Who has only purchased direct and why?

[dmunsil]

BLT was on the resale market within about 18 months if I remember correctly.

The first BLT resale was about 6 months after the first sale. I don't think we'll see that for VGF, but who knows?

 

[BestDadEver]

One thing I've learned over time is that whenever someone says it's not about the money, it's about one thing...the money.

Lol do you work for ESPN

I have to disagree with above statements about comparing value to what you would have paid . To me when you staying in a room that is x amount but comparing to what you would be in IMO is the hypothetical .

Even if you wouldn't pay $32k for airline tickets (I don't blame you) you still received $32k worth of goods and services . I understand you point you not just going to bank the money . In turn not actually saving it , but there is $32k of value to be had .

 

[ELMC]

Lol do you work for ESPN

I have to disagree with above statements about comparing value to what you would have paid . To me when you staying in a room that is x amount but comparing to what you would be in IMO is the hypothetical .

Even if you wouldn't pay $32k for airline tickets (I don't blame you) you still received $32k worth of goods and services . I understand you point you not just going to bank the money . In turn not actually saving it , but there is $32k of value to be had .

This is the crux of the "rack rate" argument and it's where I disagree. Airlines are notorious for manipulating prices in this fashion, either to take advantage of corporations who will pay anything or to control bookings through different channels. This very same seat priced at $16,000 might be offered for $4,000 for no apparent rhyme or reason at some future date in time. The point is, that the seat isn't $16,000 and booking it using points does not mean the person got $16,000 worth of value. The number itself is arbitrary and to attach a real dollar value to it is a bit foolish.

And no, I don't work for ESPN, but I'm pretty sure that I've been saying that quote longer than Jim Rome

 

[nd43]

Are you familiar with the men's clothing store Jos A. Bank? They are the kings of your logic, just in a different marketplace. They average suit at Jos A. Bank is $895. However, despite the price tag, it's not an $895 suit. The reason for this is because more than half of the year they run sales. Sometimes it's buy one, get one free. Sometimes it's buy one, get two free. Sometimes it's even better than that. My point is, THAT is what determines the market price for those suits, not the fact that they are tagged $895. Do people pay full price for one of those suits? I'm sure they do. But I bet they also feel duped once they turn on their television and see that they could have gotten an extra suit, two shirts and two ties for the same price.

My point is this...just because Jos A. Bank says that their suit is worth $895 does not make it so. Just because Disney tells you that their room is worth $12,000 does not make it so. There are just too many sales (room discounts, AP discounts, PIN codes, bounceback offers, DVC ownership, DVC rental, booking similar onsite non DVC rooms) for this to be a valid number, regardless of whether or not you have paid it in the past...which I don't recall your saying that you have.

Yes, I was a frequent deluxe cash buyer at Disney before joining DVC. If you think the GF is going to constantly be running "rent one villa, get three free" deals during Christmas, you just must have never booked a premium cash room, during a premium season, in a long, long time.

I think you guys have lost perspective on how much money exists in the world and how few lake view villas actually exist at the flagship resort in the worlds largest tourist destination. Disney is not going to have secret codes, blow out specials, etc. to rent premium villas at Christmas at the VGF. Frankly, most people will be shut out trying to pay these prices to get the few rooms available.

BTW, the grand villas will cost over $35k for that same 6 days and will be sold out as well.

GF at Christmas is not, and will never be, Jos A Bank. The fact that you think this is some sort of "fantasy rate" no one really pays except a spare few is just way off. It is the true market rate for these rooms. There is no "secret" discount everyone is getting to pay less.

There are many, many people in the world happy to pay it.

 

[iluvthsgam]

I think, in the end, it is the difference between how much money you "saved" by not spending what you otherwise would, and how much "value" you got by spending the amount you did and what quality of vacation you got in return.

I think most timeshares represent "value" by providing nicer accommodations at a lower cost. I am not sure many offer "savings" by simply allowing you to spend less money then you otherwise would on vacation. It is about maximizing the value of your vacations dollars vs. saving hard vacation dollars.

Calculating that value of dollars by comparing my cost to market cost and calling it "savings" I think spun this in different directions for different people. To me, it was always about getting the best value for my vacation dollars, not spending less vacation dollars.

BINGO!

You were conflating "value" and "savings" - the room you booked on points that cost $12,000 did not "save" you $8,400 because you were not going to spend the $12,000 in the first place. But you did get a room "valued" at $12,000 for only $3,600, so in essence you got a good "value" for your dollars. But you are kidding yourself if you think you "saved" $8,400.

