What would you do?

[FlightlessDuck]

I'd have confronted him after day 2.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Ok …
You have been asked to be second in command for a big industry multi day event. The invite came from the first in command who is a well known and liked industry professional. It’s a volunteer position but a career builder so you say yes. You spend a year in team zoom meetings to prepare for the event.

Event finally starts. On day one First in Command touches your rear end when you leave the meeting room. You say to yourself “I’m sure that was meant to be a hand on the back” and brush it off.

Second day First in Command pats you on the rear end with his clipboard as you go to leave the room. This time you find it weird and it makes you uncomfortable and frankly a little ticked off since you are in a professional environment and this just isn’t workplace behaviour.

Day three.. get up to leave, first in command pats you on the butt with an open hand as you go to leave. It makes you feel gross. You’ve been watching and as far as you know he doesn’t do it to others. Just you. You wonder if you’re making a big deal out of nothing. You want to stay “knock it off” but are worried about the repercussions.

Context.. both adult males. Butt patter 20 years older and in charge of other person.

Would like to hear everyone’s thoughts. This is a friend and I wanted to ask what others would think / feel / do / not do ( with their permission).

You have to tell the person to stop before going to HR. Usually right as it's happening. Then, if it continues, you go to HR with the discussion of the events, the request to cease, and the continuation of them despite the request. Since the 1st has never been told to stop, he probably thinks it's okay at this point.

 

[sam_gordon]

You have to tell the person to stop before going to HR. Usually right as it's happening. Then, if it continues, you go to HR with the discussion of the events, the request to cease, and the continuation of them despite the request. Since the 1st has never been told to stop, he probably thinks it's okay at this point.

Actually I don't think there's anything that says you HAVE to tell the person to stop before going to HR. I personally think it's the best thing to do (except in a handful of situations), but I doubt a company will say you HAVE to do it.

 

[pigletto]

Thank you everyone for you thoughts. One thing he and I discussed is that for a woman this situation would be so cut and dry and absolutely would constitute harassment and it would be very clear.

But for a man… well it should be exactly the same but my friend feels weird about it. He also said that general air of the group is very old boys club , sexist jokes , inappropriate comments about women etc and the whole thing feels wrong.

He told me he’s writing a letter and stepping down and listing the reasons why and leaving it there. He’s focusing on the overall atmosphere being sexist and unprofessional and doesn’t want to be a part of that , though he is including a line about it never being ok to touch another colleague inappropriately.

You may be surprised or completely unsurprised to know this is a pretty high profile government event ( at the local level) . So there’s just no way that this guy doesn’t know by now what he can and can’t do. He’s probably sat through 100 training programs on this stuff.

Friend is just going to leave it there. He just wants it known why he left.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Thank you everyone for you thoughts. One thing he and I discussed is that for a woman this situation would be so cut and dry and absolutely would constitute harassment and it would be very clear.

But for a man… well it should be exactly the same but my friend feels weird about it. He also said that general air of the group is very old boys club , sexist jokes , inappropriate comments about women etc and the whole thing feels wrong.

He told me he’s writing a letter and stepping down and listing the reasons why and leaving it there. He’s focusing on the overall atmosphere being sexist and unprofessional and doesn’t want to be a part of that , though he is including a line about it never being ok to touch another colleague inappropriately.

You may be surprised or completely unsurprised to know this is a pretty high profile government event ( at the local level) . So there’s just no way that this guy doesn’t know by now what he can and can’t do. He’s probably sat through 100 training programs on this stuff.

Friend is just going to leave it there. He just wants it known why he left.

Before he steps down, I would encourage him to have his follow on job lined up. It will be much harder to get if he steps down without it b/c he's unlikely to get positive references from this job after that letter.

 

[Skip Coffee for Rope Drop]

Ok …
You have been asked to be second in command for a big industry multi day event. The invite came from the first in command who is a well known and liked industry professional. It’s a volunteer position but a career builder so you say yes. You spend a year in team zoom meetings to prepare for the event.

Event finally starts. On day one First in Command touches your rear end when you leave the meeting room. You say to yourself “I’m sure that was meant to be a hand on the back” and brush it off.

Second day First in Command pats you on the rear end with his clipboard as you go to leave the room. This time you find it weird and it makes you uncomfortable and frankly a little ticked off since you are in a professional environment and this just isn’t workplace behaviour.

Day three.. get up to leave, first in command pats you on the butt with an open hand as you go to leave. It makes you feel gross. You’ve been watching and as far as you know he doesn’t do it to others. Just you. You wonder if you’re making a big deal out of nothing. You want to stay “knock it off” but are worried about the repercussions.

