Who Failed Him?

[Agri]

Its not all his fault, but mostly. While it would be nice to grow up in a loving, supportive environment, not everyone gets it. Not everyone has a crappy childhood and decides to be selfish and steal from other people to deal with it. As much as people didn't help him - when did he ask for help?

Honestly, this reminds me of someone I knew. He was always full of excuses as to how other people failed him and that was why he didn't even have his GED. All he had to do was go take the math portion as that was the only one he had failed. I offered to work with him on the math but after a week it was "too hard". Then we got into an argument about it and he said he didn't need help in the first place, he could go take it and pass it anytime. "Anytime" didn't happen while we were dating and I'm sure it hasn't happened since. His teeth were rotting out of his head because his parents never took him to the dentist. (In actuality, his parents had taken him to the dentist but he behaved so horribly they didn't go back after he was 14.) And yes, the list goes on. He'll be 30 in two months with three kids that his sister is raising and somehow its all his parents' fault.

He could have gotten his GED while he was in prison. He could have seen a guidance counselor at school.

At the end of the day, while it would be nice to have an awesome support system, if you don't get it you can take the easy way out or the hard way out. He chose the easy way.

 

[smb6]

A little bit of everyone failed him. Sure some people grow up in even worse conditions and manage to better themselves in spite of it. But the majority of people in prison grew up in this type of environment or worse, so I do feel this type of upbringing contributed to this man being where he is. There are always exceptions. I feel bad for him on some levels; but that does not excuse his behavior and he has to suffer the consequences of his choices like everyone else even though it is a sad situation.... Most people in prison have a "sob story"- their story is real, their story is sad, their story helps you to understand how they got there, but they still have to suffer the consequences....

 

[LuvOrlando]

As a kid who raised myself I have to say everyone failed him, but mostly himself. When you grow up a kid like that EVERY SINGLE STEP matters, I didn't have the luxury of using drugs because there would have been no-one there to give me an intervention, I didn't have the luxury of getting in trouble in general because there was never going to be any superhero to save me. It was all me.

SHOULD this persons family have done better, absolutely. DO they owe him, yes, will harping on it change anything, no. He didn't get that, lots of people don't, I didn't so to me its really no excuse, not to me anyway. When he got out of jail he had a chance to build another life and he didn't. Its not easy to do it and he failed. Life isn't easy for everyone and thats all there is to it, it doesn't mean you get to shrug it off because it's hard. Now he finds himself even further behind and there is nothing easy about it but if he wants a different life HE has got to be the one to walk himself there...no-one else can do it for you. If he has time on his hands he should be looking for something productive to do with it. If this guy wants a different life HE needs to change himself to fit into it because the world won't bend. If everyone has jobs and he wants to join in then he needs to get himself some training he can feel good about so he can get a job too, the recipe for fitting in isn't a mystery.

The best anyone can do for someone like this is validate that things could have been better and encourage them to make the changes that are necessary to move in another direction.

 

[ols386]

His parents failed him in the beginning. It would have been nice if he could have gone and lived with his grandparents (since they were giving him money anyway). But I don't know their situation, so maybe that wasn't possible.

It also would have been nice if, while he was in prison all those years, he could have gotten an education while he was there. That would have helped immensly when he was released in trying to get a job (realizing that it is more difficult to get employment when you have a criminal record).

Sure there are people in the same type situation as he is in, that do change their ways and get their life turned around, but usually those individuals have a support system. It's next to impossible to do that if you do not have a support system at all. By support system, I mean family and/or friends, or an employer who is willing to take a chance and give you a job.

 

[luvsJack]

This is a young man I knew when he was young, but wasn't in contact much later.

When he was in 6th grade he moved into the school my sons went to. He was on the small size, very hyper and just had a need to fit in. He played football and wanted desperatly to be best friends with my older son, so he became part of their little group. His mom helped a lot at school and we were friends, but she did almost everything she did to be around any single/divorced men she could find (I am not totally sure that single/divorced was a requirement) so I got tired of that quickly.

His mom told tales of who his father was that I don't know if they are true or not--she said he was in the mafia in NOLA and she said these things in front of this kid. And made a big deal out how tough the man was and how nobody could ever do her or her son wrong because this guy would "get them".

In the last part of 6th grade, 2 boys got caught at school with a gun. He wasn't caught but was sort of the reason that they got caught. He wanted the gun. He wanted to be the one carrying it on the bus. Not to shoot anyone but to just "look cool/tough". The principal overheard the boys and found out about the gun. He was always on the outskirts of the really trouble kids--not ever really doing anything or getting caught but always "sort of" involved.

