(When) will DVC go “negative”?

[BeachClub2014]

The average person only spends a little time in World Showcase. They do one single loop per trip. That's just a fact.

Lol, that's a purely made-up fact. You cannot say with any degree of certainty what the "average" person does, or doesn't do, while on vacation.

And with that, I will move along.......

 

[VGCgroupie]

I’m pretty sure it is the quickest way to get from room to park. It’s even faster if the pool is open and you cut through there to change out of your swimsuit after getting off of GRR

I was room to standing inside DCA in under 1 min once when the corn castle entrance was open and I had a ground floor room.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The average person only spends a little time in World Showcase. They do one single loop per trip. That's just a fact.

You have your opinions and others have theirs. I was happy as a clam at BW and BC. Even visting all 4 parks. I wound rather take a bus to only 2 places rather than 4 places regardless of your point of how far away crescent lake is. Personally staying at OKW would make for a miserable trip for me unless I paid for a Minnie Van but I’d also be mad I was having to foot then bill for a Minnie Van to not be miserable. I can say also on my last trips I have spent more time in Epcot than any other park and I have seen that many people are that way.

Point is everyone feels differently about things. Just because you say “facts” doesn’t make your point true.

 

[WinterSolider]

You have your opinions and others have theirs. I was happy as a clam at BW and BC. Even visting all 4 parks. I wound rather take a bus to only 2 places rather than 4 places regardless of your point of how far away crescent lake is. Personally staying at OKW would make for a miserable trip for me unless I paid for a Minnie Van but I’d also be mad I was having to foot then bill for a Minnie Van to not be miserable. I can say also on my last trips I have spent more time in Epcot than any other park and I have seen that many people are that way.

Point is everyone feels differently about things. Just because you say “facts” doesn’t make your point true.

My point is *factually* true. "Most guests don't spend a ton of time in the World Showcase" is a fact. It's not an opinion, it's not open to debate, it's a 100% true fact supported by internal Disney data and third party touring company data.

Regardless, people keep arguing a point I've never made. I never said Old Key West is better than Beach Club. I said spending points at Old Key West gets you more dollars of rack rate value than spending the same number of points anywhere else. Again, that's not an opinion. It's a fact. Just like if I said using points for Studios get you more dollars of value per point than 1 bedroom villas. That's not an opinion, it's a verifiable fact. That doesn't mean everyone has to say in a Studio. I never stay in a Studio, because I like having a kitchen. But then I don't get to claim that I use my points in the most optimal way as the original post that started this digression did.

 

[VGCgroupie]

My point is *factually* true. "Most guests don't spend a ton of time in the World Showcase" is a fact. It's not an opinion, it's not open to debate, it's a 100% true fact supported by internal Disney data and third party touring company data.

Regardless, people keep arguing a point I've never made. I never said Old Key West is better than Beach Club. I said spending points at Old Key West gets you more dollars of rack rate value than spending the same number of points anywhere else. Again, that's not an opinion. It's a fact. Just like if I said using points for Studios get you more dollars of value per point than 1 bedroom villas. That's not an opinion, it's a verifiable fact. That doesn't mean everyone has to say in a Studio. I never stay in a Studio, because I like having a kitchen. But then I don't get to claim that I use my points in the most optimal way as the original post that started this digression did.

I recently did a post about just that. Value of 1 beds vs others. I didn’t calculate OKW but for my travel dates I don’t recall OKW being expensive for cash rate. I will go back and calculate. Just using my dates for my own personal comparison. But I will update if I am wrong.

 

[Judique]

My point is *factually* true. "Most guests don't spend a ton of time in the World Showcase" is a fact. It's not an opinion, it's not open to debate, it's a 100% true fact supported by internal Disney data and third party touring company data.

Show us the data.

Just because you repeat something over and over doesn't make it 'factual'.

 

[WinterSolider]

I recently did a post about just that. Value of 1 beds vs others. I didn’t calculate OKW but for my travel dates I don’t recall OKW being expensive for cash rate. I will go back and calculate. Just using my dates for my own personal comparison. But I will update if I am wrong.

OKW is not expensive in cash rate.

It's cheaper in cash rate but it's more-cheaper in points, if that makes sense.

 

[Kayakc]

Disney is not a luxury hotelier... That's why they offloaded that type of business to the Four Seasons...

The Grand Floridian is themed as a luxury hotel. It is kind of funny if you think about it objectively. That said, the amenities available at the Grand Floridian are quite robust including the quick service options and many restaurants and bars.

When I go on vacation, I am looking for amenities. Dining, Pools, Hot Tubs, etc. DVC does pretty well on that front for a timeshare actually, but it isn't the same as staying at a true "resort property" somewhere else, and you are definitely paying for the location nd Disney legacy.

For a while, Disney's competitors were the Orlando World Center Marriott and the Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress. Now with Bonnett Creek for example having the JW Marriott, Waldorf Astoria, and also with 4 seasons being just down the road, the luxury traveler is likely not staying on property. Then there's also the new Evermore resort as well...

I'm a little surprised they didn't try to market LSL in that direction... It tells me Disney knows their strengths....

For years I stayed at Orlando World Center Marriott during annual visits to Disney World, and in 2023 I bought into the RIV. Honestly, the RIV is a super property. I don't feel I lost anything compared to World Center.

 

[airjay75]

Setting aside the debate about average DVC owners and average WDW visitors, I do think one thing that distinguishes BCV/BWV ownership is that it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to buy points at those resorts unless you plan to use them there the vast majority (if not all) of the time. So, not terribly surprising that owners of those resorts absolutely love them. The same could be said about a RIV resale owner.

