Which seats are safer on an airplane?

[Tikiman]

Sgtdisney,

You are right to feel that way about a DC-10 but there are very few of those in service that are used by any company as passenger carriers any longer. I believe only Northwest uses them as passenger carriers.

My mistake, I meant to say 737. Sorry for the error. The 737 has some design flaws that to this point I am told have not become a big enough issue to look closer at because it is not cost affective with all the 737s used by so many airlines. I believe it is the most used aircraft.

Most models have less than 10 fatal events. The 737 has 54 with many of them never having a cause for the crash and many times was in good weather. It is one thing when they identify a problem and upgrade the planes but you cannot do that if you don’t know the cause.

I like 767s (only 6 events) and my favorite to travel is a 777 (0 events). I know a 777 I am in can not be any older that 1990. Some models can be much older that are still in use. I will pay twice the cost of a ticket to get a good plane to fly on. There is no discount that is worth the risk even if the odds are very small.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Ohhh I love 777s. Greatest transatlantic flight EVER.

 

[Tikiman]

The MD-88 use to be the DC-9.

The last crash for an MD-88 was November The aircraft skidded off the runway on landing. The aircraft broke up and came to rest about 100 meters from the runway. There was heavy rain in the area at the time of the accident. There were 26 fatalities among the seven crew members and 146 passengers.

Bet you did not see that on the news.

You would be surprised how many things happe we don't hear about and you have to wonder when some designers of these planes won't ride them.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Oh no I knew about it, but I am in the "business" and read different aviation publications and reports on a daily basis. Somehow I didn't realize about the flammable materials until watching NOVA.

 

[Tikiman]

Flying to Hawaii where there is not place to make an emergency landing I won't fly anything but a 777, 767 or 747.

I am also not to excited about the new Airbus planes. They are nice and new but they are experimenting with using composits (plastics) for many of the structural parts including the tail (that snapped off in 2001). They are trying to make the plane lighter but I don't believe they are as strong as the aluminums that other airlines used. I know they test this stuff and we even use some composits that are great but I will wait until they have been in use a little longer.

 

[sgtdisney]

Ok Tikiman, thanks for the reply. I agree with you on the 737. I am really not very happy flying on those either. Basically for the same reasons you described. Kind of why I am not thrilled with the DC-10 or MD-11 for similar reasons. I actually in all the years I have flown have never been on a 767 and was on a 777 once. I loved the 777. It was great. I also used to like the L1011 a lot. I may be one of the only ones here, but I also actually like the MD-80 series. I like the 2-3 seating and have had good flights on those as well as the DC-9. It may be partly because my Dad used to be a DC-9 captain back in the days of North Central/Republic/Northwest before he retired. I was quite disapointed when Boeing killed the 717 so they could concentrate on the 737. I just don't like that plane. Tikiman, do you know if that have corrected any of those design issues with the next generation 737s? The 800 and 900 series?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Yep, I am not crazy about composites being used for stuctural parts.

 

[sgtdisney]

Isn't Boeing planing on making the 787 primarily out of composite materials? How do you both feel about the upcoming A-380?

 

[Tikiman]

I don’t mind the MD-80 too much. The one crash I can remember with the jackscrew problem was fixed and the other crashes seem to be due to other things other than mechanical failure.

The 767 is a 2 3 2 seating but it seems to be for longer flights. The crashes that happen with no conclusion to the failure analysis have not been incorporated into the newer designs but some of the known problems may have been. The people I know no longer work at Boeing. Also not all carriers use the newer 737 800 or 900. Most still use the 300 and 500.

Air Tran uses a 737 700
Alaska uses a 200, 400, 700 and 900
America West uses a 200 and 300
American uses a 800
ATA uses a 800
Continental uses a 300, 500, 700, 800 and 900
Delta uses the 200, 300 and 800
Frontier uses the 300
United uses the 300 and 500
US Airways uses the 300 and 400

Midwest still uses your 717 that you like.

Aloha

Steve

 

[Tikiman]

Yes the 787 is going to be about 50% composites but I believe it is over a aluminum and titanium framework but I could be wrong.

Even the 777 has composites but only just about 10% and it is not used in major structural units as it is in Airbus construction.

The 787 so far will not be used by any American companies. Most orders are for overseas airlines (mostly in the Orient).

I don’t see that I will have much chance to ride in a 787 or an A-380 unless my overseas travel increases.

 

[fairytalelover]

I have a few links to information on crashes, what planes crash the most and which are the safest if any one is interested.

.

Tikiman, could you please post those links? They sound quite interesting. Also, what are your thoughts on 757s?

 

[Tikiman]

I fly a 757 often to southern California and have been very happy with the experience. The 757 only has 7 events reported but it is also no longer in production but is still in use. Its rating is not bad with a .40 but ratings can be misleading since they are based on many things. The rating is based on the rate of fatal events per million flights. But the number of events is based on fatal events not all accidents reported.

If anyone is interested the airline with the most events is American followed by United but they also have more flights and a longer history than most. US Airways and Delta follow those two.

Here is the official answer to the original question.

