When OK is not OK

[luvsJack]

Well you do you. I would not purposely make a symbol I know is a white supremacy symbol. I just wouldn’t. Once I knew that it is a racist symbol why on earth would I? Actually I can’t remeber the last time I even did this thinking it was just a symbol for “okay” nor can I remember seeing others using it that way. It certainly is not prolific at my workplace or with the students there, but maybe it’s regional.

When a student sticks his/her head in my door to say hello and I remind them of the paperwork they have not turned in to me yet, I get an "ok" sign as they leave to go to class. But, hey maybe its because I talk to some of them on a daily basis and keep up with what they need for financial aid and admissions.

Not sure why you are being so confrontational. Back off just a bit.

 

[Searc]

When a student sticks his/her head in my door to say hello and I remind them of the paperwork they have not turned in to me yet, I get an "ok" sign as they leave to go to class. But, hey maybe its because I talk to some of them on a daily basis and keep up with what they need for financial aid and admissions.

Not sure why you are being so confrontational. Back off just a bit.

Not sure why you're deliberately misunderstanding. Google it and maybe you'll figure out the difference when it is spelled out in pictures.

 

[Jennasis]

Well you do you. I would not purposely make a symbol I know is a white supremacy symbol. I just wouldn’t. Once I knew that it is a racist symbol why on earth would I? Actually I can’t remeber the last time I even did this thinking it was just a symbol for “okay” nor can I remember seeing others using it that way. It certainly is not prolific at my workplace or with the students there, but maybe it’s regional.

I am a certified diver. The "okay" sign is the sign divers give each other to let them know they are, well, "okay". It is in the PADI handbook. You must know it in order to pass your diving certification...and it may well save your life if you dive. I remember when I was getting certified and I had to take off my mask and put it back on, 30' underwater. I was pretty terrified doing it and my instructor knew this. Somehow I managed to do it perfectly and when I was done I gave him an enthusiastic "thumbs up" to let him know I was all right. A panic look crossed his face (note...the "thumbs up" means you need to surface NOW) and I realized my mistake and shook my head and gave him the "okay".

Intention, as noted in my link from the Anti-Defamation League above, is to be counted.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think the point is who decided this was a white power symbol? Why is this suddenly now a thing? Why does everything have to be something?

I’m assuming the white power ppl according to what ppl are saying. If I had to guess I’m assuming they chose to adopt a seemingly innocuous hand gesture to get away with in public including situations like what the OP posted.

 

[LSUmiss]

So one should never use the OK symbol again? That's it, if you use it, you're a racist? Anyone reading here now knows, so don't do it?

And to tack on, where does it stop? If a white power group says "we're going to adapt blue as our color. Wear blue shirts everyone!", then no one should wear blue shirts?

I'm not making any claims on the incident I linked. But at what point do people say "enough is enough" and not let others co-opt symbols, colors, whatever?

If it becomes widespread enough, yes. Look at the rainbow flag. If you wear something rainbow & you’re not a child, I would probably assume it’s for gay pride. It’s not a negative thing like white power, of course. But the point is before it was adopted by the LGBTQ community, it was just a rainbow. No one says you can’t wear rainbows, but it may have an unintended meaning to others who don’t know you. So be angry at the group who decided to make it symbol of something negative.

 

[robinb]

I don't know how old Gru is ( or even who Gru is), but the kid at Wrigley is my kids' ages and yes, the game is rampant with the kids today same as it was when I was a kid.

I know I'm guilty of referring to people in their early 20's as "kids" as my DD is now in her early 20's but the man from the Cubs game had a beard. If you're old enough to grow a beard, you're old enough to know better to flash an upside down OK sign behind an African American former ballplayer and reporter. Frankly, I don't care how rampant the game is now. The sign, especially when used on camera, means something else now. It would be like saying that extending your middle finger at someone was OK because a game called "the bird game" was all the rage.

 

[sam_gordon]

If it becomes widespread enough, yes. Look at the rainbow flag. If you wear something rainbow & you’re not a child, I would probably assume it’s for gay pride. It’s not a negative thing like white power, of course. But the point is before it was adopted by the LGBTQ community, it was just a rainbow. No one says you can’t wear rainbows, but it may have an unintended meaning to others who don’t know you. So be angry at the group who decided to make it symbol of something negative.

So why cant we (collective) decide it just means "ok"? Why do the WP people get to decide? Like I asked earlier, if they decide their "color" is blue, does that mean we shouldnt wear a blue shirt?

 

[LSUmiss]

No one other than the constantly offended by everything crowd knows anything about this gesture being misdiagnosed as a white supremacy hate symbol. Most people who would make this hand gesture understand it as a childhood elemetary and Jr. high school game. If no one but the constantly offended take it as a hate gesture, why should no one use it? They use it and they mean it, as a childhood game.

You mean most white ppl. I suspect if you were part of the targeted group you might know. So the guy in the pic was playing a childhood game on the kids shoulder?

