What's best for *this* dog?

[tlbwriter]

I will admit to not reading this whole thread.

If you had read the whole thread, you would understand that this is not the OP's dog, and she does not get to make the decision. The owners are only considering two options, and she was asking which is the best of those two options. Stories about dogs that bit in the past, or lectures about "what I would do" that pretend the OP has any say in this matter, aren't addressing that question.

 

[Agri]

If you had read the whole thread, you would understand that this is not the OP's dog, and she does not get to make the decision. The owners are only considering two options, and she was asking which is the best of those two options. Stories about dogs that bit in the past, or lectures about "what I would do" that pretend the OP has any say in this matter, aren't addressing that question.

And she stated that this was the first time - to her knowledge - that the dog had bitten a non-family member - which means that the dog has likely bitten family members before and no large insurance payout was necessary. The dog probably has a record of more than just this one bite if any of the other people the dog bit told the doctor it was a dog bite. Here even an accidental scratch from a puppy must be recorded so the dog can be checked for rabies (yes, seriously). It might not be to that extent where the OP is located, but I would imagine that the dog has at least one other bite on file besides this one.

 

[goofy4tink]

Coming late to the party, so to speak. And I really wasn't going to post, but...felt I had to.
Dogs are animals. They are not our babies, they are not family members. Without going all Cesear Milan here, they are pack members. And the humans must always be the pack leader..alpha all the way, 100% of the time. And I don't much care if it's a little toy breed of 8 lbs or my 85 lb golden retriever...they are all lesser pack members..period.
Dogs are not allowed to bite their pack leaders...ever. There is never an acceptable reason. Yes, I realize that dogs get arthritic and old and in pain. And that means that changes must be made in the household. You can not just assume that the dog has always been fine with everyone. All it takes is one little one to surprise an old and infirm dog...that dog is going to revert right back to nature and snap and quite possibly bite with severe consequences. Was the dog 'justified'? Probably. But do you think that makes a difference???

I love dogs, I've had dogs my entire life. I currently have an older golden and three cats. That dog was taught at a very early age what is permissable and what isn't. Of course he tried nipping as a puppy. That didn't last long. There was one time he tried guarding something..yeah, not happening in this house buddy!! I realize he is a dog...not my 'furbaby'. I love him to death and hate the thougth of having to make that final, most awful choice for him. But, God willing, I will have to make that choice when the time comes. That is my job. But it is also my job to train him, thoroughly. It is my job to make him safe to be around. He needs to understand the rules and what is expected of him. Is he perfectly behaved?? No, not all the time. He does get excited and bark at people. But when he is told down and stay, that's what he does. He drops.
And it is my job to teach the humans in the family how to behave around the dog. To be perfectly honest, it was easier teaching the dog how to behave than it was teaching the humans!!!

So, what should happen to this poor dog??? Unfortunately, he is going to have to be put down. It was wrong to have him in a situation with a child that had no idea how to behave around him. But, human's come first..always. It would be hugely unfair to give the dog over to a no-kill shelter that is going to keep him in a run, with little human contact. Dogs need that human contact. They need their 'people' and to take him away from his people and then put him in a run is just about the meanest thing you can do. Euthanasia is so much better...well, for the dog that is. For the people, not so good. Been there, done that. Not my favorite thing to do.