Context.. both adult males. Butt patter 20 years older and in charge of other person.

Would like to hear everyone’s thoughts. This is a friend and I wanted to ask what others would think / feel / do / not do ( with their permission).

Context doesn't matter. A person has a right to chose who touches one's rear. The First in Command is a scumbag and needs to be taught a lesson. First he needs to have a few teeth knocked out but unfortunately HR is the only route to take and he needs to be aware of this. I know that this is a challenge but this may have happened before and if not, he is blazing a trail for the next victim. Gotta get his stuff on record in front of a camera so that it appears that it was reported by security not the volunteer. Also, I hope a lawyer is on Disboards that can give the best advice.

 

[pigletto]

Before he steps down, I would encourage him to have his follow on job lined up. It will be much harder to get if he steps down without it b/c he's unlikely to get positive references from this job after that letter.

It’s a volunteer position. Friend is well regarded in his job. The two are in the same industry but not the same work place thankfully.

 

[Mysterian]

The older guy definitely sounds like a narcissist grooming your friend. It seems as thought each time he makes contact he's bolder and bolder. I'll bet you if the younger guy spoke up to him directly, the older guy would become a threatening bully, or gaslight the guy to convince him he's delusional.

I wouldn't be surprised if the older guy's done this to some others, and I'm curious if someone has gone to HR about him in the past. If so, there's a record, which adds credibility to the younger guy's claims, should he speak with HR.

If younger guy is already planning to leave, he's got nothing to lose by going to HR and seeing how far he can go. Not to mention, his own claims/record can than assist the next person this happens to. Eventually this older guy needs to realize that even people in positions of power are not above the rules of the company policy.

 

[TwoMisfits]

It’s a volunteer position. Friend is well regarded in his job. The two are in the same industry but not the same work place thankfully.

Well, if it's volunteer, that's an easy thing to leave and never look back.

 

[jrmasm]

I think something should be said to the person before escalating it to higher ups. Not saying it’s ok, but guys are different. A good job and pat on the back side isn’t out of the norm for guys (albeit a professional setting is different). If it’s unwanted a quick, firm, but nice please don’t do that I find it inappropriate/offensive/etc would suffice. Then if it continues I would escalate it.

It’s 2022, everyone, including guys, know thats inappropriate behavior.

 

[ronandannette]

The older guy definitely sounds like a narcissist grooming your friend. It seems as thought each time he makes contact he's bolder and bolder. I'll bet you if the younger guy spoke up to him directly, the older guy would become a threatening bully, or gaslight the guy to convince him he's delusional.

I wouldn't be surprised if the older guy's done this to some others, and I'm curious if someone has gone to HR about him in the past. If so, there's a record, which adds credibility to the younger guy's claims, should he speak with HR.

If younger guy is already planning to leave, he's got nothing to lose by going to HR and seeing how far he can go. Not to mention, his own claims/record can than assist the next person this happens to. Eventually this older guy needs to realize that even people in positions of power are not above the rules of the company policy.

Apparently this isn't actually a work project being done by a singular company/organization but instead is a volunteer collaboration and it's unlikely there even is an HR department. The OP has clarified the two men don't work together; they are just industry colleagues and neither answers to the other. Resigning from the project seems like a good play to me and in the letter (which I'd make sure went to the organizing board of the event as well as the organization it's representing, if there is one), I'd mention this person's conduct specifically.

 

[GreatLakes]

I would say something directly to the guy the first time it happened to make sure he knew it was unwanted and would result in a formal complaint the next time it was done. If it happened a second time I'd involve HR and if I didn't feel they were taking it seriously I'd be very vocal about it.

 

[Mysterian]

Apparently this isn't actually a work project being done by a singular company/organization but instead is a volunteer collaboration and it's unlikely there even is an HR department. The OP has clarified the two men don't work together; they are just industry colleagues and neither answers to the other. Resigning from the project seems like a good play to me and in the letter (which I'd make sure went to the organizing board of the event as well as the organization it's representing, if there is one), I'd mention this person's conduct specifically.

Even if it's a voluntary gig, it's still a professional collaboration. You're saying it's unlikely there is even an HR department, but to send the letter to the organizing board and the organization. Ok, why not report him to both before even considering having to leave? This guy shouldn't be allowed to behave like this and someone needs to know about it.

Even if this were just an industry convention lasting one day, I would report misconduct to the person's superiors, HR or no. Even if younger guy feels he loses nothing by just walking away, a record of this behavior has to be built in order to get Mervis the Pervis closer to early retirement.