Who else hates the Dining Plan

[Mamu]

After reading these post the Dining Plan seem to have a lot of Pro's and Con's and it depends on who you are as to which group your in.

For Disney this sure does seem to fill it restaurants, are they making money though. Sounds like a lot of food. My fear is the quality of food will decline with the popularity of this plan.

For families this plan also sounds like a good deal. It's always great to have everything paid ahead and not have to worry about each days spending allowance.

If your a person who likes large meals this plan seem to fit.

The thoughts of booking a meal 6 months in advance is to say the least too much planning. Now a must-do with or without the Dining Plan.

For us light eaters, which is almost the whole family, excluding DH. My whole family watches our weight, eats healthy, avoid high carb foods, eats very little meat. This plan just doesn't fit into our life style. An appetizer is a meal for us.

Me I miss the great deals on resorts, Many a trip I've saved over a $1000.00. That sure does pay for my food plus.

Given the choice and a good deal I'd stay concierge over the Dining Plan any day.

I guess I have to except the fact the Dining Plan is here to stay and Disney is now a vacation that has become as stressful as our daily life. Every thing has to be planned ahead. You need to be at this park, at this time or at this resort at this time. Disney transportation can make this meal thats suppose to be relaxing a stressful event.

I often wonder what happens in the heat of the summer when eating light, staying hydrated and not eating heavy foods works on this plan?

Like the resort mugs (which I've never felt are a good deal) for our family. We do not drink soda (syrup, sodium and carbonated water), bug juice (high fructose syrup, artificial flavor and color) or the yucky coffee in these self-serve places.

 

[Tiger926]

Very interesting replies, to say the least. As I responded, way back on the first page, we absolutely love being able to make ADRs, sure it cuts out spontaneity for those of you who like to wake up and let your adventures for the day choose you, but for those of us who like to choose our own adventures, it works very well.

In regards to the other issue about gluttony, that's an interesting point as well. You all (US) and myself (Canadian) live in two of the most gluttunous and wasteful countries in the world. That said, do I and my family live that way? Nope! We don't waste food at buffets, and my daughter who will be turning 3 next month, has already been taught about limits and even she has self control at her young age. She is a fabulous eater, yet constantly turns down food or desserts. Why? Because she has self control. If she is not hungry, then she does not take food just because it has been offered to her, same with us. We absolutely never let her go up to buffets either and load up her plate as that is not acceptable either.

Just because we've paid - and let's be realistic here, none of us are really paying for the extra desserts on the DDP since a normal TS dinner meal for example, with appetizer, beverage, entree, dessert, tax and tip, comes to almost the entire cost of $37.99 for the plan - the plan still allows for a CS and a snack during the day, so know one has really paid for that dessert, and so if not going to be eaten, it shouldn't be ordered. Everyone's argument then that people feel the need to eat this way beacause they have paid is not acceptable for me. For example, we have lots of allergies/sensitivities and can't eat certain foods, do we order them anyway since "we've already paid?" Absolutely not, that's wasteful and gluttonous. If more people were able to practice self control and order sensibly, then gluttony is not as much of an issue - my hubby and I believe it's an issue because most people are selfish in nature. We watch how people waste food at restaurants, and imagine that these same people waste food at home as well.

It's a very interesting topic, but honestly, good eating habits come from within. For us, we only eat at TS restaurants, as I've grown up in a restaurant family for my entire life (35 years). We don't eat fast food at all and we eat very well and healthily at home - whole grain foods, small portions of meats, veggies at every meal and water for a beverage. We eat pretty much the same way while at Disney World - we may eat a little more some days because we aren't big breakfast eaters, but this is how we eat at home. Consistency is the key for us - whether on vacation or not. I will admit sometimes it's hard as we aren't perfect, and so my daughter or hubby will order something that they may not eat - this happens once in awhile and so for us we constantly remind ourselves about waste and really plan the times of our meals carefully, so this doesn't happen too often! My hubby's eyes are bigger than his stomach at times though, so this necessitates gentle reminders about portion sizes sometimes - LOL! whether at home or on vacation.

Interesting discussion. Happy, responsible eating to all! Tiger

 

[bicker]

For Disney this sure does seem to fill it restaurants, are they making money though. Sounds like a lot of food.