DS quit having anything at all to do with the boy when he became obsessed with gangs. He thought he wanted to join a gang. Again, he thought they were something to strive for because everyone was afraid of them.--What makes someone want other people to be afraid of them?

Anyway--ds was busy with sports and high school and NOT getting in trouble (thank the Lord!) and they didn't have much to do with each other. And then we were told about all the other trouble and the armed robberies and such.

Now that he is out, he wants to be friends with ds again. Ds is talking to him but not really trusting him, you know? I don't think they will ever really be friends again. Too much has happened. And ds really values his "good name" and he doesn't want to necessarily be associated with someone that may go and rob another store. He does feel sorry for him and he does want to help him.

I want to help him, but I am a little leary of having him around a lot. I hate to feel that way, but I really don't completely trust him. I would like to help guide him in the right direction.

He did say that the dr. he saw to diagnosis the bi-polar said that he was very easily led because he was always wanting to fit in and impress those around him. According to this guy, there were a bunch of folks sitting around talking about robbing this store and how easy it would be. So this kid just decides he will be the one to do and does. I don't know if any of the others were with him or not.

But it seems like the dr. is blaming the disorders he has for what he has done, and I just don't know if I can agree with that.

I do think he knew that it was wrong to rob that store, but I wonder if his mom's obsession with saying his dad was in the mafia and a "tough guy" and his need for others to be afraid of him (did that come from his mom?) made him do it anyway?

I do think that the second time he failed himself but I just wonder if it could have been stopped somewhere along the way.


We have a GED program here that is free. I think I will talk to him about getting in to that--he could ride the city bus to get here. And go from there. If he does that, then he may could go on and go through the welding program (its only a year) and that would give him some training.

 

[ols386]

Hm... I know a guy who was caught participating in a robbery when he was a young man. While awaiting sentencing, he was diagnosed as bipolar and the judge gave him a second chance, releasing him so long as he saw a doctor regularly and took his meds.

He met a woman and fell in love. She basically took over his life, keeping everything in order for him. It's not been the easiest life for them, but they're still together 30 years later and still in love. He's a success story. And it's due to three factors - early diagnosis, a judge who was willing to give him a second chance, and a woman who loves him. Being on disability and having his psychiatrist and meds covered helps, too.

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like the man in the OP had any of these things. However, his life is far from over yet. He sounds like he needs a mentor, a psychologist and a decent social worker. The system should be able to provide at least one of these.

I wouldn't waste time wondering who "failed" him. Just move ahead and try to find him the help he needs now.

I agree.

 

[shirleyb]

I think it is so easy to generalize about someone's life. How do you sum up a parental or grandparent interaction in one sentence. Is this the 17yr old now 29 year old's summary or an impartial observer?

Has he contacted any community action agencies or community services in his area to inquire about job skills? If not he should do that.

The last thing this person needs is to determine who failed him. What he, and those around him need to do, is focus on how to move beyond where he is today. There are agencies and case workers who can assist him if he would like to move in that direction. It isn't easy - but it would be possible.

Great post, and my thoughts also. Just because the mom was "husband hunting", what does that really mean? Did she date once a week or was she at the bars every night until 2 am? The grandparents throwing money at him - what does that really mean? Does that mean they bought him clothes, a car, paid for camps -- things that a lot of us provide for our kids. That doesn't make them bad either.

With the few sentences, I don't think there's enough info to determine who is at fault, but you can't deny that he doesn't bear responsibility.

 

[LisaR]

So many people have a story to tell and so many take different paths.

My mom had a crappy childhood. As an only child, she raised herself. Her parents divorced. Both were alcoholics. Her mom remarried an alcoholic. My mom spent most nights wandering the back alleys of Detroit looking for the spot where her mother passed out while she was stumbling home from the bars. Many nights, she happened upon her mother doing some things that no child should have to see. Her mom sucked and her step dad was abusive.

Did my mom commit armed robbery? Grow up to be an alcoholic? Abuse others, lie, cheat? No to all of the above.

17 year old young men know that armed robbery is a crime. I don't care how horrible his family life was.

I do think we need to have programs available where kids can go hang out and feel safe. It is too easy to hook up with the wrong crowd. I also think it would be nice if someone would take this now 29 y/o under their wing and train him how to cook for himself, do yard work so he can make a few bucks, clean himself up and lead whatever kind of productive life he will be capable of. OP, show him the way and then it is up to him to follow the path.

 

[Magpie]

As a kid who raised myself I have to say everyone failed him, but mostly himself. When you grow up a kid like that EVERY SINGLE STEP matters, I didn't have the luxury of using drugs because there would have been no-one there to give me an intervention, I didn't have the luxury of getting in trouble in general because there was never going to be any superhero to save me. It was all me.

