Who else is dealing with CPM math?

[leebee]

What you describe in the second parts of this post, that is students arriving at University having received high grades in high school, unable to remember or apply what they've learned in 9th or 10th grade, is one of the core problems that the CCSS is trying to address. By giving them more experiences understanding the underlying concepts before they memorize the algorithms, and more experience applying those concepts and algorithms to real world problems, they hope that students will be able to actually use what they learned in contexts such as Chemistry class.

Now, will it work? That remains to be seen. And is CPM the right curricula to help kids reach the new standards? Very debatable.

I should also note that "New Math" was a specific movement that has been dead for a long time, and that unless your DH is teaching 40 year olds what he sees is not "New Math", and that "new math" meaning CCSS is likely not the problem either. Very few districts have taught kids who are currently in college using CCSS. The districts that seem to have the smoothest roll outs started with younger grades and moved up. I know for my son's district this year is the first year that Algebra 1 classes have been aligned, next year will be geometry, etc . . . Some districts are a year or two ahead of that, but even this year's college freshman, if they took calc as seniors took Algebra 1 and 2 between 2008 and 2011. The Common Core standards weren't even published until 2010.

By "new math" I meant ANY of it: Common Core, State Learning Results, CMP2, CPM, Everyday Math, whatever a state is using as an excuse for teaching math. In the mid-80s we started being more concerned with student's self-esteem than anything else, including memorizing basic math facts. If you look closely, you'll see that most "educational methods" change about every 5 years or so, when the powers that be realize that kids still aren't learning. They devise a different series of bells and whistles to try a new approach to making math fun, easy, whatever. Until they all kids graduate from high school being able to add, subtract, multiply, and divide, to handle fractions, decimals, and percentages (and realizing how they are related), to understand place value, area, perimeter, volume, exponents, and how to decipher a word problem, it'll all be "new math" and it'll all be worthless.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

By "new math" I meant ANY of it: Common Core, State Learning Results, CMP2, CPM, Everyday Math, whatever a state is using as an excuse for teaching math. In the mid-80s we started being more concerned with student's self-esteem than anything else, including memorizing basic math facts. If you look closely, you'll see that most "educational methods" change about every 5 years or so, when the powers that be realize that kids still aren't learning. They devise a different series of bells and whistles to try a new approach to making math fun, easy, whatever. Until they all kids graduate from high school being able to add, subtract, multiply, and divide, to handle fractions, decimals, and percentages (and realizing how they are related), to understand place value, area, perimeter, volume, exponents, and how to decipher a word problem, it'll all be "new math" and it'll all be worthless.

I read these kinds of posts, and frankly, I feel really confused as an educator. The message I read is that we haven't in the past succeeded in teaching math to all students in ways that carried over to real life, but that changing how we teach or what we teach to try and address that is worthless.

What exactly do you think that educators should do to address the problem you see if the current state is a problem, but changing things is worthless? Should we all just give up?

 

[leebee]

I read these kinds of posts, and frankly, I feel really confused as an educator. The message I read is that we haven't in the past succeeded in teaching math to all students in ways that carried over to real life, but that changing how we teach or what we teach to try and address that is worthless.

What exactly do you think that educators should do to address the problem you see if the current state is a problem, but changing things is worthless? Should we all just give up?

I am at work and in between classes (just finished a 5th grade group, waiting for my 2nd graders), but some ideas? Stop using math programs that are so strongly rooted in reading/English. This leaves any kid behind in math because s/he isn't at grade level or beyond in reading. Stop using the spiraling programs. SO many kids don't learn the skill the first time around, then aren't prepared to use the skill for the unit built on it when the program spirals. Stop using small math groups where the kids "figure it out" on their own. They DON"T figure it out- many of them, at least- and are left with incorrect impressions as the lesson moves on. Stop worrying about finishing the book. MANY math programs now demand the book series be finished by the end of the grade, as the next year's program builds on this. It's not a success if the kids haven't learned the skills. Stop giving kids topics to learn before they are cognitively ready to grasp the concept or remember it. While I understand that different kids have different learning styles, could we try teaching some things directly instead of small-group "figure it outs" and then trying to teach how to do something three different ways? It just frustrates the students. I wish I had $1 for every kid who's said to me, "Why didn't they just TEACH it to us?" Edu-babble folks think that by doing things by inquiry, kids will learn better. I find they just get frustrated, angry, and give up trying.

