What would you do?

[mrsltg]

Hi All-

Here's a question that I'm not sure belongs on the debate board, but I couldn't figure out where to put!

My daughter, Dierdre, is just shy of 2 and a half. She goes to a local daycare center while DH and I are at work. She's been in this center since she was 8 months, so it's been close to two years. We are very happy with the care provided at the center, and Dierdre looks forward to going each day. She's been "best friends" with a little girl named Jessica who was born the day after her, so all things being equal, they're on the same developmental level.

Yesterday I arrived at the daycare at my usual time to pick Dierdre up. When I walked into the class, she was sitting at a table sobbing (this is VERY unlike my daughter). As I approached her, her teacher came up to me very upset. She told me that Dierdre had been bitten by Jessica and that the bite was fairly bad. Dierdre came to me, and opened her left hand which was covered in blood. As I picked her up, she turned her head and I noticed three 3-4" scratches (one bleeding) on her neck. The teacher hadn't noticed this because she had been concerned with the bite on Dierdre's hand. We washed off her hand, and the wound from the bite was on her pointer finger and a good bit of the pad of her finger was gone (chomp chomp!). There was another tooth mark that went pretty deep in the center of the finger. All of this was bleeding. It also is causing her a lot of pain and she won't even use her left hand now.

Now, last week when I picked Dierdre up, Jessica had bitten her arm and broke the skin (mildly) above Dierdre's elbow. The area was badly bruised, and the teeth marks were significant. I took Dierdre to the doctor and I was told to just watch the bite carefully for signs of infection. No infection came about (thank goodness!).

After all of this happened yesterday, I took Dierdre to the office to discuss the issue with the director of the center. She told me that she will speak with Jessica's parents today and talk to me again. She also said that she would speak with the teachers and try to determine what is causing this behavior so that they can be pre-emptive. Ok.

Here's my question... After much wrangling with my thoughts last night, I spoke with Dierdre this morning. I told her I didn't want her to play with Jessica anymore. I also told her (let me cower in shame here) that if she thought Jessica was about to bite, scratch or hit (oh yeah, Jessica also hit Dierdre in the face), I wanted Dierdre to push Jessica away as hard as she could and go and get the teacher. Is this wrong? I understand completely that this little girl is 2, and is not in control of her emotions. However, there is the "Mommy" part of me that wants to protect my child and make sure that no one is hurting her. I am also wanting an exact plan from the daycare caenter as to how they are going to handle this from now on. I don't want Dierdre separated from her class in anyway, because she didn't do anything wrong. There is a "3 strikes" rule at the daycare which, if implemented, would mean Jessica was booted from the school. Part of me wants this, but a bigger part understands how incredibly difficult this would be for her parents and herself.

Thoughts? Opinions??? Thanks!

Erin

 

[Teejay32]

Poor little thing, I hope she's ok. I wouldn't do anything. The kid is a liability, not just to your DD but to others too until she unlearns the biting/scratching. I would say the center will be extremely motivated to curb the problem and so will Jessica's parents. (My kids have never been in daycare but I worked in one years ago.)

 

[olena]

Oh how awful for both of you...*HUGS* I hope her hand feels better.

 

[jfulcer]

While I think it's good advice to your DD as to how to try to deal with it, it's up to the center to provide a caring, safe environment for your DD to be in.

Regardless of the circumstances, if this other little girl is biting hard enough to draw blood, she should at the minimum be suspended from the center for a few days. If it were my daughter getting 'bit' repeatedly I would insist the other child be taken from the same class, or be kicked out permanantly.

I would think a few days at home with mom or dad being upset they have to take time off because she is biting would be enough to help this little girl understand it's not acceptable behaviour. Whatever the parents are doing now is obviously not enough.

 

[grinningghost]

Poor kid. My DD was in daycare for several years and we had our share of "daycare problems". It happens, but if you have a good center, they will usually work hard to correct things. I think you're doing all the right things. Sure, you don't want your DD to be violent, but I don't think pushing the girl away and getting a teacher is wrong. She needs to defend herself somehow. Make sure you keep on the director until you see results. It worked with us. Good luck.

 

[FOJMO]

I'm so very sorry for what's happening to Diedre. I'm surprised she isn't giving you a hard time about going back there!