SHOULD this persons family have done better, absolutely. DO they owe him, yes, will harping on it change anything, no. He didn't get that, lots of people don't, I didn't so to me its really no excuse, not to me anyway. When he got out of jail he had a chance to build another life and he didn't. Its not easy to do it and he failed. Life isn't easy for everyone and thats all there is to it, it doesn't mean you get to shrug it off because it's hard. Now he finds himself even further behind and there is nothing easy about it but if he wants a different life HE has got to be the one to walk himself there...no-one else can do it for you. If he has time on his hands he should be looking for something productive to do with it. If this guy wants a different life HE needs to change himself to fit into it because the world won't bend. If everyone has jobs and he wants to join in then he needs to get himself some training he can feel good about so he can get a job too, the recipe for fitting in isn't a mystery.

Good mental health goes a long way to making this a realistic option. When your brain chemistry is whacked, it can be downright impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

How can you go to work, when your brain is being flooded by brilliant, exciting, intoxicating ideas all of which sound AWESOME, and you've just got to ACT on it, right NOW! Consequences? Bah, consequences are for mere mortals. Your idea is so gorgeous, so perfect, so absolutely fabulous, there's no possible way anything can go wrong!

And then next week your bank account is empty, you've been fired, everyone's mad at you, and you've crawled under your bed, too depressed to find enough energy to even kill yourself.

Bipolar disorder isn't something you just decide to "get over". Meds might work for awhile, but then they wear off. You've got to try new ones. The dosage is wrong. There are side effects. Your health has been permanently damaged. You need people in your life looking out for you, to help you when you can't help yourself.

LuvOrlando, you were very fortunate to have been born with the genetic resources to raise yourself and make good choices. So was I. But I know that not everyone's so lucky.

 

[cabanafrau]

His parents probably started with it but, overall, I believe the mental health *system* in this country (or lack of one) is mainly the cause for failure.

If we are to believe what we know about bi-polar disorder, an untreated bi-polar cannot make good decisions. So, being untreated at 17 and 20 and probably on a manic high, probably explains his armed robbery "decision."

So, up until that time, I blame the parents and health care personnel for not treating this child properly before he got to that point.

Now that he has been incarcerated and obviously not rehabilitated well enough, I blame them for not doing what they are supposed to do with criminals who are in for the short-term: rehab them and make them productive.

That's over now and the young man is being treated and taking his meds. It's time for him to own it.

The mental health aspect definitely adds a few wrinkles to this situation. I'm definitely a proponent of "suck it up buttercup" 99% of the time. In this case, I have to wonder what effect the lack of parenting & guidance growing up, along with mental health issues have had on this individual's maturity level. This could very well be a person who functions with the maturity level of a middle schooler, trying to navigate as an adult with many strikes against them.

 

[ols386]

This is a young man I knew when he was young, but wasn't in contact much later.

When he was in 6th grade he moved into the school my sons went to. He was on the small size, very hyper and just had a need to fit in. He played football and wanted desperatly to be best friends with my older son, so he became part of their little group. His mom helped a lot at school and we were friends, but she did almost everything she did to be around any single/divorced men she could find (I am not totally sure that single/divorced was a requirement) so I got tired of that quickly.

His mom told tales of who his father was that I don't know if they are true or not--she said he was in the mafia in NOLA and she said these things in front of this kid. And made a big deal out how tough the man was and how nobody could ever do her or her son wrong because this guy would "get them".

In the last part of 6th grade, 2 boys got caught at school with a gun. He wasn't caught but was sort of the reason that they got caught. He wanted the gun. He wanted to be the one carrying it on the bus. Not to shoot anyone but to just "look cool/tough". The principal overheard the boys and found out about the gun. He was always on the outskirts of the really trouble kids--not ever really doing anything or getting caught but always "sort of" involved.

DS quit having anything at all to do with the boy when he became obsessed with gangs. He thought he wanted to join a gang. Again, he thought they were something to strive for because everyone was afraid of them.--What makes someone want other people to be afraid of them?

Anyway--ds was busy with sports and high school and NOT getting in trouble (thank the Lord!) and they didn't have much to do with each other. And then we were told about all the other trouble and the armed robberies and such.

Now that he is out, he wants to be friends with ds again. Ds is talking to him but not really trusting him, you know? I don't think they will ever really be friends again. Too much has happened. And ds really values his "good name" and he doesn't want to necessarily be associated with someone that may go and rob another store. He does feel sorry for him and he does want to help him.

I want to help him, but I am a little leary of having him around a lot. I hate to feel that way, but I really don't completely trust him. I would like to help guide him in the right direction.