So, some random thoughts. Gotta go back to teaching now.

 

[jodifla]

I am at work and in between classes (just finished a 5th grade group, waiting for my 2nd graders), but some ideas? Stop using math programs that are so strongly rooted in reading/English. This leaves any kid behind in math because s/he isn't at grade level or beyond in reading. Stop using the spiraling programs. SO many kids don't learn the skill the first time around, then aren't prepared to use the skill for the unit built on it when the program spirals. Stop using small math groups where the kids "figure it out" on their own. They DON"T figure it out- many of them, at least- and are left with incorrect impressions as the lesson moves on. Stop worrying about finishing the book. MANY math programs now demand the book series be finished by the end of the grade, as the next year's program builds on this. It's not a success if the kids haven't learned the skills. Stop giving kids topics to learn before they are cognitively ready to grasp the concept or remember it. While I understand that different kids have different learning styles, could we try teaching some things directly instead of small-group "figure it outs" and then trying to teach how to do something three different ways? It just frustrates the students. I wish I had $1 for every kid who's said to me, "Why didn't they just TEACH it to us?" Edu-babble folks think that by doing things by inquiry, kids will learn better. I find they just get frustrated, angry, and give up trying.

So, some random thoughts. Gotta go back to teaching now.

Great, great post. I'm not a teacher, but as a parent with a child who has a severe language disability, I find everything you say to be exactly what my child -- and all my friends who have children with similar issues --- to be experiencing with these new language-based math curriculums.

Math went from a strength to a class he hated going to when they went to this CPM math. The school is having to send out newsletters admonishing the parents for the kids to do their homework and participate in class. But kids aren't doing their homework because they don't understand it -- AND THE PARENTS DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. So they parents can't help them. Both the kids AND the parents are throwing in the towel. And because of the "group" process, the more verbally strong students are carrying the group, and the others are just copying their answers.

At least 10 percent of the student population has significant issues with language -- and some estimates put it more like 20 percent. So these language heavy courses put a huge roadblock in front of a sizable amount of kids.

 

[jodifla]

I teach CPM and I hate it.

Can you elaborate on why? Are you having any successes with it?

 

[jodifla]

I've kind of skimmed through a couple of the other threads. I know I've heard our school talk about the Common Core for the past couple of years, but I really haven't noticed any changes in our curriculum or textbooks. We're using the same math program that has been used for several years.

I can tell you though that if our school was using a curriculum where a group of fellow 5th graders was "teaching" my son Math and my son wasn't allowed to even ask a question without first convening a committee and passing a resolution on the proper wording - I'd be all over that like white on rice too.

I might even be inspired to post a couple dozen threads on the DIS in between my bouts of extreme anger.

Thanks, Rita! Luckily my son's teacher has modified the curriculum (he said it just wasn't working for the way his kids learned) but I know many other parents and kids in the district are just trying to suffer through it.

 

[jackilvsmath]

I feel that CPM is choppy in the way it introduces concepts. We just spent two weeks doing integer operation and in the middle of the many lessons there is a lesson on decimal multiplication. That does not make sense. I also feel it is too reading heavy (I have 7th graders reading at a 1st grade level who cannot read the book). I hate the idea that CPM uses that kids are not supposed to master the skill when we teach it, that mastery will come later. When they don't master it and we move on to the next lesson or chapter and they need to pull that skill out and use it with something else, they can't because they didn't master it. I also DO NOT believe in all of this group/team work. Kids need to know the basics before they learn how to work together.