You know...my family had a wonderful dog when I was growing up. I grew up and went off and got married. Imagine my surprise the day my mother called mt to tell me that they were putting our dog down. I was stunned..he was young (about 7) and in good health. But, he was out on his run, in our backyard..one of those overhead run thingies that everyone used back in the 60's. The run allowed him to go pretty much where he wanted....and kept hiim away from the property lines...kept him back about 15-20' from the line in fact. Well, it seems that the little boy next door was baiting him and teasing him no end one day. His parents wouldn't let him have a dog so our dog was the next best thing I guess. He would come onto our property, and stand just outside the limit of the run...then tease the dog. I caught him doing this a few times and yellled at him to get out of the yard and leave the dog alone. Now, it wasn't as if we left the dog out there for hours on end...maybe 30 mins or so at a time several times a day. He liked to lie in the sun and watch the chipmunks. Anyway...this one day, my mother was in the basement doing laundry. She had just put the dog out. She came upstairs to see the boy teasing the dog again. She told him to leave immediately. Well, he didn't. And he got a bit too close to the run....the dog chased after him. The dog wasn't trying to bite him. He was trying to catch him so he would stop and play with him...that's all he wanted. Poor dog. Well, he caught the little boy all right. Caught the kids pant leg...ripped the pants. The skin was never touched, never broken. Well, this kid starts screaming as if his face had been ripped off, according to Mom. She ran back outside, the kid is screaming 'the dog bit me, he bit me'. His mother comes out, grabs him and runs into the house. Mom figured that was the end of it. Nope, that woman called my mother and told her that the dog had best be destroyed as he had 'attacked' her son. She said that if the dog wasn't destroyed by the weekend she was going to the police and we were being taken to court.
Now, they had to live next door to these people, it was the 60's and things were different. They wanted to do what was right. So, the dog was destroyed. So very sad. Should the dog have gone after that boy?? Nope. Now, after training several dogs I realize that we did our dog a disservice. We should have trained him not to chase. But we never gave that a thought.

So, yea, I've had to go through putting a dog down for reasons that others might think were fightable. But again..humans come first. Train the dog and the humans and you shouldn't have an issue down the road.

 

[roscoepc1]

Coming late to the party, so to speak. And I really wasn't going to post, but...felt I had to.
Dogs are animals. They are not our babies, they are not family members. Without going all Cesear Milan here, they are pack members. And the humans must always be the pack leader..alpha all the way, 100% of the time. And I don't much care if it's a little toy breed of 8 lbs or my 85 lb golden retriever...they are all lesser pack members..period.
Dogs are not allowed to bite their pack leaders...ever. There is never an acceptable reason. Yes, I realize that dogs get arthritic and old and in pain. And that means that changes must be made in the household. You can not just assume that the dog has always been fine with everyone. All it takes is one little one to surprise an old and infirm dog...that dog is going to revert right back to nature and snap and quite possibly bite with severe consequences. Was the dog 'justified'? Probably. But do you think that makes a difference???

I love dogs, I've had dogs my entire life. I currently have an older golden and three cats. That dog was taught at a very early age what is permissable and what isn't. Of course he tried nipping as a puppy. That didn't last long. There was one time he tried guarding something..yeah, not happening in this house buddy!! I realize he is a dog...not my 'furbaby'. I love him to death and hate the thougth of having to make that final, most awful choice for him. But, God willing, I will have to make that choice when the time comes. That is my job. But it is also my job to train him, thoroughly. It is my job to make him safe to be around. He needs to understand the rules and what is expected of him. Is he perfectly behaved?? No, not all the time. He does get excited and bark at people. But when he is told down and stay, that's what he does. He drops.
And it is my job to teach the humans in the family how to behave around the dog. To be perfectly honest, it was easier teaching the dog how to behave than it was teaching the humans!!!

So, what should happen to this poor dog??? Unfortunately, he is going to have to be put down. It was wrong to have him in a situation with a child that had no idea how to behave around him. But, human's come first..always. It would be hugely unfair to give the dog over to a no-kill shelter that is going to keep him in a run, with little human contact. Dogs need that human contact. They need their 'people' and to take him away from his people and then put him in a run is just about the meanest thing you can do. Euthanasia is so much better...well, for the dog that is. For the people, not so good. Been there, done that. Not my favorite thing to do.

