When OK is not OK

[luvsJack]

I was thinking that before Universal fired the employee, they maybe learned of their affiliation with some white supremacy group. Just a thought.

That’s what I was wondering about. If they investigated the employee or questioned the employee about it and found more to it than the one picture. Of course they wouldn’t say what they found out and I understand that too.


Again, I am not for or against their choice to fire the person. And it was a deliberate move of his hand. My issue is the whole “only if it’s upside down” but “oh, wait it’s if it’s right side up too!” And we just keep giving idiots power to make whatever mean whatever they want it to. Like a op said, if they decide to adopt some color do we then stop wearing that color? If they adopt the thumbs up sign, do we stop that too? When do we look at intention? (hopefully that is what Universal did).

 

[Hikergirl]

The child's family feels it was. The character's employer apparently agreed enough that it opted to no longer employ that TM.

So it's based on a feeling but not a fact?

As far as the firing, that doesn't mean anything. Universal is going to placate the family since they decided run to the media.

My problem is that the assumption that is a symbol of white power is based solely on the fact that the little girl is black. None of us know the person in the costume, none of us know whether or not they have a history of racist behavior, none of us know whether he just places his hand like that because it is comfortable to them, or whatever other reason. We just feel like he's doing it because she's a little black girl.
Funny I thought it was wrong to assume things based on one's race.
I mean if one were to assume something negative about the girl, or let's say her mother because she's black it would be labled racist.
Yet, assuming what was done (to her- and I use that loosely) because she was black isn't racist? It's not because the person is (assumed to be) white?

I'd rather hear the whole story, and that would mean hearing from that employee. We know that won't happen though, the media likes to run with a story based on assumptions and not bother to investigate it and report the whole thing just in case it may not fit the narrative they are trying to push.
We all know this based on some very recent big news stories. Some will continue to blindly jump on the bandwagon and some will continue to wait until the whole story comes out, if ever.

 

[luvsJack]

Do we even know the race of the TM? I mean, since it’s a whole costume, does any part of the actual person show?

And now I wonder, did the family contact Universal before they went to the media? Does any article say if they did?

 

[cabanafrau]

What are you talking about?

I didn’t quote you, I didn’t reference you, I didn’t call you out in ANY way, shape, or form.

Maybe you have a guilty conscience?

I guess I'd have to wait until you pronounce judgment and let me know. After all it's a sure sign of racism to raise questions and discuss things rather than simply jumping in as a keyboard warrior and declaring people racists because they try to understand facts. Clearly there's something wrong with my moral compass for A, not knowing about the true evil intent of this gesture like every wise non racist person has forever; B, not immediately bobbling my head up and down in agreement that the incident with the photograph absolutely was racially motivated and C, that discussing the fact that I work in an environment where this gesture is routinely used in the course of business to convey information.

As I said, you've directed that slur at me previously. You're free to judge me as you see fit. I have enough courage in my convictions to withstand the assumption that I'm racist simply because I didn't jump into the protocol of a social justice warrior with a keyboard with my very first post in this thread and insist the incident in question must have been racist. Was it? I do not know. Hopefully those who took action to take away someone's job have facts behind their reasoning. If you or anyone else want to assume that indicates I must be racist or I'm secretly itching for people to be flashing gestures in an attempt to demean others, assume away. My compass ain't quivering.

 

[Heelish]

Do we confused the sieg heil now too as someone asking a question? No. Why confuse other ways of showing hate. Obviously some people use it NOW as a white power gesture, questioning why it was made shouldnt be an issue.

 

[PaulaSB12]

It isn’t ‘just an ok sign’. When you do it, do you do it upside down or right side up? Right side up is still 100% normal. Upside down like the picture is absolutely a specific signal.

Doesn’t matter who started it or when. The fact is, that’s what it’s equated with now, so knock it off.

http://data1.ibtimes.co.in/en/full/544919/history-okay.jpg so President Obama used a white power sign. It was a hoax site that claimed it was white power it is not and never has been saying now it is is daft.

 

[PaulaSB12]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...udios-character-OK-white-power-hand-sign.html
May I point out the elephant in the room the younger sibling is MAKING THE SAME SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for the upside-down sign being a rude word, it looks different to what the man did

https://www.boredpanda.com/sign-lan...osia&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic

 

[Heelish]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...udios-character-OK-white-power-hand-sign.html
May I point out the elephant in the room the younger sibling is MAKING THE SAME SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah so is this guy.

 

[Hikergirl]

Yeah so is this guy.
View attachment 441404

Except he isn't in the family's vacation photo.

 

[Southernmiss]

Op here is your chance to wear blue for a cause---October 7th.

Apparently the first Monday of October is World Stomp Out Bullying Day

https://www.stompoutbullying.org/campaigns/world-day-bullying-prevention/

 

[Hikergirl]

@Heelish
Do facts make you angry?
You posting that picture has nothing to do with what the pp pointed out- that someone else in the same picture has their hand in the exact same position as the assumed white supremacist.

 

[Heelish]

@Heelish
Do facts make you angry?

That the guy isnt in the photo? Is that the fact? I think you missed the point. At least we already know what side youre on.

 

[Hikergirl]

That the guy isnt in the photo? Is that the fact? I think you missed the point. At least we already know what side youre on.