The cost of food ingredients is a very small contributor to the cost of running a restaurant. I think a lot of folks don't realize how little the actual cost of the ingredients are, as compared to the rest of the costs. This fact helps explain how Disney could have made so much extra profit last quarter while seeming to be so generous with the Dining Plan (even with all the abuse of the program).

OT: It also explains why they don't offer junior pricing or half-portions: Would any guest really be happy with paying $18 for a half-portion of a $22 entree? $4 is a rather generous estimate of the cost of the ingredients, to the restuarant, for a half of an entree. And of course, it costs almost exactly the same to acquire that customer, to provide a table and seat for that customer, to plate that entree, to serve that customer, and to clean up after that customer.

My fear is the quality of food will decline with the popularity of this plan.

Food quality will decline with the popularity of lower-quality food (and service, incidently) at lower prices, regardless of the existence of the plan. The plan is just a very successful marketing tool for deploying what, apparently, a great number of guests have been wanting.

For families this plan also sounds like a good deal. It's always great to have everything paid ahead and not have to worry about each days spending allowance.

We're traveling with another couple -- we're all adults -- and they very-much are relieved to have this opportunity to know, in advance, how much food will cost them for this trip. Having the costs capped like that has a lot of advantages.

If your a person who likes large meals this plan seem to fit.

We're not, but we still see the plan benefiting us (though clearly not as much as if we were major chow-hounds).

The thoughts of booking a meal 6 months in advance is to say the least too much planning.

I see that as a minor annoyance, which actually has a silver lining. It's only a minor annoyance because the reality is that three years ago you knew what types of cuisine you liked and didn't like. The things that would change your mind about which restaurants to visit closer to you trip than six months are things that are as-likely-as-not to be spurious data, misdirecting you away from something you wouldn't enjoy less, and /or perhaps misdirecting you to something you won't enjoy more. That gathering of (potentially spurious) data is where you could get into the realm of "too much planning" -- except if you enjoy it, and if that's the case, you're probably here, like many of the rest of us, enjoying it year-round, and already know, at the six month point -- heck, before you finish your previous visit -- where you want to dine next time.

The silver lining is important: I read messages from a lot of newbies saying that they don't know how to structure their trip. They're overwhelmed. Having dining set in stone helps anchor the trip, reducing the overwhelming number of choices available, and making the planning activity more manageable for the folks who don't spend vast amounts of leisure time studying WDW. (Again, those of us who do happily spend vast amounts of leisure time studying WDW do so all year round, and so can simply just make the right choices six months prior to the trip.)

And they're not commitments. You can change them as much as you wish, as long as there is availability. If there isn't availability, at least you have something booked, based on the best information you had available at the time you had to book. Again, an anchor point that helps with the planning of the rest of the trip.

The only losers are folks who value spur-of-the-moment decision-making. However, I'm happier with benefits going to people who do plan ahead than I would be with there being no advantage for planning ahead. There should be a reward for planning ahead, IMHO.

I miss the great deals on resorts

I always wondered if Disney was doing itself a disservice there. Like it or not, WDW is a premium offering. My family was too poor to enjoy a Disney vacation when I was growing up, and that's still the case for many, many families in the United States. As a premium offering, there is a very big cost to the enterprise whenever you discount your offerings. It devalues them. It is always better for premium offerings to provide incentives to buy more at the same price, than buy the same amount at a lower price. For example, a fine restaurant might comp guests a glass of wine, or invitations to wine tasting events, rather than providing dollars-off entrees. When premium service providers discount their offerings, it is a clear indication that the US economy is in trouble.

Disney is now a vacation that has become as stressful as our daily life.

There is no need for that. It is all a matter of perspective. Stress is something you impose on yourself, by the crafting of your expectations in a manner inconsistent with what reality dictates you can reasonably expect.

Every thing has to be planned ahead. You need to be at this park, at this time or at this resort at this time.

Knowing that, you can make that your expectations, and eliminate all the stress, and also help avoid setting yourself up for dissatisfaction.