You know...my family had a wonderful dog when I was growing up. I grew up and went off and got married. Imagine my surprise the day my mother called mt to tell me that they were putting our dog down. I was stunned..he was young (about 7) and in good health. But, he was out on his run, in our backyard..one of those overhead run thingies that everyone used back in the 60's. The run allowed him to go pretty much where he wanted....and kept hiim away from the property lines...kept him back about 15-20' from the line in fact. Well, it seems that the little boy next door was baiting him and teasing him no end one day. His parents wouldn't let him have a dog so our dog was the next best thing I guess. He would come onto our property, and stand just outside the limit of the run...then tease the dog. I caught him doing this a few times and yellled at him to get out of the yard and leave the dog alone. Now, it wasn't as if we left the dog out there for hours on end...maybe 30 mins or so at a time several times a day. He liked to lie in the sun and watch the chipmunks. Anyway...this one day, my mother was in the basement doing laundry. She had just put the dog out. She came upstairs to see the boy teasing the dog again. She told him to leave immediately. Well, he didn't. And he got a bit too close to the run....the dog chased after him. The dog wasn't trying to bite him. He was trying to catch him so he would stop and play with him...that's all he wanted. Poor dog. Well, he caught the little boy all right. Caught the kids pant leg...ripped the pants. The skin was never touched, never broken. Well, this kid starts screaming as if his face had been ripped off, according to Mom. She ran back outside, the kid is screaming 'the dog bit me, he bit me'. His mother comes out, grabs him and runs into the house. Mom figured that was the end of it. Nope, that woman called my mother and told her that the dog had best be destroyed as he had 'attacked' her son. She said that if the dog wasn't destroyed by the weekend she was going to the police and we were being taken to court.
Now, they had to live next door to these people, it was the 60's and things were different. They wanted to do what was right. So, the dog was destroyed. So very sad. Should the dog have gone after that boy?? Nope. Now, after training several dogs I realize that we did our dog a disservice. We should have trained him not to chase. But we never gave that a thought.

So, yea, I've had to go through putting a dog down for reasons that others might think were fightable. But again..humans come first. Train the dog and the humans and you shouldn't have an issue down the road.

Amen and hallelujah.

 

[Planogirl]

I got the impression when I read the comment about how euthanasia is easy that the poster meant that the procedure is easy and not that the pain felt by the pet lover would be easy. It was a poor way to say that but I think that some are misreading what was meant.

Putting an animal to sleep no matter what the circumstances are is never easy. I don't care if it's a pet or a strange animal, it's always very sad.

As for the OP's situation, I think that likely that poor dog will be put to sleep. I would hope that someone else can take him in but it doesn't sound very hopeful.

 

[roscoepc1]

As an aside, to those of you who had a pet put down and it WASN'T painless and quick (physically, NOT emotionally for the owner)....your vet screwed up. I hate to say it, but they did. Of course, they aren't going to admit it. They're going to say "Sometimes it happens"....

What happened is, they screwed up dosage. And they should be ashamed.

I've been involved in enough euthenasias that I know that 10000000% for certain. I know that from friends and family members who are Vets and Vet Techs (AHTs). I know that from being the actual person who handled the drugs.

My sister is a Vet Tech, my nephew's fiancee is a Vet Tech, HER father is an awesome Vet whom I've known all my life. My sister has worked for over a dozen vets in her career, ALL of whom were very skilled and compassionate in this area. I have friends who are Vets and Vet Techs. I know fo what I speak.

My condolences to all who have had to go this route. I KNOW it's brutal for the owner.

 

[CathrynRose]

Relax, no one asked you.

What? You replied to me. Very strange.....

OP ~ best of luck to your friends. What a sucky situation.

 

[roscoepc1]

What? You replied to me. Very strange.....

OP ~ best of luck to your friends. What a sucky situation.

I apologize. I was feeling attacked and posted without thinking.

 

[mookie]

As an aside, to those of you who had a pet put down and it WASN'T painless and quick (physically, NOT emotionally for the owner)....your vet screwed up. I hate to say it, but they did. Of course, they aren't going to admit it. They're going to say "Sometimes it happens"....

What happened is, they screwed up dosage. And they should be ashamed.

I've been involved in enough euthenasias that I know that 10000000% for certain. I know that from friends and family members who are Vets and Vet Techs (AHTs). I know that from being the actual person who handled the drugs.

My sister is a Vet Tech, my nephew's fiancee is a Vet Tech, HER father is an awesome Vet whom I've known all my life. My sister has worked for over a dozen vets in her career, ALL of whom were very skilled and compassionate in this area. I have friends who are Vets and Vet Techs. I know fo what I speak.

