What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[JennyMominRI]

But surely Occam's Razor points us to the obvious solution, that there is no God?

ford family

Actually,I'm leaning towards Satan planting fossils

kidding,kidding

 

[Amity 3]

I prefer vodka on the rocks,LOL

my soul's set up for all-inclusive beer/wine only. I can't afford the open bar cruise through hell.

 

[phillybeth]

Why do viruses exist?

To make more viruses. To make the host sick, not enough to die, but enough that they are shedding, spreading and spilling body fluids that contain the virus, to infect more hosts and make more viruses.

 

[JennyMominRI]

To make more viruses. To make the host sick, not enough to die, but enough that they are shedding, spreading and spilling body fluids that contain the virus, to infect more hosts and make more viruses.

Jinx

 

[phillybeth]

Jinx

 

[Amity 3]

Actually,I'm leaning towards Satan planting fossils

kidding,kidding

I heard that theory presented at the Field Museum in Chicago, no poop.

an outside tour guide was 'explaining' that the fossil collections were made up of bones like a giant jigsaw puzzle. they just made them fit where they could and the skeletons were not real.

 

[ford family]

my soul's set up for all-inclusive beer/wine only. I can't afford the open bar cruise through hell.

It can only be beer and wine I'm afraid. Spirits are too flammable.

ford family

 

[Amity 3]

Spirits are too flammable.

even a Christian Spirit?

 

[carrie s]

There are secular groups doing plenty of good work in Africa, too.

How about the work that Clinton is doing to help cure AIDS? It's a lot more productive than the church's message of "don't wear condoms" and saves many more lives.

How about Norman Borlaug? He's saved probably more lives than anyone else in history. All with no religious strings attached.

Missionaries helping the disadvantaged are certainly doing good work. But they don't have a monopoly on doing good work, far from it. And missionaries that leaven their help with generous helpings of religious propaganda are not being as helpful as they should be.

Religious groups cannot claim a monopoly on helping others, especially when their doctrines are so often used for evil.

As for "terrorist's will to do evil", HA! Get real. Those terrorists are FAR more religious and devoted to their god than anyone here, and believed that they were doing god's work in fighting against OUR evil. (It didn't hurt their case that since then Americans have been caught murdering, torturing, raping, and falsely imprisoning many "enemies" in a country that had nothing to do with the attack and posed no danger to us), or that over 150,000 innocents have been killed in the crossfire.)

Again, the important points are dodged, as usual. What about natural disasters? Tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, wildfires, etc? If those aren't "punishment" from God, what are they? And I supposed it's god giving us free will that makes so many deer get killed on the roads, that makes babies be born with AIDS or addicted to drugs, or that makes the unhealthiest foods taste the best? And god must HATE sheep, he keeps asking everyone to slaughter them for him!

Yes,there are secular groups doing good work too.There are alot of good people in the world.

I know that terrorists dont think that they are doing evil but they still are doing the things they do because of free will.

Babies may not be born with aids or addicted to drugs because of their own free will but they are because of their parents free will.The choices that any of us make can have an affect on others,in good ways or bad.

 

[Saxsoon]

Note that my views on God are constantly changing as I learn more about Him and the world around me. Right now I am looking at this view and praying about it.

While reading C.S. Lewis and Ralph Waldo Emerson (I believe a Transcendentalist Deist) (was reading for AP English) both seemed to come to same conclusions on Good and Evil. Evil was simply an absence of God or Good. Technically Evil or Bad doesn't exist, it is absence of Good or a corruption of good. It is like cold, it doesn't really exist, it is just a lowering or absence of heat. I am considering if this is what evil truly is.

Satan seperated himself from God. Adam and Eve (if story is to be taken literally or even allegorically) seperated themselves from God by disobeying that command. This world chooses to seperate themselves from God everyday (yes even Christians) and thus lowering the amount of Good. Some believe that Hell is not fire and brimstone but simply an absence of God, yet complete and total. Good is still here in this world but not as much as in the days of Eden (if taken literally), thus leading to Sin and such.

I feel God does set up situations for us to choose, but we are still the ones that choose. I think that maybe what keeps this world from just turning into Hell just a little bit earlier. I believe God even acts through nonbelievers as well, because they feel drawn to do good, which is great. But I think that Jesus was sent to help heat up the soul to boiling point if you catch my drift.

If this post sounds holier than thou or insulting, please don't take it that way. It wasn't meant to be.

 

[Aidensmom]

Note that my views on God are constantly changing as I learn more about Him and the world around me. Right now I am looking at this view and praying about it.

I think that is a wonderful thing! I believe God is just too "big" to have a complete understanding of in this life, and that there is always something to learn. It is great that you keep your mind open to that. Believe me, the DIS is someplace that there will be ideas presented to make you think and learn.

 

[KikiFan]

Ralph Waldo Emerson (I believe a Transcendentalist Deist) (was reading for AP English) both seemed to come to same conclusions on Good and Evil. Evil was simply an absence of God or Good. Technically Evil or Bad doesn't exist, it is absence of Good or a corruption of good. It is like cold, it doesn't really exist, it is just a lowering or absence of heat. I am considering if this is what evil truly is.

That's what I have come to believe. That line of thinking was also part of the origins on Unity. The Fillmores, founders of Unity, were big fans of Emerson and Thoreau. Unity has very little dogma, however the primary one is that all people are inherently good.

I think it's wonderful that your views on God are constantly changing. I can't imagine a static unchanged view of God. I truly believe that as we learn and grow it's inevitable that our relationship and views on God change as well.