 

[bicker]

Just a side-comment on "wasting food". I think that's a red-herring. Food is a renewable resource, and our planet has more than enough resources, if we chose to apply them, to make enough food for everyone, everywhere, every day, forever (practically-speaking). The only barrier is how we choose to deploy our resources (capital, people, etc.)

Crude oil is a limited resource: The sun and Earth (the constituent ingredients for making food) are not.

 

[richard_andmel]

I don't mind the restaurants being full. I don't mind that they are full of people that might not have eaten there before. I think that's great. And I actually like to have my meals planned out in advance with ADRs while I am there. That is one less decision I have to make while actually on my vacation.

What I mind is that Disney has decided since the restaurants are full we don't need to offer as much choice. We can take some of the more unusual or harder to prepare foods off the menu. It's like they said these people have to eat here or they are going to be eating CS because we are full up. They will just be happy with what we offer them, and how it's prepared.

12 out of 16 nights of eating food that is turning into the equivalent of eating at a family style chain restaurant is not going to wash with me. So this year for the first year I have decided to eat outside of WDW a couple of times. I am staying on property at the AKL, but going out of WDW to spend some of my food money. I am voting with my wallet.

 

[bicker]

What I mind is that Disney has decided since the restaurants are full we don't need to offer as much choice.

That's not a Disney-specific trend. It has become generally-accepted throughout the restaurant biz, both at the up-scale restaurants (what Disney calls "Signature") and the second-tier, premium restaurants (which equates to the best of Disney's 1TS restaurants) that smaller menus are better. This knowledge has come to the fore just in the last four or five years. It substantially helps with internal efficiency, and that helps reduce cost, allowing a restaurant to devote its limited resources to excelling in a specific area, rather than having to incur the cost of being everything to everyone. You typically don't see large menus, now, until you get down to the more mainstream sit-down/fast-food restaurants (Applebees, TGIFridays, Bennigans, Rainforest Cafe, etc.) and in those cases, you're not seeing a chef preparing meals, but rather short-order cooks putting pre-prepared food items through a process defined by a work instruction, for maximal efficiency rather than culinary artistry. I suspect some of the lower-end 1TS restaurants at WDW use that approach -- you can probably tell which ones by which restaurants have the largest menus.

 

[MICKEEP]

I started this thread to voice my displeasure with the loss of spontaneity that has evolved since the inception of the DP. What the responses indicate is that there are two very distinct schools of thought on this. Both of which are valid.
But more importantly what I have discovered from these very eloquent and intelligent responses is that there are many more reasons that people do not like the DP such as gluttony, waste, health issues, the effect it has on service, quality changes to the menu, etc.
IMHO, The DP seems to be a very successful venture for Disney and I do not see them discontinuing it in the near future. It brings people into the restaurants and it brings people into the resorts.
But I have a confession to make......Though I dislike the plan for what it has done to our eating style, IF the plan is being offered we will get it because it saves us money. But I would give up that savings in a minute to return to the way things were before the plan.

 

[Dreamfinder2]

This is all facinating stuff. It's all academic to me right now, but we'll be test driving the plan in a couple of weeks, and I'm looking forward to getting some hands-on experience.

When we stayed at the CR on our honeymoon, back when the earth's crust was still cooling, we were on some sort of package. This was 1980 ... three resorts and a campground, MK only. We had a coupon book for the current handful of restaurants. I distinctly remember our first meal as newlyweds was at the Gulf Coast Room, on the 2nd floor of the CR. Dee-lish, and just laying a coupon down on the table when we were through was empowering, in an odd way. (And those were the days when you rationed E tickets, and wondered what you were gonna do with all those A's and B's.)

26 years later and a buncha trips later, this will be the first time we've had a similar experience. We're DDE holders and have used that service, but the idea of pre-paying virtually all our meals (we're at SSR, so we'll have breakfast in the villa) is extraordinarily appealling. We were at WDW over New Year's in Dec. - Jan., and unless there has been some sort of precipitious drop in quality and service in the last five month, we'll do just fine. Alfredo's, for instance, was the best it had been in years.