My condolences to all who have had to go this route. I KNOW it's brutal for the owner.

Bravo for you. Clearly, your view of euthanasia must be the only correct one. My vet must be a moron, even though he is one of the best in the area and has even been called to work out of the country on animals in Africa. Silly me.

All of the experiences of people here that have witnessed it, and have very good vets, as well, must all be wrong. Just because you have never seen it does NOT mean that it doesn't happen...and it's not from a screw up. And while I respect the fact that you probably do know what you are talking about, I do not think the views of other posters and their vets can be discounted, either.

 

[Swalphin]

I will admit to not reading this whole thread. It made me too angry to read over and over again, how "simple" euthanasia is. Just disgusting. I'm sorry, but if this was an indoor dog who lived with her owners for 10 years, I doubt that they find anything simple at all in this situation.

Not one of the offered choices, but I'd keep my dog. I'd tell the insurance company she was gone if I had to, but I'd try to get other insurance first. But I would keep my dog.

For all of you "oooh, if my dog bites, it's getting put down people" do you believe MY dog should have been put down?

My oldest greyhound ( going on 12 ) was adopted from a bottom feeder track at almost 5 years old. She had lead what I can imagine and awful life prior to coming here. Fear made her catatonic. She'd pace for hours, would not enter a room that had humans in it. She'd hide in my dining room and cry and cry and cry. Every part of her becoming a pet had to be learned. For her to be completely normal to immediate family took almost two years. She still won't walk up to any standing person from head on. If she wants to see me and I'm standing, she'll sneak up behind me for petting.

Anyway, my stepson at around 16, came to stay with us. He didn't like me much and he did not like Hannah. She'd bark and growl whenever he entered a room. It wasn't aggression, it was fear of a new human male, something she'd had many bad experiences with in the past. Well, one day while my husband and I were grocery shopping, the stepson put on a "Jason" Halloween mask and chased her around the house. God only knows why.. MY daughter called me on the cell and told me what was happening and I came straight home. Well, a couple days after the incident Hannah bit my stepson. He walked right up to her while she was barking ( which got ten times worse after he chased her ) and she bit his side. I yelled at her and took her away from him. He got reminded again ( you'd think he'd already know that at 16 ) that scaring animals half to death is not even remotely funny. Quite frankly, that bite was his fault.

So, now, probably 4 years later, Hannah is sleeping on her dog bed. Stepson has joined the military, married and gone. He visited for Christmas. Hannah still doesn't trust him, she barked like crazy and then let him pet her a little then ran away. She's fine ( basically stays away from ) any other stranger and hides in the dining room.

Over my dead body would they have put my dog to sleep.

I said the same, it is not simple to sentence a family member to death. I know my dogs and if either of them bit at this point they would have been provoked or had a serious medical issue. Reminds me of the Wizard of OZ when Dorothy ran off with Toto, "she is gentle with gentle peolple" or something like that.

 

[roscoepc1]

Bravo for you. Clearly, your view of euthanasia must be the only correct one. My vet must be a moron, even though he is one of the best in the area and has even been called to work out of the country on animals in Africa. Silly me.

All of the experiences of people here that have witnessed it, and have very good vets, as well, must all be wrong. Just because you have never seen it does NOT mean that it doesn't happen...and it's not from a screw up. And while I respect the fact that you probably do know what you are talking about, I do not think the views of other posters and their vets can be discounted, either.

I wasn't posting my credentials for your applause. I was posting them so people would know I wasn't talking out my hat. I'm not someone who has had one family cat put down, or never done it at all. Even the best vets screw up. They do. It's called "life". I never said MY vet aquaintances or family have never screwed up. They have....but they don't try to hide it behind platitudes. They take responsibibilty and admit it. Nice to meet your open mind and non-judgemental attitude.