 

[VGCgroupie]

OKW is not expensive in cash rate.

It's cheaper in cash rate but it's more-cheaper in points, if that makes sense.

Maybe this isn't what you were referencing. But I calculated dollar per point for my 2 travel dates. I took the cash rate and divided by the number of points for that stay.

2 Bed 5 nights in Feb
BCV 42.49
OKW 29.51

1 Bed 6 Nights in April
OKW 18.97
BWV 26.03

I did learn something by doing this, they dont rent Boardwalk 2 beds for cash! Im sure I know why but I wont get into that here.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Setting aside the debate about average DVC owners and average WDW visitors, I do think one thing that distinguishes BCV/BWV ownership is that it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to buy points at those resorts unless you plan to use the there the vast majority (if not all) of the time. So, not terribly surprising that owners of those resorts absolutely love them. The same could be said about a RIV resale owner.

I think a BWV 2042 contract vs an OKW 2042 contract makes way more sense for SAP even if you get the OKW at $80 and the BW at $110 (based off 100 points)

 

[Sandisw]

The average person only spends a little time in World Showcase. They do one single loop per trip. That's just a fact.

I can say that as someone who does help cash guests and families, this is pretty spot on.

More often than not, Epcot isn’t more than a once per trip visit.

 

[WinterSolider]

Maybe this isn't what you were referencing. But I calculated dollar per point for my 2 travel dates. I took the cash rate and divided by the number of points for that stay.

2 Bed 5 nights in Feb
BCV 42.49
OKW 29.51

1 Bed 6 Nights in April
OKW 18.97
BWV 26.03

I did learn something by doing this, they dont rent Boardwalk 2 beds for cash! Im sure I know why but I wont get into that here.

These numbers feel way off from when I did a similar exercise.

I did everything based on average cost over an entire year, so maybe there's something unique about these dates. Are these rack rates, or are there promotions available?

 

[VGCgroupie]

These numbers feel way off from when I did a similar exercise.

I did everything based on average cost over an entire year, so maybe there's something unique about these dates. Are these rack rates, or are there promotions available?

The 2 bed is rack rate no discount because no promos were available these dates for that room type.

The 1 bed included the discount available for both. So I made sure it was an apples to apples comparison discount wise.

I am staying at BLT those Feb dates and it worked out to a whopping $44 per point for the 2 bed preferred.

It’s possible if you average out over a year you would get different results. This was early Feb and mid April, for sure not the cheapest seasons for DVC or for cash.

 

[muppets3d]

In reality, EPCOT is the third most visited theme park in the country, behind Magic Kingdom and Disneyland Park.

I don't really think the International Gateway resorts are the bees knees (I think the rooms are rather uninspired for one thing) but to try to downplay the ability to walk to EPCOT and Hollywood Studios is kind of baffling to me. What a strange thing to pick an argument about. But then, this is a forum where people will argue about anything.

 

[VGCgroupie]

One could argue that a DVC guests aren’t the same as a cash guest so I would not compare DVC to how a cash guest spends their time at WDW.

DVC guests have more time to leisurely go to parks than a cash guest that try’s to maximize every hour at the parks. DVC you know you will back soon, a cash guest doesn’t always know when they will be back. So I think DVC guests are more likely to leisurely stroll Epcot and take in all it has to offer especially since there’s always a festival of some sort going on. Or they tend to spend more time at the resort and popping into Epcot for some food and drinks after some time at the pool is a great way to spend time.

 

[Sandisw]

One could argue that a DVC guests aren’t the same as a cash guest so I would not compare DVC to how a cash guest spends their time at WDW.

DVC guests have more time to leisurely go to parks than a cash guest that try’s to maximize every hour at the parks. DVC you know you will back soon, a cash guest doesn’t always know when they will be back. So I think DVC guests are more likely to leisurely stroll Epcot and take in all it has to offer especially since there’s always a festival of some sort going on. Or they tend to spend more time at the resort and popping into Epcot for some food and drinks after some time at the pool is a great way to spend time.

Very well could be true…but when DVc is marketing to new buyers and setting point charts, etc…which was part of the discussion…I think they do consider that as well.

RIV offers easy access to IG too…not as easy as walking but it can get you in and out for good and drink nicely.

But it has the Skyliner too which get you to HS which helps it stay as a strong one for cash guests and why IMO it was given the charts it was…

 

[eticketplease]

Very well could be true…but when DVc is marketing to new buyers and setting point charts, etc…which was part of the discussion…I think they do consider that as well.

RIV offers easy access to IG too…not as easy as walking but it can get you in and out for good and drink nicely.

But it has the Skyliner too which get you to HS which helps it stay as a strong one for cash guests and why IMO it was given the charts it was…

Valid point about the skyliner but BCV & BWV also have access to DHS via boat, walking or walking to get on the skyliner.

I think they were trying to be get as close to the last resort that when on sale that didn’t have another DVC location to compete with (PVB vs CCV). Luckily RIV is generally cheaper than PVB but there are a few times when RIV is more expensive.

 

[disneylandtour]

I can say that as someone who does help cash guests and families, this is pretty spot on.

More often than not, Epcot isn’t more than a once per trip visit.

EPCOT for years has been the "locals'" park. I think it's the least family-focused park. But it does have its audience.

 

[VGCgroupie]

EPCOT for years has been the "locals'" park. I think it's the least family-focused park. But it does have its audience.

I didn’t used to get it. Even after my first time there. Took one more trip to fully appreciate it. I’m learning to do less when we go, I’m so used to being a cash guest and cramming everything in on one trip.