I tend to put things in perspective by comparing WDW food to other resort areas and theme parks. The four parks at WDW beat any other theme park for food service, hands down ... try to get a balanced, nutritious meal at most any Six Flags, for instance. Only the Universal parks, with a couple of bright spots like Mythos and Lombard's, comes close in quality.

Once you move into the resorts, and compare Disney offerings to other resort areas, or to food towns like NYC, New Orleans, and San Francisco, it's gonna get a little more spotty. But some places like Jiko and certainly V&A's can more than hold their own.

It's all a matter of perspective, methinks.

 

[bicker]

But I have a confession to make......Though I dislike the plan for what it has done to our eating style, IF the plan is being offered we will get it because it saves us money. But I would give up that savings in a minute to return to the way things were before the plan.

This is a critical distinction: It isn't a matter whether more people like it or don't, but rather how it affects people's purchasing decisions. So while it does seem like there are a lot of people who are buying into the Dining Plan because they like it, and perhaps even more people who like it than who don't (just going on the overall number of messages from folks gushing with enthusiasm for every new snack reported as being now on the Dining Plan), that isn't the whole story: If folks who "don't like" the Dining Plan still patronize the restaurants (even just switching to the higher-priced Signature restaurants), or, as in your case, even go so far as purchasing the Dining Plan, that still counts as "votes in favor" of the Dining Plan from Disney's perspective.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Nice post MICKEEP and swimmom you hit the nail on the head, for me at least.

Too often here people aren't really reading what's being said, maybe reading between the lines when there is really nothing sinister there. No one I've seen is blaming Disney for people's gluttony or for being profitable. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the implications and ramifications of such behavior. Regarding the gluttony, we are the fattest country on earth, enough said? Regarding the popularity of the the DDP's, no one disputes that they are putting the desires of the many above the desires of the few...(Kind of odd how a decidedly socialistic idea can be turned capitalistic in a different context, eh?) And yes, Disney's job is profitability.

WDW is many things to many people. At one time Disney had employed the most Sommeliers in the World, I wonder if this is declining. Top Chef's have come to Disney and not fit in and boom they're back to Napa or San Francisco. Great Disney trained chef's like Chef John at CG or Chef Hans at FF have their hands tied by management on what and how they serve, unlike the old days...How long until these guys too find more creative pastures? Then what happens? These signature restaurants become more and more assembly line without the care and reputation of a seasoned and dedicated chef? Sure this is a leap but in the context of discussion can anyone not see this as a distinct possibility?

The DDP has put fine dining at WDW on a slipery slope, IMO.

 

[Pedler]

Nice post MICKEEP and swimmom you hit the nail on the head, for me at least.

Too often here people aren't really reading what's being said, maybe reading between the lines when there is really nothing sinister there. No one I've seen is blaming Disney for people's gluttony or for being profitable. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the implications and ramifications of such behavior. Regarding the gluttony, we are the fattest country on earth, enough said? Regarding the popularity of the the DDP's, no one disputes that they are putting the desires of the many above the desires of the few...(Kind of odd how a decidedly socialistic idea can be turned capitalistic in a different context, eh?) And yes, Disney's job is profitability.

WDW is many things to many people. At one time Disney had employed the most Sommeliers in the World, I wonder if this is declining. Top Chef's have come to Disney and not fit in and boom they're back to Napa or San Francisco. Great Disney trained chef's like Chef John at CG or Chef Hans at FF have their hands tied by management on what and how they serve, unlike the old days...How long until these guys too find more creative pastures? Then what happens? These signature restaurants become more and more assembly line without the care and reputation of a seasoned and dedicated chef? Sure this is a leap but in the context of discussion can anyone not see this as a distinct possibility?

The DDP has put fine dining at WDW on a slipery slope, IMO.

I think what you are seeing is that Disney Dinning is becoming less for the foodies and more for the masses. That is not to say the upper end places will dissappear but there is just more money in attracting the masses to stay on site for the entire trip and spend all of thier money at WDW. They may loose some of the more select foodies business but I would think that is a trade off they are willing to make. I understand why the folks that prefer to make spur of the moment dinning choices and really appreciate fine food in a quite atmosphere may not like the changes.