 

[mookie]

After my last post I have decided that I don't want to deter this thread any longer, but would rather help the OP, and I apologize for sounding snarky. Many emotions can run high when dealing with this type of situation, and I think that's why this thread can spark such deep debates and conversations. I think many have answered the question, and unfortunately, most agree that putting the dog down is the best for this situation. One other website the OP might want to check out, to make sure they have covered all bases and options for the dog is dogbitelaw. (Can't remember if it's .com or .net) That site helped us in making the decision. Good luck OP, and remember, if you have an opinion on what to do with this dog, you might want to just tell them, no matter how uncomfortable it is. We had many people that were against us when we put our dog down, but we did weigh everyone's thoughts on the subject and it helped. Anything you can do to give that dog a voice to it's owners is a good thing.

 

[mookie]

I wasn't posting my credentials for your applause. I was posting them so people would know I wasn't talking out my hat. I'm not someone who has had one family cat put down, or never done it at all. Even the best vets screw up. They do. It's called "life". I never said MY vet aquaintances or family have never screwed up. They have....but they don't try to hide it behind platitudes. They take responsibibilty and admit it. Nice to meet your open mind and non-judgemental attitude.

I think if you re-read my post you will see that I clearly stated that while I respect the opinions of YOUR animal professionals, I will also take the experiences of mine into consideration, as well. I think that's pretty open minded and non-judgemental. As I stated in my above post, I'm not going to make this a p***ing match, as I don't think it's truly helping ansewer the OP initial question, and if I sounded snarky, I do apologize, as opinions on this subject can run the gamut, as we've clearly seen here.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Haven't finished reading the thread, but I do have to say I respectfully disagree. Quick and Calm are the very LAST words I would use to describe putting down a healthy animal.

For those of you that remember, I was in the exact situation as the owner in the OP. We put our dog down....he was 6. And I know many don't want to hear this, but there was a struggle. Not many people realize that when you put down a healthy dog, that is what can happen. When most people put down animals, they are already old, or sick, or dying, and then, yes, it is easier and quicker for the animal to pass. But for a normally healthy animal, there is the "fight or flight" of the animals system fighting back. I lived it, I saw it, and it killed me. I remember it like it was yesterday.

I'm not speaking of this out of emotion, either...my vet confirmed that was what was happening. Was it still quick? Yes? But to say that it was easy on our dog is far from the truth.

I just want to say I agree with you. Animals often struggle. I've administed parenteral medications long enough myself to know the process in pets is imperfect, and I've had it happen with my own dogs as well. It is heartbreaking to go through, and the thing we remember.

The last dog I put to sleep was old, but strong as an ox and basically relatively healthy. (He'd lost his ability to walk.) Thankfully the day we went we had a vet who scores extra in the compassion department who gave him a sedative first, one he would have if he was undergoing surgery. He went to sleep before my eyes and it was very calm and peaceful - however, he did not die from that. This wonderful vet waited until I was ready, and then administered the barbiturate. Thank god the dog was already "out", because it took three, yes THREE syringes full before his heart stopped.

The moral of the story is that I will never put another dog down - regardless of the circumstances - without giving the sedative first. It made the process less difficult for me, for the dog and for the vet.

Thank you for bringing up a difficult topic.

 

[Planogirl]

I just want to say I agree with you. Animals often struggle. I've administed parenteral medications long enough myself to know the process in pets is imperfect, and I've had it happen with my own dogs as well. It is heartbreaking to go through, and the thing we remember.

The last dog I put to sleep was old, but strong as an ox and basically relatively healthy. (He'd lost his ability to walk.) Thankfully the day we went we had a vet who scores extra in the compassion department who gave him a sedative first, one he would have if he was undergoing surgery. He went to sleep before my eyes and it was very calm and peaceful - however, he did not die from that. This wonderful vet waited until I was ready, and then administered the barbiturate. Thank god the dog was already "out", because it took three, yes THREE syringes full before his heart stopped.

The moral of the story is that I will never put another dog down - regardless of the circumstances - without giving the sedative first. It made the process less difficult for me, for the dog and for the vet.

Thank you for bringing up a difficult topic.

That makes me so sad. I've heard of the look of fear too which always worries me.

