What's with the Menu Changes?

[disneyfav4ever]

The VAST majority of guests do not and are never going to know what's not on the menu today that was there yesterday.

I hate to bring facts into the middle of a good argument, but demand for beef is up 20% since 1998. Just because you (not talking to anyone in particular here) are eating healthier and cutting down on the red meat doesn't make it a trend.

At Spoodles, they used to have a $29 NY strip. Now just in time for free dining, it has morphed into "steak kebabs" (gee, the origin of cut is no longer specified) for $23. I would bet a night in the Castle (if I had one to bet) that the NY strip was the #1 seller on the menu. So how are those of you in the "Disney is cutting down on the red meat for our health" camp going to explain that one? After all, steak is still on the menu, just in a, shall we say, more profitable form now that the DDP hordes have descended.

I do not at all begrudge Disney the right to make a dollar. They can offer what they want and charge what they want. Correspondingly, if I don't like the choices or prices, I don't have to buy, and I won't. But the contortions some people go through to construct a theory that their beloved Disney could not possibly have the nefarious profit motive in mind when making various changes is certainly amusing. I don't know how some of you can even eat your (non-steak) dinners after drinking all that Kool-Aid.

I hate to break it to you, but the kebabs at Spoodles have been on the menu for quite a few months now.

 

[wen8jr]

It is the Dining Plan.

I believe that WDW makes the free dining offers at the EXPENSE of the resturants and the resturants have to make some kind of move to make a profit or go under during free dining since many more are on the DDP plan. Or the DDP altogether is the issue since it is now changing in the resturant's favor with the 2008 plan. To me this is an oversight WDW made (and the resturants by agreeing) with the DDP and especially with the free DDP.

The DDP plan is forcing these changes, the resturants simply cannot afford to continue the way it has been. I feel they have learned from their mistakes and now you and I can't eat steak and other items that they use to offer, the quality is less and the portions will get smaller.

If the new 2008 plan doesn't work, I would expect more changes or the DDP to go away altogether.

Personally, if purchasing the DDP doesn't work for us this trip and the resturants are not up to par I will be paying OOP looking for better resturants outside of WDW. A few good meals and good selection is that important to my family, otherwise I'd eat pizza the whole trip.

 

[mickey2000]

I hate to break it to you, but the kebabs at Spoodles have been on the menu for quite a few months now.

Your right! These cuts have slowly been taking place.....has nothing to do with free dining. Same thing is true with the steak at France and now the flank steak at Bomas...
IMO they should all (cuts) be in place for the new DDP 2008.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

IMO the changes are not because of DDP as I got the steaks last year on free dining. Yes I can go along with not having DDP and go back to a menu that has items on it that were similar to what was previosly offered. Sorry, but I have been eating at restaurants in Epcot for many years and during the past few I have NEVER seen so many cuts. I love Disney and hate to see the changes. I might have to start eating off property

So if it's not the DDP, what do you surmise it is? That they're lowering food quality "just because"? If they're charging for it, and guests are buying, I'd think Disney would be 100% behind it...

 

[disneyfav4ever]

You know I went to a local restaurant last week. The menu changed since the last time I'd eaten there. Must be the DDP.

 

[Gladguy]

The problem here as I see it is that the way the DDP is constructed, people are encouraged to order the most expensive item on the menu to "get their money's worth" on the plan.

My family didn't do the DDP on our trip, since we have some light/picky eaters, but I did take notice of what other tables were ordering (after I overheard them confirm their DDP status). For example, at Cap'n Jacks in Downtown Disney, I was amazed at how many plates of lobster tails went by. At $31/plate, you're certainly "getting your money's worth" if you're on the DDP with this dish! I'm absolutely convinced that 90%+ of the people gorging on lobster wouldn't be if they had to pay OOP.

The bottom line is Disney is a business -- a very profitable one at that -- and if they're losing money on a promotion, then it's reasonable to expect that promotion would be modified and/or cancelled.

All that said, I would prefer the DDP be modified to be more restrictive. That would allow the restaurants to remain reasonably priced (which they are, surprisingly!) and the quality of the food to remain reasonably high (which it is, surprisingly!).

 

[jarestel]

If they're charging for it, and guests are buying, I'd think Disney would be 100% behind it...