For the mouse I think they have realized that food is another tool they can use to keep people on site and they have designed a dinning program to appeal to the broadest possible audience. The menu changes appear to have been going on for awhile. It would be interesting to know how many people using the dinning plan and by default staying on site would have otherwise stayed off site and not spent as much at Disney.

 

[Tiger926]

Good points, Bicker. I would just like to clarify though that most big, chain restaurants make a good profit, but not mom and pop, local restaurants. My family has gone years without making much money at all, as my family only serves real veal, that my dad hand cuts into veal parmigiana with homemade sauce and very expensive cheese - the food quality is unmatched, but the profits are low or non-existent. Also, over here in Canada our minimum wage per hour is very high - $7.00/hour for restaurants, plus tips, not so in the US. My hubby and I were just in an Olive Garden in MI a few weeks ago where the server told us he was only making $2.85/hour - I'm sure the food servers at Disney make the same = huge profits for these types of restaurants as you pointed out.

I forgot to mention in regards to the gluttony thing that I think a lot has to do with the terrible eating habits of most people we see in the parks. When you eat crap all day, no wonder you have no room for a chicken and salad for dinner! We eat a small breakfast (toast or muffin, piece of fruit or juice), lunch (sandwich, salad or soup), and then we are able to eat well at dinner. We also eat snacks throughout the day of pretzels, cheese sticks or fruit - water or small juice for a beverage. Most families we see at WDW eat terribly all day long - ice cream, pop, popcorn, hamburgers and hotdogs. When you fill up on this stuff all day long, then of course you won't have room for a good dinner.

I really think people need to work on their dining habits throughout the day while at the parks, and then the Dining Plan will be better utilized as food should be spread out throughout the day, which is what the DP allows for - bigger meal for lunch or dinner, with smaller meals and healthy snacks throughout the day.

Just my humble opinion, Tiger

 

[ZerasPride]

I have so much enjoyed reading this thread. It has truly given me much food for thought.

Our plans may be changing. We have two teenagers (my son and the son of the other family going with us) who may not be going with us after all. I may be re-thinking the dining plan for us now. It would cost me and DH a little under $400 for the plan. We wouldn't have to have a grocery delivery to the resort and I wouldn't have to bothered with any cooking in the villa and I'm all for that.

I do have concerns about overeating. Yes, I know I am the one in control of what I eat. But I have to tell you all, there is something to be said for community pressure when it comes to eating. The fact that I wore a size 26 jeans my whole adult life shows I'm not the best at fighting the herd mentality when it comes to food but I am proud to say that I have spent the past 2 years developing healthy eating habits that I am determined to hold on to no matter what. I wouldn't want to trade my size 10's for anything! Not even great Disney meals.

The only negatives I can see for us is that two of the restaurants we want to try are not on the dining plan and if I get into paying a la cart for meals, that takes away some of the value. I'm going to give this some more thought and talk it over with the others in our party and see what they think.

Thanks again to everyone for all your thoughts both for and against this program. This thread has been most helpful.

hollyB - I'm so sorry I didn't realize you commented on my weight loss so many pages ago. Thanks! I tell you keeping the weight off is proving much much harder than just losing it!

 

[Peter Pirate]

Kudo's to you Lisa, not only for losing weight but for recognizing wherein the real battle lies. I'm fighting my own battles in the desire vs. need area of eating and it's very frustrating when you get to a highpoint to lose focus and tumble back. I don't think getting older is helping me either!

 

[lilpnutmama]

We were just there April 28-May 4 and loved the DP. Honestly, we were talking about how amazed we were at how wonderful the TS service was considering they didn't have to "work" for their tips. Every meal had wonderful service. (some of the hostesses on the other hand seemed less friendly for some reason!?)

After a few days we figured out we could trade our CS dessert for drinks or snacks so we usually just got extra milk which we kept in a little cooler. Sometimes we would use it in our hotel room for breakfast.

Looking back, we realized we really could have split a lot of our meals, in particular the counter service ones and made the DP go further. But being pregnant I was happy to eat a lot LOL.

I only made my ADR's 2 weeks in advance and didn't really find it stressful making reservations. Some things I had planned were not available but that was great because we would probably not have gone to Olivia's or Kona for example if the others were available. We did change one at the last minute to eat at Crystal Palace and had to go at 3:45 but that was fine with DD.
We just made sure to eat lunch really early that day and split it.