We only had to put one pet down and DH took care of it. I was ashamed later but I was so shook up by the whole thing at the time that he just left and had it done. Our other pets have died naturally or have disappeared (2 escape artists) so I don't really know what it's like.

 

[walden]

I just want to say I agree with you. Animals often struggle. I've administed parenteral medications long enough myself to know the process in pets is imperfect, and I've had it happen with my own dogs as well. It is heartbreaking to go through, and the thing we remember.

The last dog I put to sleep was old, but strong as an ox and basically relatively healthy. (He'd lost his ability to walk.) Thankfully the day we went we had a vet who scores extra in the compassion department who gave him a sedative first, one he would have if he was undergoing surgery. He went to sleep before my eyes and it was very calm and peaceful - however, he did not die from that. This wonderful vet waited until I was ready, and then administered the barbiturate. Thank god the dog was already "out", because it took three, yes THREE syringes full before his heart stopped.

The moral of the story is that I will never put another dog down - regardless of the circumstances - without giving the sedative first. It made the process less difficult for me, for the dog and for the vet.and terminal

Thank you for bringing up a difficult topic.

Well thank you for this!

I have to say that we have had (reluctantly) to put 3 dogs to sleep. For the carefully considered best. Horribly sad, dementia or terminal conditions. And, believe me, we weighed all the options. And we grieved.

In all cases a sedative was administered in advance. I must just have wonderful vets because I had no idea that any vet did this without a sedative.

It should be calm and peaceful-- however many barbiturate injections it took to stop the heart.

If it is not -- some-one messed up on the sedative. Just my opinion.

 

[amg35]

I just want to say I agree with you. Animals often struggle. I've administed parenteral medications long enough myself to know the process in pets is imperfect, and I've had it happen with my own dogs as well. It is heartbreaking to go through, and the thing we remember.

The last dog I put to sleep was old, but strong as an ox and basically relatively healthy. (He'd lost his ability to walk.) Thankfully the day we went we had a vet who scores extra in the compassion department who gave him a sedative first, one he would have if he was undergoing surgery. He went to sleep before my eyes and it was very calm and peaceful - however, he did not die from that. This wonderful vet waited until I was ready, and then administered the barbiturate. Thank god the dog was already "out", because it took three, yes THREE syringes full before his heart stopped.

The moral of the story is that I will never put another dog down - regardless of the circumstances - without giving the sedative first. It made the process less difficult for me, for the dog and for the vet.

Thank you for bringing up a difficult topic.

I watched my 12 year old little girl choke and vomit all over herself and her tongue rolled all the way out in front of us as she was put to sleep in the vets office. It haunts me to this day.

Not saying this was the vet's fault, they were very caring and sympathetic through all of this and it needed to be done, but it was horrific. They said she didn't know it was happening but I couldn't stand it, I was crying like crazy and it was just awful. Everyone else has these peaceful stories, but not mine. I'm crying as I type this. I feel so guilty, like I let her down at the moment she needed me most.

I'm not sure I can be in the room again when it needs to be (unfortunately) done for my other guys.

 

[JessicaR]

Well thank you for this!

I have to say that we have had (reluctantly) to put 3 dogs to sleep. For the carefully considered best. Horribly sad, dementia or terminal conditions. And, believe me, we weighed all the options. And we grieved.

In all cases a sedative was administered in advance. I must just have wonderful vets because I had no idea that any vet did this without a sedative.

It should be calm and peaceful-- however many barbiturate injections it took to stop the heart.

If it is not -- some-one messed up on the sedative. Just my opinion.

I truly believe this is key. Some vets do one step administration and others do two. The sedative first is a MUST.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Prior to that experience, we'd never had the benefit of having a sedative before. I don't think it's routine, but it probably depends on the vet. All I know is that now I will ask for one if it's not offered.

Can any of the people who work in veterinary care answer this?

 

[C.Ann]

If it were my dog, I would have it put down.. There would be no "quality" of life in the shelter you mentioned, so as far as I'm concerned, the kinder thing to do would be to have the dog put to sleep..