Let me say that my DD (now17) was a "biter" for a while when she was in daycare as a toddler. There were several other "biters" and what the daycare did was to segregate the "biters" so that they were all together. When the "biters" realized that they were relegated to playing with each other, the biting stopped.

After some days of this segregation (of which we, the "biters" parents, were notified), they were eased back into the rest of the daycare.

This biting does not mean these kids are bad (my DD was a good kid), and we certainly don't know where this behavior came from, but they, as our DD did, have to learn that it is unacceptable and dangerous to others.

Good luck!

 

[Miss Jasmine]

This makes me think that Jessica may be seeing abusive situations at home.

 

[kejoda]

Kids do go through biting stages. Not good but normal. The parents and teachers will need to work with her and keep an eye on her to help her learn there are other ways. What is not a good idea and I cannot stress this enough is for you to teach your dd to push her friend. What she needs to do to is go get a teacher and let the teacher deal with it. Or she could even yell NO STOP and that should get attention. I speak from experience our 5 year old was a biter but only with our 3 year old. Our younger son Danny quickly learned when it was about to happen and came and got us. John has learned not to bite and they are now best friends. Still fight like crazy but is now more managable. I would also get your dd to the doc again to check the bite out. Make sure the center is doing something about this and if you can call during the day to make sure it isn't happening. Good luck with this. Let us know whats going on.

 

[FOJMO]

Originally posted by Miss Jasmine
This makes me think that Jessica may be seeing abusive situations at home.

Although biting is not a common occurrence, it is not a rarity, and it also does not necessarily stem from an abusive situation at home.

Our DD (17) was a "biter" for a period of time and, let me assure you, she grew up in a very loving home with no abuse or violence whatsoever. We were as shocked about her biting as anyone would be.

My post above mentions how her daycare handled it.

 

[kejoda]

I doubt its abuse, if it was the majority of parents would be in big trouble. What she is dealing with is a child that hasn't learn to handle her emotions and is confused by them. Right now she thinks this is a good way to deal with it. Abuse would be for the center and parents involved to do nothing about it. Its not a easy problem it just takes time to learn acceptable ways to deal with frustration.

 

[piratesmate]

First, I'm so sorry your daughter is having this problem & I hope her hand feels better today!

Re: your question about what to tell her . . . . I would be hesitant to tell a 2yo to push away the other girl. First, after 2 such events she may be afraid & push her without real provocation. At 2, I'm not sure there will be much (if any) warning before the "biter" bites. (At least there wasn't with DS's friends.) Second, pushing is also frowned upon in most day care centers. I understand your desire to protect your daughter. Maybe you could tell her to just run to the teacher if she thinks there's a problem.

I have to say that the extent of the wound "surprises" me. Most toddler bites that I've seen have been more like the 1st one you described . . . . usually with a WIDE open mouth & much frustration & usually aimed at a larger body part than a finger - like a cheek or arm. I would be concerned that there may be more anger here than is typical with toddlers.

If you have faith in the staff at the center, I would also think that they'll handle this - quickly!

Deb

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I didn't base that on the biting alone. She also mentioned hitting and scratching.

 

[mrsltg]

First of all, thanks to everyone! I am so beside myself over the whole situation that's it's unbelievable. I'm at work, and I am far from concentrating on what I should be concentrating on... I mean really, who needs bankruptcy reform anyway?

This makes me think that Jessica may be seeing abusive situations at home.

It's funny, Miss Jasmine, that you say that. I immediately called my Mom last night (an ER nurse with about 35yrs experience!) as I always do whenever something is wrong with any of us including the pets! She was obviously concerned about the most perfect little girl in the world (Dierdre is an only grandchild ), but even more concerned about where this was coming from in the other child. After all the years on her job, she looks for abuse as a matter of course. She didn't suggest that there was abuse in Jessica's home, just that maybe something traumatic was going on there. Maybe a change in work schedules for the parents, a death in the family, an older sibling picking on her more than usual. Who knows? All I can say is that I felt about the size of an ant afterward thinking about this poor kid and what may be going on her little world. I truly hope that she is just being aggressive.

I'd also like to point out here that Jessica is not particularly verbal, and is kind of small for her age. Maybe she's feeling frustrated or intimadated? Normally, she and Dierdre are inseperable. Maybe it's growing pains as they mature? I don't know. I do know thought that I definitely want Jessica separated from Dierdre (and, the rest of the kids) until this is handled.