You guys are pretty funny. So, in your world, the market never determines the "value" of an item, only you do. So, given this, the only time you could ever "save" money is when you personally decide you would spend more, but do not.

The market determines the "cost" of something. Value is the relative worth of getting something in exchange for something else and that can change for each person. And no, the time you "save" money is when you are currently spending X and because of some other decision you make, you now spend X-Y. An apartment in my building just came on the market for $3.2 M. Did I "save" $3.2 M by not purchasing it? No, of course not. I'm not saying I only save money when I arbitrarily decide to spend more or less on something.

You certainly can if you want to, nobody is stopping you - but you shouldn't compare the cost of DVC to some high rack rate cost unless you would have paid it yourself. Don't know how else to say this. Agree with me or not, it doesn't really matter. But it is certainly more realistic to compare "savings" to what you previously were spending on the same accomodations.

 

[ELMC]

Yes, I was a frequent deluxe cash buyer at Disney before joining DVC. If you think the GF is going to constantly be running "rent one villa, get three free" deals during Christmas, you just must have never booked a premium cash room, during a premium season, in a long, long time.

I think you guys have lost perspective on how much money exists in the world and how few lake view villas actually exist at the flagship resort in the worlds largest tourist destination. Disney is not going to have secret codes, blow out specials, etc. to rent premium villas at Christmas at the VGF. Frankly, most people will be shut out trying to pay these prices to get the few rooms available.

BTW, the grand villas will cost over $35k for that same 6 days and will be sold out as well.

GF at Christmas is not, and will never be, Jos A Bank. The fact that you think this is some sort of "fantasy rate" no one really pays except a spare few is just way off. It is the true market rate for these rooms. There is no "secret" discount everyone is getting to pay less.

There are many, many people in the world happy to pay it.

Of course I don't think that Disney is going to run such a deal. I really hope that you are just being flip and that's not what you actually took from my comparison to pricing models. Please tell me you were being flip. But I don't think it's a fantasy rate either. I do think that it is a rate that those who are either frivolous with their money or not cost conscious at all will pay. But that doesn't mean that I'm not so sure how reasonable it is to use as a comparison.

In general I agree with a lot of what you said. Except you're wrong about one thing...there is a secret discount for these rooms. Buy DVC. That now sets the standard for what price should be used as a basis of comparison.

I totally understand what you're saying about supply and demand, flagship resort, Christmastime at Disney, etc. Really, I do. But I also think you are forgetting one other class of people in this situation, those that have the money to book these rooms but refuse to spend it. Whether or not I can afford to pay $12,000 for six nights in a 2BR villa at GF during Christmas is completely irrelevant. I would not do so.

 

[Dean]

Well there has been a thread about who here bought direct and who bought resale , and to my surprise the overwhelming amount bought direct . Most here that preach resale own direct points too .

I bought right around the time they put restrictions in resale membership to be honest that was the point I said forget that up till that point I was looking at resale . I find value in the other options avalable even if its "not a good use of points " . I also believe there is quite a bit of savings in buying DVC . I also bought cause I wasn't interested in the ROFR process and I wanted to finance .

You don't see a lot of pro direct cause it is quite difficult to defend that around here . Look at any of my post , usually start a derailment of original topics . Most people probably just rather not deal with it . I assume this thread will be the same .

When MOST bought direct the price difference was only 20% or so AND one did not lose any options. To get a feel for the current expectations one would need to limit to buyers within the last 3 years or so, basically the change over date. Whether they actually bought retail still doesn't give you info, you've go to further drill down to those that truly knew enough about both options to compare. Most who buy any timeshare buy retail without knowing the options well enough to make informed decisions. The number or % that bought retail is meaningless because most are not knowledgeable enough to make an informed decision. the reverse is true also, I've seen ebay contracts go for more than retail pricing for DVC. The reason you don't see a lot of pro direct purchase is that it's difficult to impossible to actually intellectually defend that option for most situations currently at all. Exceptions include smaller contracts, specialty purchases, VGF, VGC, higher discounts (? CM) and possibly Aulani in some cases.

 

[BestDadEver]

This is the crux of the "rack rate" argument and it's where I disagree. Airlines are notorious for manipulating prices in this fashion, either to take advantage of corporations who will pay anything or to control bookings through different channels. This very same seat priced at $16,000 might be offered for $4,000 for no apparent rhyme or reason at some future date in time. The point is, that the seat isn't $16,000 and booking it using points does not mean the person got $16,000 worth of value. The number itself is arbitrary and to attach a real dollar value to it is a bit foolish.