When guests start paying "real" prices for the food, then we'll see the true value. Until then, it's all speculation.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

When guests start paying "real" prices for the food, then we'll see the true value. Until then, it's all speculation.

I don't follow...

 

[illiniowl]

The changes are not as widespread as some try to make us believe. A few restaurants have made slight menu revisions. Just happens the revisions have affected items the people reporting really cared for.....this results in a knee-jerk emotional response to the revision.

I don't get why everyone complains when menus change. All restaurants change menus sooner or later. I may be slightly dissapointed if one of my favorite items is taken off a menu, but I get over it. There's still plenty of appetizing options at all the restaurants IMO.

And this is a little OT but it's a minor pet peeve of mine. Anyone who says anything is not 100% hunky dory at WDW gets labeled a complainer, is criticized for getting "emotional" over something so trivial, and is told to "get over it" and "you'll still love your vacation," etc. This is a WDW board, for Pete's sake. It's ALL trivial. The fact that someone merely posts a message to a message board about a topic doesn't by any means signify that that person is "emotional" about that topic. So the "get over it" advice is presumptuous (in addition to being condescending -- if it was your ox being gored, how would you feel if I told you "it's not a big deal" or words to that effect). But given that this is a message board (albeit one devoted to a trivial subject in the grand scheme of life), can we not let people post messages questioning the way things are at WDW, or maybe venting a little bit, without immediately giving it a pejorative label or trying to brush it away with dismissive comments? The OP felt she had to write back and defend herself against complaints that she's a knee-jerk complainer. Well, there's just as much knee-jerking going on on the other side, when people pile all over each other to point out "this is no big deal, it happens all the time, deal with it," etc. whenever someone dares to suggest that a change might not have been implemented with the guest's welfare solely in mind.

If steaks were disappearing from ALL ddp participating restaurants, I could see it being attributed to free dining but not because it is off of a couple of menus.

If steaks were suddenly off the menu at Le Cellier and Concourse Steakhouse I could understand the concern.

Back on topic...This is just classic. That's all I have to say.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

And this is a little OT but it's a minor pet peeve of mine. Anyone who says anything is not 100% hunky dory at WDW gets labeled a complainer, is criticized for getting "emotional" over something so trivial, and is told to "get over it" and "you'll still love your vacation," etc. This is a WDW board, for Pete's sake. It's ALL trivial. The fact that someone merely posts a message to a message board about a topic doesn't by any means signify that that person is "emotional" about that topic. So the "get over it" advice is presumptuous (in addition to being condescending -- if it was your ox being gored, how would you feel if I told you "it's not a big deal" or words to that effect). But given that this is a message board (albeit one devoted to a trivial subject in the grand scheme of life), can we not let people post messages questioning the way things are at WDW, or maybe venting a little bit, without immediately giving it a pejorative label or trying to brush it away with dismissive comments? The OP felt she had to write back and defend herself against complaints that she's a knee-jerk complainer. Well, there's just as much knee-jerking going on on the other side, when people pile all over each other to point out "this is no big deal, it happens all the time, deal with it," etc. whenever someone dares to suggest that a change might not have been implemented with the guest's welfare solely in mind.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

With all due respect, you can hardly take the high road on this one, especially when it was you who labeled those who don't have an issue with this perceived problem or don't agree with your "Disney only cares about the bottom line, guest perceptions be damned" POV as "kool-aid drinkers". Who knew that we were all required to sit around in a circle singing "kumbaya", all while patting the OP on the back for his/her opinions?

 

[disneyfav4ever]

And this is a little OT but it's a minor pet peeve of mine. Anyone who says anything is not 100% hunky dory at WDW gets labeled a complainer, is criticized for getting "emotional" over something so trivial, and is told to "get over it" and "you'll still love your vacation," etc. This is a WDW board, for Pete's sake. It's ALL trivial. The fact that someone merely posts a message to a message board about a topic doesn't by any means signify that that person is "emotional" about that topic. So the "get over it" advice is presumptuous (in addition to being condescending -- if it was your ox being gored, how would you feel if I told you "it's not a big deal" or words to that effect). But given that this is a message board (albeit one devoted to a trivial subject in the grand scheme of life), can we not let people post messages questioning the way things are at WDW, or maybe venting a little bit, without immediately giving it a pejorative label or trying to brush it away with dismissive comments? The OP felt she had to write back and defend herself against complaints that she's a knee-jerk complainer. Well, there's just as much knee-jerking going on on the other side, when people pile all over each other to point out "this is no big deal, it happens all the time, deal with it," etc. whenever someone dares to suggest that a change might not have been implemented with the guest's welfare solely in mind.