He did say that the dr. he saw to diagnosis the bi-polar said that he was very easily led because he was always wanting to fit in and impress those around him. According to this guy, there were a bunch of folks sitting around talking about robbing this store and how easy it would be. So this kid just decides he will be the one to do and does. I don't know if any of the others were with him or not.

But it seems like the dr. is blaming the disorders he has for what he has done, and I just don't know if I can agree with that.

I do think he knew that it was wrong to rob that store, but I wonder if his mom's obsession with saying his dad was in the mafia and a "tough guy" and his need for others to be afraid of him (did that come from his mom?) made him do it anyway?

I do think that the second time he failed himself but I just wonder if it could have been stopped somewhere along the way.


We have a GED program here that is free. I think I will talk to him about getting in to that--he could ride the city bus to get here. And go from there. If he does that, then he may could go on and go through the welding program (its only a year) and that would give him some training.

That would be a great start. So nice of you to want to talk to him about it and hopefully get him back on the right path. I think someone in his situation really and truly does need to know that there are others who care and are willing to lend a hand. Your thought about him going through the welding proram is a very good idea.

 

[luvsJack]

Just wanted to add: I don't think he really thinks about it being anyone else's fault that he did what he did. He seems to take responsiblity for it. He's just sort of lost as to what to do now.

I guess my question comes from my wondering, how could this have been prevented? And what could have been done for him to make things easier now?

I mean isn't part of our job as parents, teachers, etc to teach children right from wrong? Or is that something a child will learn on their own? If no one teaches them, then what?

I don't think it helps that his meds seem to have a profound effect on his personality. Of course time in jail did that too, I am sure. But he isn't anything like the person we all knew and that makes it really hard for everyone not to think "something is wrong with him".

 

[FireDancer]

I think when he was a child it was his parents fault, when he became an adult he is responsible for his own actions

This. It was an unfortunate upbringing but you have to take responsibility for yourself. Some people succeed because of their childhood and upbringing and some in spite of it. If you have crappy parents, and one of mine was, it is up to you to rise above it and succeed in life anyway IMO. I have never and would never use the problems from my childhood as an excuse for anything in life.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Mentioning he is bipolar does change things because he lacks impulse control. Pair that with his Mom's glorification of the ideal man being a criminal and things do fall into place.

ai didn't realize this was a childhood frind of your son's, that changes things for me too. The fact this person is seeking your son out tells me that maybe he can be ok if he feels there is a payoff in it. I didn't have any supports but I watched my friend's families very closely for clues on how to behave and they had an enormous influence on me. You might be surprised at how important your approval may be to this guy, and how easily your influence can turn him around, and also how influential you son can be too. My BFF at the time's family was a total mess too, but a lesser mess then mine if that makes sense, and her parents had a huge influence on how I view parenting and love. My high school boyfriend's family taught me stuff too, about saying I love you... I never heard it before and liked it so I did it. I call myself a quilt all the time, made up of bits a pieces I took from the people around me even if they didn't know it.

In the case you describe I would not walk away because my conscience wouldn't let me. Maybe you are supposed to be a mother to more than one son in this life

 

[joviroxx]

I wish that as much time as people, here and everywhere, discuss what should be done for people like this young man who have had a tough life, we could dedicate just as much time teaching people what the responsibility of being a parent really means. Sometimes I wish young people with these issues could take the opportunity to speak out about the importance of raising children and the effect it has when you aren't ready to raise them.

We keep this whole, "its none of my business" mentality and personally, I just think we need to treat the heart of the matter...PARENTING, its not a right, it's a responsibility, not only to your children, but to society in general.

 

[luvsJack]

Great post, and my thoughts also. Just because the mom was "husband hunting", what does that really mean? Did she date once a week or was she at the bars every night until 2 am? The grandparents throwing money at him - what does that really mean? Does that mean they bought him clothes, a car, paid for camps -- things that a lot of us provide for our kids. That doesn't make them bad either.

With the few sentences, I don't think there's enough info to determine who is at fault, but you can't deny that he doesn't bear responsibility.

I do agree about that he bears at least a larger portion of the responsiblity, but I wanted to answer your questions.

His mom did everything she did toward finding a husband ( and she preferred those with money). She dressed like very provactively all the time. If it was male and over 18, she flirted with it. and she spent a lot of time at bars on the weekends. Finding a husband was more important than her kid. Which doesn't make her responsible for his choices, I guess. But that is how she was. She now lives in another state with a "rich man" (her son's words).

