wrong.

 

[jodifla]

Hello Pot

Again that is not the experience of everyone. What need isn't be met? Give me an exact need that is being ignored. The accommodations are not meaningless for many children. That is a bunch of bull. They have extended time, they provide audio, text to speech, video, human signer, paper test for those who cannot use the computer, a human reader for those not taking the computer version, scribes for students, assistive technology, writing accommodations such as word prediction, bilingual accommodations, unique need accommodation for those where nothing else listed will help and even an emergency accommodation for those where something comes up. And then there is you 1% who will not benefit from any of those accommodations and will qualify for an alternate test. I'd say they offer quite an array of accommodations, and I'm not even 100% sure I listed all of them. I taught many students on IEP's and it seems to me this fits the needs that would come up quite well. Anyone it doesn't would apply for the alternate assessment. I again, don't buy into the hysteria of kids being denied accommodations that they need and most do not need an alternate assessment, the goal is for them to do the same education with accommodations necessary to make the possible.

Most of the accommodations are geared for those with physical disabilities, not learning disabilities.

Children reading 3 levels below grade level won't be helped by any of those accommodations. And there are well more than 1 percent of children who struggle with reading. Children who are not at grade level in math will be tested on grade level math -- even if they never were taught algebra, for example. Again, the PARCC accommodations are meaningless for that.