Back on topic...This is just classic. That's all I have to say.

I'm not saying don't be upset, I'm saying there's no need for this mentality that it's the DDP's fault, and a lot of people keep on saying they're going to cancel there ADRs for WPC. That's really going a bit overboard IMO. I had planned on what I was going to order too, and that was the crab cake, steak, and fondue, which we all know is now off the menu. But you know what? It's not going to ruin my vacation because of it.

My point was all restaurants change menus, and there's really no point to get all upset about it. This is the second thread that I've seen regarding the changes at WPC, and it's amazing how emotional people get over a couple small changes.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Hello pot, meet kettle.

With all due respect, you can hardly take the high road on this one, especially when it was you who labeled those who don't have an issue with this perceived problem or don't agree with your "Disney only cares about the bottom line, guest perceptions be damned" POV as "kool-aid drinkers". Who knew that we were all required to sit around in a circle singing "kumbaya", all while patting the OP on the back for his/her opinions?

Your post made me crack up.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I'm not saying don't be upset, I'm saying there's no need for this mentality that it's the DDP's fault, and a lot of people keep on saying they're going to cancel there ADRs for WPC. That's really going a bit overboard IMO. I had planned on what I was going to order too, and that was the crab cake, steak, and fondue, which we all know is now off the menu. But you know what? It's not going to ruin my vacation because of it.

My point was all restaurants change menus, and there's really no point to get all upset about it. This is the second thread that I've seen regarding the changes at WPC, and it's amazing how emotional people get over a couple small changes.

I take that back, this is the third thread I've seen regarding the changes.

 

[jarestel]

I don't follow...

Well... When people start paying the real cost of food (no DDP! gasp!) then we will see the true value of the current restaurant offerings. All I'm saying is that folks will overlook a certain amount of things when they're not paying the full cost for their meal that they wouldn't when it's costing them actual face value.

It just makes sense that if a restaurant is forced (via DDP) to give away meals at less than true value, then they will look for ways to cut corners and reduce costs.

Time will tell.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't buy that the menu is changing because people don't want steak, red meat or chicken or because of "dieting". Not everyone is a vegetarian.

Out of ALL of our local resturants the steak house is the one you can't get into at lunch, dinner or any other time of the day without waiting.

And what special items are they adding in place of what they are taking away? That is my question. Resturants have to offer something for everyone and basic steak and chicken dishes are a MUST, not everyone wants some dish that is "special". If a group of 5 of us go out at least 1 or 2 want a basic steak or chicken meal. Anyone IN THE RESTURANT business knows this.

From what I hear last year because of free dining they removed big items like steak and then put them back on after free dining was over. My guess is that they will put them back on later if history tells us anything. And if they don't, we will find somewhere else that does.

It isn't about dieting or vegetarianism. It is about an overall trend towards greater acceptance/appreciation of more varied and ethnic foods, and a greater demand for vegetables and a variety of sides where once a choice of potato was sufficient.

I wasn't around the DIS for free dining last year, so I don't know if there really were free dining specific menu changes.

As far as what is being added - the same Le Chefs menu that is missing the steak has a new duck entree. From where I sit, that's an improvement that addresses one of the most common complaints about some of the World Showcase restaurants - that the menus are homogenized and Americanized and barely ethnic at all.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

As far as what is being added - the same Le Chefs menu that is missing the steak has a new duck entree. From where I sit, that's an improvement that addresses one of the most common complaints about some of the World Showcase restaurants - that the menus are homogenized and Americanized and barely ethnic at all.

I agree, duck to me is a lot more French then steak.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

So maybe the changes aren't all DDP related but some of you seem to be saying the changes are 100% NOT due to the DDP ... Sorry , but that's lala land.

Someone also expects changes at Jiko due to an Executive Chef change...Did FF change drastically during their numerous changes over the past few years? No. Did CG? No. Did Artist Point? No. The Chef's hands are tied in so many ways and this is why so many great Chef's have abandoned Disney for more creative pastures.