Personally I would not go back without the DP.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Morning everyone.......before I head off to the gym to work out, I want to comment on this thread and have everyone take a bow who have participated in its growth without argument, personal attacks etc. Bravo!!!!!

I have a couple of questions, since I do not do the plan, when you say you share a meal, does that mean you order an entree and have it divided and plated separately. Second part, does the waitstaff have a problem with this or do they charge you extra for a separate plate. The reason for asking is restaurants around here if you try to split food will charge you for that courtesy.

I think we have all made some valid points here and I still am all for spontaneity....sorry guys, and will do my utmost not to have to plan everything right down to the minute for my vacations. This is our choice and we will deal with the crowds and work it the best we can. Sometimes it means eating earlier for dinner, I can deal with that and have my evening to myself. I do think some love the planning and for those with small children, the planning can be so fun as you are waiting for the vacation. The discussions and the excitment are all part of the magical vacation.

One more thought here, I do want to share something with you all. Many years ago, we did the Grand Plan and stayed at the Grand Floridian. After our experience, I vowed I would never do a plan again with Disney. I wrote a huge letter when I got home, how we had prepaid and did not get all that was on the plan. What I mean is when we checked in we should have been on the concierge floor, this was a big plan and very expensive. They put us in one of the other buildings, never allowed access to concierge, and we were disappointed. We did not realize we should have been on the concierge floor until we reread all the fine print for our plan. We talked till we were blue in the face, but no one seemed to care or want to help us while we were there. I did hear from guest relations when I got home, thanking me for my comments about what had happened to us with the "grand plan" but that was it.. They would make sure it never happened to anyone else. Disappointing, very.....do I still go to WDW...yes I do.. I learned then and there that I was in charge of my vacation, no plan for me, and I would tailor it our needs. So we do eat at signature restaurants, we have the Disney Dining Experience and get 20% off, I did finally buy DVC as we are going to continue to go there....but when it comes to the extras, we are in charge...food, pleasure, whatever, we do Disney as we choose...

Also, kudos to Zeraspride for working so hard to lose that weight and keeping it off. I also know that Bicker has also achieved a great weight loss as well. For those of us who battle it, we appreciate those who achieve their goals.

 

[DisneyGerry]

3. Tipping is regulated, thus discouraging excellent service.

We have used the DDP a few times and this is one of my biggest complaints and especially in the all-you-can-eat/ buffet dining arenas. Your server knows they will get 15% or whatever they get from DDP so why do any more than they need to or in some cases have done a lot less than they need to. Yes, I have accountered less than par Disney service under the DDP since they know they will get there 15% regardless of service.

It does bother me that you feel you need to eat your way to beat Disney (moneywise) in food credits=Gluttony

Other than that we love it and used it a few times and already booked with the plan in August. It is nice to eat each day at a table service. Maybe a TS once a week at home which is why it is a very nice treat.

Gerry

 

[Sugardimples]

I'm confused here. If you don't like/want the Dining Plan, just don't buy it. If you like/want it buy it. I don't think anyone is in a situation where they MUST purchase the Dining Plan.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Sugardimples, you've missed a serious part of the discussion, I think. Of course no one has to buy the plan but a lot of folks are disappointed with the ramifications that have come because of the plan (i.e reduced service, lower quality food, more generic presentation, crowds)...

 

[laura001]

We have never tried the dining plan, but I was going to on our next trip.
I figure that we would save money on the plan, especially because we wouldn't have to tip. We have a nice dinner (TS) everyday while we are there, usually share an app. 2 dinners and sometimes share a dessert, even with that I figure that to be approx. 74.00 with tax and tip, we usually would share a light lunch, eat breakfast in our room and sometimes have an ice cream or something during the day....therefore that would add another 20.00 or so per day so our daily total approx 94.00 ....cost of DD 75.98.....
savings of at least 20.00 per day and that is if we still only eat light. I don't mind giving away or losing my credits that I don't use. I would still be saving money!

Quick question:

Do I have to make ADR's for everynight because we are on the plan or can I take my chances and see what's available???