The grandparents, well, I never met the people and I don't think he saw them very often. It was his fathers parents and I think they were trying to make up for their absent son by sending this kid money all the time. Large checks. His mom didn't work much, they lived off these checks. He wore the most expensive clothes, had a car by 15, etc. I think they really thought they were doing good by him. I think they really did love their grandson. Sadly, they have both died so he doesn't have them to go back to.

 

[luvsJack]

Mentioning he is bipolar does change things because he lacks impulse control. Pair that with his Mom's glorification of the ideal man being a criminal and things do fall into place.

ai didn't realize this was a childhood frind of your son's, that changes things for me too. The fact this person is seeking your son out tells me that maybe he can be ok if he feels there is a payoff in it. I didn't have any supports but I watched my friend's families very closely for clues on how to behave and they had an enormous influence on me. You might be surprised at how important your approval may be to this guy, and how easily your influence can turn him around, and also how influential you son can be too. My BFF at the time's family was a total mess too, but a lesser mess then mine if that makes sense, and her parents had a huge influence on how I view parenting and love. My high school boyfriend's family taught me stuff too, about saying I love you... I never heard it before and liked it so I did it. I call myself a quilt all the time, made up of bits a pieces I took from the people around me even if they didn't know it.

In the case you describe I would not walk away because my conscience wouldn't let me. Maybe you are supposed to be a mother to more than one son in this life

Oh, my there are many that I would take under my wing if I could!

I hope you are right. I hope he will see how ds has chosen to live his life and start making some of those same choices. I really think I will try to start guiding him in the right direction.

Somebody mentioned teaching him to cook--that may be the first thing in order. He and ds came by the house one evening at supper time and I told them both to fix a plate. He just went on and on how great it was (nothing special baked chicken, roasted potatoes and green beans) and I knew he was really hungry. It just made me want to cry! So, I think I will tell ds to bring him over and I will teach him how to at least cook eggs and fry hamburgers and maybe make spaghetti! While I am doing that I can start talking about the GED program and welding.

 

[bettymae1121]

His parents probably started with it but, overall, I believe the mental health *system* in this country (or lack of one) is mainly the cause for failure.

If we are to believe what we know about bi-polar disorder, an untreated bi-polar cannot make good decisions. So, being untreated at 17 and 20 and probably on a manic high, probably explains his armed robbery "decision."

So, up until that time, I blame the parents and health care personnel for not treating this child properly before he got to that point.

Now that he has been incarcerated and obviously not rehabilitated well enough, I blame them for not doing what they are supposed to do with criminals who are in for the short-term: rehab them and make them productive.

That's over now and the young man is being treated and taking his meds. It's time for him to own it.

ITA with this. Everyone failed him, but now that he is out and on meds, he needs to figure it out. He still needs some help while he figures it out and I hope he gets the support he needs, but from here on in it's pretty much in his hands as to what his future is going to look like.

 

[Buckalew11]

His family failed him. Now he is failing himself, reaching out for help. I hope he gets it.

My sister had a little boy in school whom she helped all through grade school, middle school and high school. In and out of juvenile and in and out of jail. He and I wrote letters to each other when he was in jail--it was heartbreaking to me. I have no idea where he is now or what he is doing with his life.

I hope you can help this young man and I hope others reach out to him and I hope he reaches deep within himself to become someone he is proud to be.

 

[eliza61]

And this, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with society today.

Since when does it "take a village" to convince someone that armed robbery is WRONG?

Stop making excuses for people and their choices. Lots of people grow up in situations that are much worse.

Gangs do not "clothe and feed kids" until they come of age. That's ridiculous.

It's not as easy as knowing whats wrong. Many alcoholics know that their drinking is destroying lives but yet don't stop drinking. and yes, I know that some alcholics have genetic dispositions etc, etc. My point is that as usual the issue isn;t as black and white. I don't want to turn this into an "addiction" thread. I was just using that as an example.

Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law but also do it for more pressing issues.

And why do you think gangs thrive? no they don't clothe and feed these kids, they give them some thing much more important, some thing that as humans we need. They give them attention, affection a sense of belonging even if it's totally misguided. Gang members know exactly how to recruit these kids. they know these kids are neglected and abadoned but at least inside the gang they feel like they have a "family".

So in answer to the OP,

every one failed him (including himself). It would be so nice if every one was able to deal ala John Wayne but "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" only works if you actually have boots.

empathy, compassion, morale judgement are traits that are learned. research as shown as much. remember the study done on the orphans from Russia who were kept in an institution? So while he cannot continuely use his upbringing as a crutch, neither can he fully move on until he has dealt with the demons of his past.

Hey, look at how many of us are still bearing the scars from our history. I think it's a bit unrealistic to say that abuse and neglect from childhood is not going to have a lasting effect on people.