The ubiquitous "menu's change at restaurants" argument is also funny. I haven't seen the changes at Ruths' Chris, Columbia, Cafe D'Antionia or any other fine dining locale we frequent that compare to the changes WDW has made. It's more than 'restaurant biz', lol.

jarestel and illiniowl, I'm enjoying your posts.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

The ubiquitous "menu's change at restaurants" argument is also funny. I haven't seen the changes at Ruths' Chris, Columbia, Cafe D'Antionia or any other fine dining locale we frequent that compare to the changes WDW has made. It's more than 'restaurant biz', lol.

I find your statement funny. I've worked at several different restaurants, some very fine dining, some just local more family restaurants, but at every location I've worked at, the menus have changed. That is "restaurant biz."

 

[illiniowl]

Wrong. The Spoodles menu changed in February.

I hate to break it to you, but the kebabs at Spoodles have been on the menu for quite a few months now.

I made my September ADRs in March, and I'm pretty sure the $29 NY strip with sweet potato fries was on every online Spoodles menu I looked at. Unfortunately those menus were probably just a couple days or weeks outdated when I did my research. But my main point isn't so much that free dining is the culprit, it's that the profit motive is the culprit (certainly goosed along by the perhaps under-forecasted popularity of the DDP, under which some of the higher priced entrees formerly on the menus were only a few dollars short of the daily DDP price). And maybe culprit is the wrong word. I yield to no one in my admiration for capitalism and the profit motive. Profit is not a dirty word to me, but some of you must think that's what people have in mind when they point out that maximizing profit is a primary objective behind nearly every corporate change. I don't know why it's so hard for some of you to admit that Disney's #1 goal is to make a profit. Does it make our WDW vacations any less fun? Of course not.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

With all due respect, you can hardly take the high road on this one, especially when it was you who labeled those who don't have an issue with this perceived problem or don't agree with your "Disney only cares about the bottom line, guest perceptions be damned" POV as "kool-aid drinkers". Who knew that we were all required to sit around in a circle singing "kumbaya", all while patting the OP on the back for his/her opinions?

Ha ha - nice job on the kumbaya line, certainly I have no problem with the occasional zinger to get your point across. Yes, feel free to disagree. But we can do it without labeling people with whom we disagree complainers or emotional or knee-jerkers, not to mention that it would be nice if people didn't pull rationales out of their you-know-whats to put a happy face on Disney's cutting costs, like "people don't want red meat anymore." That one was a load of tripe - coming soon to a WDW restaurant menu, no doubt. (See what I did there?)

I'm not saying don't be upset, I'm saying there's no need for this mentality that it's the DDP's fault, and a lot of people keep on saying they're going to cancel there ADRs for WPC. That's really going a bit overboard IMO. I had planned on what I was going to order too, and that was the crab cake, steak, and fondue, which we all know is now off the menu. But you know what? It's not going to ruin my vacation because of it.

My point was all restaurants change menus, and there's really no point to get all upset about it. This is the second thread that I've seen regarding the changes at WPC, and it's amazing how emotional people get over a couple small changes.

You just can't help yourself, can you? In one breath you say you're not saying don't get upset, and the next you're saying there's no point in getting upset. If someone wants to switch their ADRs to another restaurant, who are you to tell them that is going overboard? And I really think the next person who uses the phrase "I wouldn't let it ruin my vacation" should be sentenced to motion sickness detail on Mission:Space for a day. (My personal favorite, which thankfully has not appeared in this thread (yet), is the "in light of [recent tragedy X], you should just be happy to be alive and able to go to WDW." For that one you should have to spend a month cleaning guano out of the fruit bat house at AK.) That's my whole (OT) point. No one's allowed to express a little disgruntlement around here (much less in a mildly colorful way) without 3 posters offering their oh-so-sincere advice not to let it ruin their vacation. My vacation, and I'm sure that of anyone else who has expressed sentiments similar to mine, will be just fine, thank you very much. We will cope. We will do more than cope - we may even crack a smile at some point, let out a chuckle - heck, we may skip arm-in-arm down Main Street singing "When You Wish Upon a Star."

Enough of the OT stuff. You may resume your regularly scheduled discussion about why the real reason steak au poivre was axed from the CDF menu is because it wasn't French enough, or some such.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I find your view in black and white funny. Of course they change, everything changes eventually but most fine dining restaurants or chef's don't mess with their specialties or stand bys. I'd think with your work experience you would have noticied that.