Though I've been reading it, I haven't posted much in this thread because I really think, in general, it's pointless to debate religion. (my pov, not aimed at anyone else!) I completely understand and respect other's reasons for not believing in God or any sort of higher power. From a strictly logical pov it doesn't make sense. But faith is just that, belief without proof. But I'm not sure anyone has really proved that it doesn't exist either. Certainly the details can be disproven, things like creation and other Biblical "facts", but underlying it all is a Universal power that I don't think anyone will ever disprove...or prove either.

 

[lovethattink]

Most of my college experience was spent studying biology and chemistry. In all that I learned I never wavered in my faith. I can see the two, science and God going hand in hand. After all, science is never absolute. Throughout history, scientific laws, theories, etc, were constantly being proved wrong or incomplete. I wouldn't be surprised that as technology and knowledge increases, that science as we know it today, will not be the same 50 or even 100 years from now.

As for microbiology, I never had a problem learning about viruses and bactium, or anything else previously "invisible". I believe that God created the visible and the invisible. I'm sure in time there will be many more discoveries of things that are invisible and unknown now.

 

[jimmiej]

You said you fear God. I am just trying to figure out how you can love someone you fear. It sounds like an abusive relationship.

I respect my parents. I don't want to dissapoint them. But I don't fear them. I don't ever remember in all of my years of Sunday school being taught to fear God.

Fear
Dictionary.com –noun 1. a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.
2. a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights.
3. concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety.
4. reverential awe, esp. toward God.

 

[Groucho]

I'm not familiar with what "P&T's BS" stands for. Is that a television program?

Penn & Teller's Bulls**t! is the complete title - shortened for obvious reasons. It's a tremendously entertaining skeptical show that takes on all manner of topics and presents people from both sides of issues and is not shy about making fun of the side they don't agree with. (As the first episode puts it, they can't be sued for calling people names!) I don't always agree with the topic, but I do in most cases.

It's definitely not the kind of show that could be aired on broadcast TV. It's not for the kiddies at all.

For more family-friendly skeptical shows, there's Bill Nye's "The Eyes of Nye" on some PBS stations (unfortunately not the one local to me) or the for-kids "Mystery Hunters" which takes on topics like bigfoot, UFOs, Dracula, etc, and teaches skeptical thinking. There was even a time where Scooby Doo taught skeptical thinking!

Again, the important points are dodged, as usual. What about natural disasters? Tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, wildfires, etc? If those aren't "punishment" from God, what are they? And I supposed it's god giving us free will that makes so many deer get killed on the roads, that makes babies be born with AIDS or addicted to drugs, or that makes the unhealthiest foods taste the best? And god must HATE sheep, he keeps asking everyone to slaughter them for him!

Yes,there are secular groups doing good work too.There are alot of good people in the world.

I know that terrorists dont think that they are doing evil but they still are doing the things they do because of free will.

Babies may not be born with aids or addicted to drugs because of their own free will but they are because of their parents free will.The choices that any of us make can have an affect on others,in good ways or bad.

You only responded to one tiny points in my last paragraph. (And it's "a lot" not "alot" - sorry, pet peeve of mine.)

A couple other things relating to other recent posts in this thread:
Cold is not an absence of heat, and evil is not a lack of good, unless you're also willing to say that heat is the absence of cool and good is the lack of evil.

That's kind of the point. Like the temperature, people are different places on the scale. Even beyond that, every action is different depending on the observer. You might say that you're doing a good thing by picketing an abortion clinic, I say that you're doing evil. I think I'm doing a good thing by encouraging people to move away from religion, you think I'm doing evil. Terrorists believe that they're battling evil. We think we are. See a pattern? Not unlike warm and cold being different to Floridians versus Alaskans.

As for "universal power" - can any believer say that the world would be different if there was not a god? I see no reason whatever to believe in a higher power. There's no evidence whatsoever. So why should I have faith? Even if you do, I see no reason to believe in a Christian god (any of the different versions) versus a Jewish god versus a Muslim god versus a Buddhist god versus Zeus and Athena versus the flying spaghetti monster.

 

[jimmiej]

As for "universal power" - can any believer say that the world would be different if there was not a god? I see no reason whatever to believe in a higher power. There's no evidence whatsoever. So why should I have faith? Even if you do, I see no reason to believe in a Christian god (any of the different versions) versus a Jewish god versus a Muslim god versus a Buddhist god versus Zeus and Athena versus the flying spaghetti monster.

I know this will , but I believe without God, there would be no "goodness." I don't buy the whole notion that man's understanding of "good" evolved over time.

 

[Groucho]

It's very telling that you assume that human nature is "not good" without God - maybe that's just YOUR nature without god.

This is especially suspect considering that so much evil is done in the name of religion.

 

[lovethattink]

It's very telling that you assume that human nature is "not good" without God - maybe that's just YOUR nature without god.

This is especially suspect considering that so much evil is done in the name of religion.

I know this is a very hard concept to grasp. Impossible to grasp if you don't believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God.

 

[Saxsoon]

Groucho, when I say good and evil, I am not talking about human standards, because I believe those to be very skewed. (both sides, religious and nonreligious) I was thinking of a standard (God) and all that falls short of it would fall under that category. He is the parent that sets the ground rules and asks us to follow them. Don't we usually think some of those ground rules aren't that great, and think we are right and they are wrong? I am trying to convey this, but I am falling short on words right now.

 

[phillybeth]

It's very telling that you assume that human nature is "not good" without God - maybe that's just YOUR nature without god.

Yup- chaps my rear that many people think that atheists are amoral, just because they don't believe in the puppetmaster in the sky.