And no, I don't work for ESPN, but I'm pretty sure that I've been saying that quote longer than Jim Rome

Listen I understand you stance on it, I get it, it makes sense to me .if you want to look at it that way . It's just not wrong to look at it the way do too.

 

[BestDadEver]

When MOST bought direct the price difference was only 20% or so AND one did not lose any options. To get a feel for the current expectations one would need to limit to buyers within the last 3 years or so, basically the change over date. Whether they actually bought retail still doesn't give you info, you've go to further drill down to those that truly knew enough about both options to compare. Most who buy any timeshare buy retail without knowing the options well enough to make informed decisions. The number or % that bought retail is meaningless because most are not knowledgeable enough to make an informed decision. the reverse is true also, I've seen ebay contracts go for more than retail pricing for DVC. The reason you don't see a lot of pro direct purchase is that it's difficult to impossible to actually intellectually defend that option for most situations currently at all. Exceptions include smaller contracts, specialty purchases, VGF, VGC, higher discounts (? CM) and possibly Aulani in some cases.

You do realize its like the same 5-7 people that promote resale pretty hard here . I don't think it's the norm . I also don't believe everyone buying direct got duped .

 

[Dacky619]

I know some people have strong feelings on the direct vs resale, I just think you need to do what works for you. We looked into resale, but when we bought we went direct and it was flat out the best decision for us for very simple reasons. We wanted to buy into BLT, and resale there was only a little less than buying direct. Yes, I could have saved some money if I had bought resale, but buying direct they were able to pull a room for us that was not available for a trip that came up 6 weeks later. So If I had bought resale, I wouldn't have been able to cancel my cash reservation basically wiping out any savings from resale.

Same thing now. If I wanted to buy VGF in the next year or two (if it doesn't sell out that quick) I'll look and see if resale would be a significant savings or not (I know, it's very doubtful). If I wanted to buy into AKL I wouldn't even talk to Disney directly. I think every situation has different reasons direct or resale would work better.

 

[Dean]

You do realize its like the same 5-7 people that promote resale pretty hard here . I don't think it's the norm .

No, the norm is lack of sell control, live beyond your means, finance things you can't afford. Normal sucks. All we're really talking is common sense but it isn't that common nowadays now is it.

I also don't believe everyone buying direct got duped .

IMO , everyone no, but for current buyers, the term MOST would apply for the options available for half the price. At least with DVC there is residual value, with some timeshares you might be spending tens of thousands on something you could get from free on ebay.

I know some people have strong feelings on the direct vs resale, I just think you need to do what works for you. We looked into resale, but when we bought we went direct and it was flat out the best decision for us for very simple reasons. We wanted to buy into BLT, and resale there was only a little less than buying direct. Yes, I could have saved maybe $1000 if I had bought resale, but buying direct they were able to pull a room for us that was not available for a trip that came up 6 weeks later. So If I had bought resale, I wouldn't have been able to cancel my cash reservation basically wiping out any savings from resale.

Same thing now. If I wanted to buy VGF in the next year or two (if it doesn't sell out that quick) I'll look and see if resale would be a significant savings or not (I know, it's very doubtful). If I wanted to buy into AKL I wouldn't even talk to Disney directly. I think every situation has different reasons direct or resale would work better.

Exactly. Same for GF currently and likely going forward as is true for VGC for those that buying there makes sense otherwise.

 

[ELMC]

You do realize its like the same 5-7 people that promote resale pretty hard here . I don't think it's the norm . I also don't believe everyone buying direct got duped .

I think that anyone who bought AKV for $125+ a point not realizing that their points are only worth $60-70 a piece on the open market did in fact get duped. The reason those 5-7 people promote resale on here is to make people aware of this fact before they purchase, not after. I think the problem is that every comment you read regarding direct purchases, financing, etc. you believe is aimed directly at you. While it may apply to your situation, nobody is really addressing your situation or your choices. Where you get into it is by presenting less than the full story or by making statements that are either incorrect or misleading. People then correct you and it becomes a big mess. I would hope that you do not take offense to the comments here just as I do not take offense to your labeling me as a "resale promoter".

 

[wdwlover25]

Purchased initial contract direct at AKV in 2007... at that time incentives were huge. No regrets whatsoever. Based on my very rough calculations I've already hit break even on the point cost (not including MFs). Just did a direct add on at VGF... Like PPs have stated there is no resale market for new resorts and don't want to wait for one. (IMO resale on VGF will be at starting direct prices). I'm also planning a second direct add on at Poly when available in a couple years.