 

[jodifla]

I feel that CPM is choppy in the way it introduces concepts. We just spent two weeks doing integer operation and in the middle of the many lessons there is a lesson on decimal multiplication. That does not make sense. I also feel it is too reading heavy (I have 7th graders reading at a 1st grade level who cannot read the book). I hate the idea that CPM uses that kids are not supposed to master the skill when we teach it, that mastery will come later. When they don't master it and we move on to the next lesson or chapter and they need to pull that skill out and use it with something else, they can't because they didn't master it. I also DO NOT believe in all of this group/team work. Kids need to know the basics before they learn how to work together.

Thanks. This has been exactly our experience with it. I don't know if you saw the earlier link I posted. There was a study of a very similar program used about 13 years ago, and the kids were woefully unprepared when they got to college. They hadn't mastered the basics. And these were kids in one of the best districts in the state.

 

[jodifla]

Here's a great article on the many flaws of Comnon Core math. (I was tempted to open another thread, but that seems to offend some people for some reason.)

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368595/common-cores-newer-math-david-g-bonagura-jr

"I have seen this “writing imperative” first-hand in my sons’ first- and third-grade Common Core math classes. There is certainly space in their respective books for traditional computation, but the books devote enormous space to word problems that have to be answered verbally as well as numerically, some in sections called Write Math. The reason, we are told, is that the Common Core–driven state assessments will contain large numbers of word problems and spaces for students to explain their answers verbally. This prescription immediately dooms grammar-school students who have reading difficulties or are not fluent in English: The mathematical numbers that they could have grasped are now locked into sentences they cannot understand.

The most egregious manifestation of the “writing imperative” is the Four Corners and a Diamond graphic organizer that my sons’ school has implemented to help prepare for the writing portion of the state assessments. The “fourth corner” requires students to explain the problem and solution in multiple sentences. How all this writing helps them with math is yet to be demonstrated.

In trying to learn both the “why” and the “how” in order to prepare for the state assessments, students will not fully grasp either: They will not receive the instructional time needed to learn how to do the operations because teachers will be forced to devote their precious few classroom minutes to explaining concepts, as the assessments require. The “how” of the basic operations, which need to be memorized and practiced over and over, will be insufficiently learned, since Common Core orders teachers to serve two masters.

 

[jodifla]

And from Carol Burris, a principal in New York, more inappropriate math:

"The problems with Common Core Algebra, however, go well beyond this video. I asked three of my most experienced teachers to analyze the topics of the course. They were startled to find advanced algebra, pre-calculus and calculus topics in this course designed for 8th and 9th graders. Our calculus teacher, Jeff Rubenfeld, had no idea why a beginning algebra course would include topics such as piecewise functions, which are taught in calculus. According to Jeff, the best preparation for advanced mathematics is a sound foundation in algebra, not the introduction of complex topics beyond what should be the scope of the course."

 

[EmJay2001]

I know this is an old thread but I did not want to start a new one. A friend posted this on Facebook today:

http://www.tickld.com/x/hilarious-letter-written-by-angry-

I thought it was pretty funny. I am Canadian so don't have the same exact issues, but they are similar. Sometimes I look at my kids homework and shake my head, I have a BMATH from Waterloo, so hits a bit close to home.

 

[arminnie]

I have a degree in math - highly theoretical math. I also did graduate level studies in math.

I understand the common core stuff that I have seen - but I think it is STUPID to expect a young child to grasp these concepts - especially someone who does not have a particularly high aptitude in math.

The common core stuff that I have seen seems to geared at teaching young people that "math" is something that is too hard to understand.

I HATE that. I don't think math is hard at all if presented properly. Seriously 2+2=4. What is hard about that?

 

[Disneychick75]

There was an article on my Yahoo homepage the other day about an upset dad who has a PhD. He could not understand his daughter's kindergarten math homework. Other parents have complained of 4th graders having problems that take 4 pages to complete. I'm so happy that we've found a great school that doesn't follow this absurd common core program. Kids should love school especially in the early grades.

 

[Kimberlyann11]

There was an article on my Yahoo homepage the other day about an upset dad who has a PhD. He could not understand his daughter's kindergarten math homework. Other parents have complained of 4th graders having problems that take 4 pages to complete. I'm so happy that we've found a great school that doesn't follow this absurd common core program. Kids should love school especially in the early grades.