Yes, I'm on the side of facts over feelings. And no the man isn't in the family's vacation photo. Are you saying the picture you posted is of the man in the Gru costume?
You clearly have no idea what the point of the pp said, otherwise you wouldn;t have posted a picture of a man who had nothing to do with the man at Universal to prove something that you feel is true.

 

[PaulaSB12]

https://news.yahoo.com/4chan-trolling-turned-ok-sign-013637339.html
In February 2017, 4chan users started the hoax "Operation O-KKK," a call to spread the sign around the internet and claim it as a symbol of white supremacy. The anonymous 4channer who started it added a graphic demonstrating how the gesture could spell out the letters WP for "white power." The same month, Media Matters for America accused Gateway Pundit founder Jim Hoft, who made the gesture in a photograph in the White House press briefing room, of using a "hate symbol."
"Leftists have dug so deep down in their lunacy, we must force [them] to dig more," the 4channer wrote in their post. "Until the rest of society ain't going anywhere near that ****."
SEE ALSO: Furries ban Milo Yiannopoulos from FurFest convention
The 4channer also called for other users to email and tweet at civil rights organizations and journalists "warning" of the symbol's meaning. The Anti-Defamation League notes that some of the 4chan users taking part in the bombardment may also be racists and white supremacists themselves, since the site is "something of a haven for them."
But by promoting the gesture as a hate symbol, 4chan's trolling has encouraged white supremacists to actually use it as a hate symbol. Brenton Tarrant, the white supremacist charged with murdering 50 people in a mass shooting targeting mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, flashed an "OK" gesture during a court appearance in March 2019.
That doesn't mean every use of the symbol is in support of white supremacy. Oren Segal, director of the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism, says "context is key."
"More people than not will use the OK symbol as just 'OK,'" he told NPR. "But in those cases where there's more underlining meaning, I think it's important for people to understand that it can be used, and is being used, for hate as well."
Mark Pitcavage, Senior Research Fellow in the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism, explained in a blog post that people must be skeptical when a new gesture is claimed as a "white power" or hate symbol.
"Leaving aside hate group logos, most hate symbols appear and spread organically, over time," he said. "The process of acceptance and growth in use typically takes months or even years, even for online symbols."
The willingness to believe that anything can be a hate symbol only feeds the trolls. Before jumping to condemn what could be a perfectly innocent gesture, check if 4chan is ****posting again.

 

[Jennasis]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...udios-character-OK-white-power-hand-sign.html
May I point out the elephant in the room the younger sibling is MAKING THE SAME SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for the upside-down sign being a rude word, it looks different to what the man did

https://www.boredpanda.com/sign-lan...osia&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic

Nope. The vulgar word in question looks exactly like the hand in the vacation photo. It is not typically held up and out as the website above shows (unless you are shouting it at someone).

 

[Heelish]

Yes, I'm on the side of facts over feelings.
You clearly have no idea what the point of the pp said, otherwise you wouldn;t have posted a picture of a man who had nothing to do with the man at Universal to prove something that you feel is true.

Twist things how you want. Its not a feeling. My point was made. You have an agenda. Sieg hiel, right? Adios.

 

[Hikergirl]

Twist things how you want. Its not a feeling. My point was made. You have an agenda. Sieg hiel, right? Adios.

I'm not twisting anything, you just fail to understand what you are trying to discuss.

 

[Heelish]

I'm not twisting anything, you just fail to understand what you are trying to discuss.

 

[Hikergirl]

Again what does that picture have to do with this statement by the pp?
May I point out the elephant in the room the younger sibling is MAKING THE SAME SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know you want to show that some white supremacists use that symbol, however I don't believe anyone here has said otherwise. You keep posting pictures but you don't address the fact that the younger child in the photograph that is the subject of this story is making the exact same hand gesture that the Gru character is.
You response to that post by the pp was to post a picture of a man that has nothing to do with that family's vacation.
Do you think that boy is also a white supremacist, afterall you keep posting photos of them.
Or are you posting photos as a way to avoid answering a question that you have come up with on your own instead of parroting some agenda driven talking point you saw on social media?

 

[mrodgers]

I know I'm guilty of referring to people in their early 20's as "kids" as my DD is now in her early 20's but the man from the Cubs game had a beard. If you're old enough to grow a beard, you're old enough to know better to flash an upside down OK sign behind an African American former ballplayer and reporter. Frankly, I don't care how rampant the game is now. The sign, especially when used on camera, means something else now. It would be like saying that extending your middle finger at someone was OK because a game called "the bird game" was all the rage.

If you are old enough to grow a beard, where is the rules that are handed out at the beginning of adulthood that states this is now something different? This incident is the first I'd ever heard of that. I've been flashed that on Facebook in gifs and videos for years, by adults as it's a chuckle from our childhood. Had I been watching the game and reporter on TV with my friends, we all would have exclaimed, "Ah, he got me" at this gesture.

You can't just make things up, then apply it to everyone in the world. You can't tell me after learning what that gesture has been for the past 40 years at aleast that this kid gave a white supremacy symbol on national television.

Why don't we just come out and incarcerate all white people for being racist and white supremacists already. It's what the world wants, lets make it happen. Or maybe not every single thing in life is about racism, really, virtually none of life is about racism.