 

[Deb & Bill]

As to the cost of the villa and the amount you are saving by buying in:

How many people here when they need to add an additional night or are arriving early, pay rack rate for the same villa they are booking on points? Very few, most book a night at the airport, book a value or moderate resort, book offsite book DTD hotels. But if they are missing a night in the middle of their stay, they might go ahead and book the same villa on cash, provided they don't have to move and hoping they get some sort of discount (AP or DVC or AAA).

I know myself, I could have gotten a VWL two bedroom villa for my first night last January when we decided to arrive one night early. Instead I booked a night a POR at a discounted AP rate for $137 for the three of us.

So I know in my case, I am only saving the amount I would have really paid.

We stayed at the GF on cash several years ago for a week. We stayed in Sugarloaf and really enjoyed it. But the only reason we stayed there was we got three nights free when we booked four and purchased tickets with our stay directly from Disney. We'd never pay cash for seven night in Sugarloaf.

The only time we actually stayed for cash for more than a week, was our very first stay (the trip we bought into DVC in 1997) and we had a Magic Kingdom Club card so all our nights were discounted.

 

[nd43]

Of course I don't think that Disney is going to run such a deal. I really hope that you are just being flip and that's not what you actually took from my comparison to pricing models. Please tell me you were being flip. But I don't think it's a fantasy rate either. I do think that it is a rate that those who are either frivolous with their money or not cost conscious at all will pay. But that doesn't mean that I'm not so sure how reasonable it is to use as a comparison.

In general I agree with a lot of what you said. Except you're wrong about one thing...there is a secret discount for these rooms. Buy DVC. That now sets the standard for what price should be used as a basis of comparison.

I totally understand what you're saying about supply and demand, flagship resort, Christmastime at Disney, etc. Really, I do. But I also think you are forgetting one other class of people in this situation, those that have the money to book these rooms but refuse to spend it. Whether or not I can afford to pay $12,000 for six nights in a 2BR villa at GF during Christmas is completely irrelevant. I would not do so.

If I was flip, it certainly was not my goal! I thought I was making solid arguments about the true market rate for VGF at Christmas

 

[ELMC]

If I was flip, it certainly was not my goal! I thought I was making solid arguments about the true market rate for VGF at Christmas

Do you really believe that I actually thought that Disney would run a buy one, get three free special on rooms when I made that analogy? That's what I was referring to.

 

[JustTinking]

Purchased initial contract direct at AKV in 2007... at that time incentives were huge. No regrets whatsoever. Based on my very rough calculations I've already hit break even on the point cost (not including MFs). Just did a direct add on at VGF... Like PPs have stated there is no resale market for new resorts and don't want to wait for one. (IMO resale on VGF will be at starting direct prices). I'm also planning a second direct add on at Poly when available in a couple years.

We purchased direct twice. First in 2002, when VWL was selling out, and I believed Disney that there would never be another chance to buy at this resort (oh silly me!), and then like above, at AKV in 2007. Price per point was still reasonable, and although I didn't know about the resale market, not sure there would have been terrific value in going there at the time.

We've never regretted our purchases, but that said, I am looking resale for our next purchase. Given current price per point, and the economy, I couldn't justify paying 50% more, especially for perks we seldom use.

 

[Minniesgal]

I think when is probably a more relevant question than why. Direct purchases were more attractive in the past.

 

[luv2sleep]

Glad this thread is mostly back on track! Thanks for posting about which properties they bought and why you chose to purchase points at those specific properties. Great info! Thanks!

 

[bakerworld]

We're direct buyers - we bought our 2 larger contracts (and neither is very large) when the incentives were fantastic and the point buy-in much lower than today. We just added on at $115/pt with $500 total discount.

I was one of those who didn't know about re-sale and my comfort level still is low for re-sale. I realize that not many people get taken but sending a large amount of cash and not getting any points for month or more just doesn't cut it for me. I don't like the uncertainty, the bartering or the need to constantly pled for my product from the broker and then from DVC. I just want to walk up and buy. For that ease of purchase I am willing to pay more altho I will try for any incentives available to reduce the price.

We wanted a small contract at BCV (55pts) and small contracts are 1: hard to find and 2: command a highter re-sale price. So we went direct, have our UY, the exact number of pts we were looking and an immediate availabllity. We put down 20% and financed the rest and we well pay it off early - just like our others - so we didn't have to deplete our savings even briefly. To us it is worth the 'extra' cost.