 

[b2k1121]

It goes way back before a couple years. It's called the circle game that you can look up on the net. We played it way back in elementary school which was the 80's for me.

The game has cropped up on Facebook. People like me in their 40's are posting videos such as the last one I saw showing a fishing hole in ice and a hand with the OK symbol appearing and all my school day friends from 30 years ago laughing saying, "You got me" in the comments. A kid recently video bombed a news reporter's camera at a sports stadium and did this gesture and it was deemed a hate crime and he is banned now from said sports stadium. Anyone with half a brain knew what that actually was as it is as rampant on Facebook the last few years as it was all through grade school and high school in the 80's.

Yeah, look at this poor little kid playing the 'circle game' with his friends.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1125932193522515969

 

[b2k1121]

So why cant we (collective) decide it just means "ok"? Why do the WP people get to decide? Like I asked earlier, if they decide their "color" is blue, does that mean we shouldnt wear a blue shirt?

The color of your shirt is a lot different than a symbol you make with your hand for a photograph. The crips and bloods adopted red and blue but I've never been accused of being part of a gang when I wear a blue shirt.

 

[LSUmiss]

Yes, we shall all hold our hands in our laps and never use them for any purpose because we may somehow accidently and unintentionally give some symbol that some idiot on the internet decided to "make it mean xyz".

Another solution would be to stop giving internet trolls the power to make this mess up. Really not that difficult.

Let me ask you this...after this discussion, would you hold it up to another white person in a room full of black ppl where maybe you & the other white person were the only white ppl there or would it make you think twice just in case?

 

[LSUmiss]

So why cant we (collective) decide it just means "ok"? Why do the WP people get to decide? Like I asked earlier, if they decide their "color" is blue, does that mean we shouldnt wear a blue shirt?

I guess that would something to research in cultural phenomenons. Why do rainbows mean gay pride usually? Idk. This is above my pay grade.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I think there is an easy way to settle this debate. The group here who thinks the OK sign still means just OK should walk around various places flashing this sign to various strangers and see what happens. Then report back on the findings.

 

[luvsJack]

Not sure why you're deliberately misunderstanding. Google it and maybe you'll figure out the difference when it is spelled out in pictures.

I went to the suggested website. You are welcome to do the same. No misunderstanding. It shows the “ok” sign. Not upside down, not sideways. And besides it’s been said here more than once that it’s not upside down.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes.

Interestingly there's not even a consensus among the "authorities" in this thread if the hate gesture is up or down.

The gesture is in common use in courtrooms here all the time when proceedings are going on and people are coming in and out and we need to communicate back and forth among staff without interrupting what's going on. I guess we'll see if things change.

If this was legitimately used as an insult that's disgusting. If it was to demean a child that's even lower than low.

 

[luvsJack]

Let me ask you this...after this discussion, would you hold it up to another white person in a room full of black ppl where maybe you & the other white person were the only white ppl there or would it make you think twice just in case?

If there was an appropriate time to do so and I needed to tell that person “ok” from across the room, it’s possible. Because there would be no intention there. That is the HUGE part that too many want to ignore—intention.

Some things are offensive all the time just by what they are and what they stand for. With some things the intention needs to be considered.

 

[shh]

I hope some hate group never takes over the thumb's up....I text that one all the time.

but glad I clicked on this thread - I must be one of the rock dwellers referenced earlier, as I've never heard about this - and I read the paper daily with several active financial and lifestyle magazine subscriptions. Somehow this one slipped past.

 

[LSUmiss]

If there was an appropriate time to do so and I needed to tell that person “ok” from across the room, it’s possible. Because there would be no intention there. That is the HUGE part that too many want to ignore—intention.

Some things are offensive all the time just by what they are and what they stand for. With some things the intention needs to be considered.

I agree about intention & might not hesitate to use it in a setting where ppl know me & know my intention. But, in the scenario I presented to you, I would hesitate to use it just in case & opt for a thumbs up or a head nod if it were absolutely necessary that I communicate non verbally,

 

[cabanafrau]

Let me ask you this...after this discussion, would you hold it up to another white person in a room full of black ppl where maybe you & the other white person were the only white ppl there or would it make you think twice just in case?

It's a regular occurrence for the okay symbol to be held up where I work on a regular basis -- by people of any race or ethnicity to people of any ethnicity because it's normal for people to be coming in and out of rooms to drop off reports and documents or to indicate that, hey, we got so and so on the phone and let them know they need to get down here ASAP without disrupting the court proceedings. I see that the wisdom of the DIS assumes that this gesture has been widely understood to be offensive by all good and decent folk for eons, but I find it curious that word has totally skipped a major, racially diverse metropolitan area of the country to the extent that no one here has ever raised an eyebrow -- to include non-white judges sitting on the bench as the recipient of the gesture from staff.

 

[kimblebee]

Racists gonna race.


I can’t believe people are purposely muddying things. Actually, no, I can.