I saw one on my yahoo home page about a PhD dad - I don't know if it's the same one you saw.. It never showed the problem or explained what it was he didn't get. It said that he didn't like that the publisher's name was on the worksheet and apparently there was a misspelled word. A huge load of propaganda.

 

[Disneychick75]

I saw one on my yahoo home page about a PhD dad - I don't know if it's the same one you saw.. It never showed the problem or explained what it was he didn't get. It said that he didn't like that the publisher's name was on the worksheet and apparently there was a misspelled word. A huge load of propaganda.

This article showed the worksheet.
As for propaganda, I know teachers leaving the profession and parents switching their children's schools because of common core.

 

[sam_gordon]

This article showed the worksheet.
As for propaganda, I know teachers leaving the profession and parents switching their children's schools because of common core.

If I understand correctly, Common Core is federally mandated. ALL schools must teach kids the appropriate skills to meet the CC requirements.

Where schools can (and do) differ is HOW they go about teaching the rquirements. Do they design their own curriculum taking into account the strengths and weaknesess of the kids and teachers or do they purchase a "curriculum in a box", hand it to the teacher and say "here you go"?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using DISBoards

 

[leebee]

If I understand correctly, Common Core is federally mandated. ALL schools must teach kids the appropriate skills to meet the CC requirements.

Where schools can (and do) differ is HOW they go about teaching the rquirements. Do they design their own curriculum taking into account the strengths and weaknesess of the kids and teachers or do they purchase a "curriculum in a box", hand it to the teacher and say "here you go"?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using DISBoards

I, too, thought Common Core was federally mandated, but not only are not all states participating, but individual school systems are withdrawing.

I think that it's a great idea for us to define specific math skills and by what age/grade level students should be able to accomplish these. I think it's important for us to identify what level of math kids should be at by a specific age. It's good to know that all 2nd graders can add and subtract, and that by the end of the fourth grade everyone should know the multiplication facts, backwards and forwards. I don't have an issue with establishing standards, per se. What I find foolish is all the math packages that abound, each claiming that your students will learn more, understand more, be able to apply more. Hogwash! If they don't have the basic tools necessary, they aren't going to be able to do ANYTHING.

I know several teachers who are taking early retirement this year specifically because of this whole Common Core focused math situation. We are an Everyday Math/CMP2 school, which is bad enough, but now it all has to be connected to reinforce CC. They are tired of being told what to teach, how to teach, and when to teach it, and tired of being told to spend endless time practicing how to do specific types of problems, what tests to give, how to give them, and how to grade them. Very few feel like the kids are actually learning very much, and most of us feel that we are no longer actually teaching. It's highly frustrating.

Unfortunately, whether your school uses "math in a box" or lets the teachers determine their own teaching style and program, everyone is doomed to taking standardized tests designed by one of two "education companies." We are going to be using Smarter Balance, beginning in the spring of 2015. We are practicing already. I helped out in the classroom on Thursday, when the class took its first practice test, although we worked on it as a class. The kids were baffled. FAR too much language in the question, too many concepts intertwined, too many different "parts" to the problems, to much "explain how you decided this." The kids at the lower end were lost, and even the kids at the upper end were confused. As one kid pointed out, "Here's all my work. You can see how I got my answer; I showed the work." Unfortunately, that's not enough anymore. He has to be able to write a narrative about his thought process for attacking this problem. He just kept saying, "I just knew what to do, and here's the work." Good math student, confused and befuddled by a test that has no place in a math classroom.

 

[Disneychick75]

If I understand correctly, Common Core is federally mandated. ALL schools must teach kids the appropriate skills to meet the CC requirements.

Where schools can (and do) differ is HOW they go about teaching the rquirements. Do they design their own curriculum taking into account the strengths and weaknesess of the kids and teachers or do they purchase a "curriculum in a box", hand it to the teacher and say "here you go"?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using DISBoards

As lee bee stated, some states have opted out of cc. The school I'm talking about is private and they do not accept federal money.