Where is the safest place to sit on an airplane?
The short answer is there is no safest seat. In an aircraft accident where the plane is seriously damaged or one or more occupants are injured or killed, the severity of the injuries depends on many factors, some of which may not be apparent until an accident occurs. For example, there have been many accidents involving heavy smoke or fire where survival depended on the ability of the passengers to not panic and to quickly remove themselves and others from the aircraft after landing.

Here is a good question

Which is the safest airline to fly?
Clearly there are some major airlines such as Southwest of the USA which have not had a passenger die in an accident and others such as Pan Am and Eastern which have had several fatal events. Those facts don't make one airline automatically safer than the other although it does affect the public's perception of safety. The most important indicator of the overall safety of an airline is how it is regulated by its nation's civil aviation authority. Airlines operating large capacity (over 30 seat) aircraft in the major industrialized countries have to follow the strictest safety regulations. While the airlines operating smaller capacity aircraft have the choice of operating under the same rules, these smaller aircraft are not certified to the same standards as larger ones. Just as importantly, the airports and air traffic control system have to adhere to similarly high standards. Beyond that, use your good common sense. If an airline is notorious for poor on time performance, lots of passenger complaints, and severe financial problems, then perhaps it is time to find an alternative airline.

Here is the big factor for me. Old planes need to be removed. Here is a list of some airlines and the age and size of the fleet.

Average Age
AirTran 15.21
Alaska 9.37
Aloha 13.76
America West 10.29
American 10.46
ATA 8.16
Continental 7.35
Delta 11.22
JetBlue 1.73
Midwest 26.83
Northwest 20.19
Southwest 9.23
United 8.76
USAirways 11.42

Fleet Size
AirTran 63
Alaska 103
Aloha 23
America West 141
American 836
ATA 61
Continental 379
Delta 594
JetBlue 26
Midwest 36
Northwest 431
Southwest 370
United 561
USAirways 241



I am not saying everyone needs to worry about every little thing. I just think people need to be informed when picking a flight and an airline.

Here is where you can view safety reports and reports of incidents
http://aviation-safety.net/

For more info on 777s here is a good link.
http://www.geocities.com/khlim777_my/

 

[goofy4tink]

My word Steve, you are a veritable font of knowledge!!! Who knew. I was going to ask you about the 757's also, since we routinely fly Song and I would love to be able to wow dh with my 'knowledge' of the plane. The one thing I found interesting in your earlier post was your reference to 'my family'...amazing how having a little one makes you look at things from a whole different perspective, isn't it. Thans for your insight on these planes..a lot of stuff I had never thought about. Very interesting!!

 

[Tikiman]

Here you go goofy4tink. This will WOW your dh with info on the 757

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=101

I started thinking about this when I was going to fly on a cheap flight and told a guy that use to work at Boeing that I just wanted to save money. He asked me how much it was worth to me to change my chances of something happening from practically no chance (some outrageous number that proves flying is safe) to a small percentage. I figure the money is worth not even having a small percentage. Anything can happen but if you are in a good design with a company that has a better safety record and does not keep repainting old planes than you have a slim to none chance of anything happening.

Yes I never break that rule once I got married and now that I will be traveling with a child. There is no amount worth risking them to me. You can have your discount airlines but if they don’t make as much how much do you think they are spending on maintenance?

Aloha

Steve

 

[fairytalelover]

So, Tikiman, where do you usually try to sit with your family when flying?

 

[Tikiman]

Well I try to get a seat as close to the wing if possible but I don't worry about that too much myself because I do feel that if something happens it won't make much difference where you are. At that point it is just luck. Lately I have been flying first class and because of our miles the family will be flying first class on the next trip so over the wing is not an option.

I want to know all the facts but I am not going to become paranoid about it. If I am on what I consider a safe plane than I don't worry about where I sit other than for comfort.

I hope this was useful information and not too much.

Aloha

Steve

 

[fairytalelover]

Is there a list somewhere of the safest aircrafts (777, 737 etc..) down to the least safe aircrafts and also the safest airlines down to the least safe airline (AA, UA, SW etc..)?

 

[Tikiman]

Link to list of airlines with fatal events and rating
http://www.airsafe.com/airline.htm

Link to list of aircraft with fatal events and rating
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

Airlines with no fatal events
http://www.airsafe.com/events/nofatals.htm

 

[Lewisc]

I recall reading that a seat near the emergency exit are safer if the plane has to be evacuated after an emergency landing. Faster exit in the case of smoke or a plane that may explode.

 

[Tikiman]

One last commentary for those who would rather save their money….BUY YOUR BABY A SEAT!!!!

I was on a flight were a 120 lb woman was thrown into the ceiling from turbulence that came out of nowhere. She broke her neck so if you think you are ok with throwing your baby into the overhead than hold your kid on your lap and save the money.

If you call and buy tickets from the airline they will charge half price for any class of ticket going to a child 2 and under. Buy it and put them in a car seat. Also keep the seat away from aisles. Small children enjoy reaching out and exploring, but if they are on the aisle they could get hurt if their little arms get bumped by a person or serving cart passing down the aisle. Ideally, two responsible adults should sit on either side of the child. Also, one can seat the child on a row with a window on one side and a responsible adult on the other.

Just my two cents.

I think I have cluttered up the original posters message enough.