Again, thanks for the replies. I really appreciate it.

Erin

 

[mrsltg]

I have to say that the extent of the wound "surprises" me

The bite is BAD. It couldn't be stithed because there is so much skin missing from the pad of her finger that there was nothing to sew shut. Just lots of neosporin, bandaids, and tylenol for the pain.

This, in particular, bothers me. And not to be vain, but I am concerned that Jessica could decide to bite Dierdre's face or someplace that a scar would be really bad. This is me at wits end!

Erin

 

[Lynn CC]

Sounds like Jessica needs constant supervision around other children. Often when a child is biting they are not being supervised or kept busy enough with "constructive work", too much free time on her hands to think about how she is going to act out. I would be worried, biting is no joke. I'm sure the center knows how to handle this, but I would let them know that you are not taking the matter lightly, since this is the second time.
{HUGS} to you and your daughter.

 

[debster812]

Oh, this is such a tough one.

My DS was 'targeted' by a scratcher in his first center (which we loved) and by a biter in Center #2 (which we also love)

These are both fairly normal (normal, not commonplace) behaviors for this age group. Especially the biting. It has a lot to do with some kids being more oral than others, and it is a way of expression.

The biter in our case had lots of other issues. CP, developmental delays. I thought that DS's teachers handled it beautifully. They told the children that if this child started to come to them like he was going to bite, they were to push him away, yell NO, and get a teacher. They were NOT however to hurt him back, or hurt his feelings. Now this was in the 3.5-4.5 year old environment, so they may have been a little more emotionally ready to act this way.

I think time outs for the biters in school is also a good deterrent.

Good Luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

[RitaZ.]

Check out parentsoup.com for some ideas on how to handle biting and why children do it.

http://www.parentsoup.com/experts/earlyed/qas/0,,190123_150255,00.html

Also,

http://www.allaboutmoms.com/biters.htm

My children were not biters or bitten by another child, so I have no first-hand experience. However, I know two children that were kicked out of preschools because of biting other children.

There are so many things that can cause children to bite, like frustration, limited verbal ability, to get attention, etc. That doesn't mean that it's acceptable for children to bite, it isn't and has to be stopped. When a child bites, it doesn't automatically mean that he or she is being abused at home. The little girl's parents may be doing their part at home in trying to stop their DD from biting, but it doesn't mean that a 2 year old has the self-control to stop herself from doing it.

Good luck with getting this resolved! I hope your DD's hand heals quickly and definitely get it check out by her ped.

 

[gonga]

I would call a lawyer immediately! That situation is out of control, it is someone's responsibility (either Jessicas parents or the school) to insure the safety of your child, that includes safety from other children. Something has to be done not only to protect your child but the other children as well. That incident is above and beyond the "norm".

I hope your little girl is feeling better soon.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Erin,
Your mom brought up a bunch of other good points.

{{{HUGS}}} to you and your DD. I felt like crying when you described how she was sobbing and all her wounds.

And I am sorry if I bothered anyone with my abuse comment. I was just trying to think of why Jessica was acting out. I KNOW that biting and scratching can be normal at that age. The severity of it and the hitting too, made me think something else was up.

No I don't think you all abused your kids cuz they bite.

Sorry sometimes I look at things from different angles. I am sure Erin knows why. It comes with spouses having certain occupations.

 

[MerryPoppins]

I'm so sorry. Hope your daughter's finger is better soon.

I used to work in preschool/day care. When I worked with toddlers and two year olds, we did have some problems with biting each year. Sometimes it is frustration or anger, sometimes it is a health issue (like an ear infection that is going untreated), sometimes it just seems a spur of the moment whim, sometimes the child is teething and feels a need to bite something.

My son and his little friend even bit each other a few times and they were close as could be. My son said his friend just "kissed with his teeth". I told him they both needed to stop kissing that way because he knew how much it hurt. Eventually it ended.

I don't think I ever saw a bite as bad as you describe. The center should be working with you. Bites like that can be dangerous. Having said that, I would discourage pushing. Your daughter could cause the biter to fall and hit her head or something, especially if she is small. I think yelling and getting the teacher is a much better plan. She probably won't have warning that the bite is coming anyway. It usually happens really fast.

Good luck finding a plan that works. The good news is that in my experience it is usually a phase that passes. Hopefully, things will be better soon.