What to look for in Dog Breeder?

[janette]

I'm looking to get a Bichon Frise puppy for my 11yo DD.

What should I be asking the breeders I talk to? I've only called one so far and they only have 2 dogs so the puppies are part of the household. That seems best but what else should I be asking?

Thanks for your help.

 

[A kid at heart]

How many times they have bred the mom already.(how many litters has she had) health history of the parents. Check out the living conditions of where the dogs are being bred.
I know there is other stuff, but I'm not sure.

 

[Blondie]

A kid at heart has already listed some good ones.

Any good reputable caring breeder will want to interview you as well!

When we got our last Weimarner, we had to fill out a 4 page interview sheet, on it asked for our Vet's phone number, have we ever owned that breed before, how many kids lived in the house, where and what we plan on doing with the dog when we go out, or take a vacation, and other similar questions. She also told us that she WOULD NOT sell us one of her dogs if we didn't have a fenced in back yard (which we did--so it was no problem.)

She told us that if for some reason having a new puppy of hers didn't work out, that she would buy back our dog at the full price.

 

[Kermit]

I have inlaws who breed puppies. Actually, it's DH's step-grandmother, so she's not really related, but I've spent some time at her house where she breeds them. (She's actually located a little south of Ft Worth, but I don't think she has that breed.)

I'd want to know about how many puppies they usually sell in a month. They can obviously provide better care for the dogs if there aren't too many. I'd also want to see their living conditions if possible. This woman doesn't actually sell her dogs at her house; my MIL takes care of that part at her own house for her. But it's not because they don't want people to see the kennels--it's because she lives out in the boonies on the outskirts of Blum and no one wants to drive way out there. She keeps the adult dogs in outdoor kennels, but she brings them inside to have their puppies and then when the puppies are small. I think that's probably much better than just having the tiny babies outside with nothing more than a covering over their heads.

You should probably find out how many breeds they generally have. They'll obviously know more about each of the breeds if they only handle a few types. This woman I'm talking about knows all kinds of things about the dogs she breeds. For example, she won't sell one of the breeds (I think it's Yorkies) to families with young kids because the dogs tend to be hypoglycemic and young children make them get too hyper and they faint. She makes sure that the families that do buy them have honey in their houses all the time in case the dogs start acting funny. That's not the kind of information you get from a lot of breeders who just don't care as much.

For what it's worth, visiting that puppy farm always makes me sad. I know that she provides the best possible care you can when there are that many dogs, but it's not the kind of care that a family with one set of indoor family dogs would provide their puppies. DH and I only get dogs from the Humane Society now. It's not something I feel strongly enough about to make me try to prevent people from buying pure bread dogs from breaders, but I thought that I should go ahead and say it.

 

[janette]

Kermit, I have always gotten puppies from rescue or the pound before. My youngest is allergic to dogs so we are pretty limited in breeds. I talked to one rescue group and they won't let us adopt a dog because we have other dogs that stay outside and because my DD is allergic. I guess they don't trust people to be smart enough to know that we can't let a small indoor pet outside where the other dogs might hurt her. I'm not sure I'd even let this dog in the yard at all, especially not unattended maybe after it grows up lots. We have plenty of yard that isn't fenced for her to walk & play.

Also it is hard to find a dog that either is a bichon or poodle mix that would keep the shedding limited. I'm thinking it would probably be safer to go with the pure-breed to make sure we are limiting any problems due to allergy.

 

[fklhou]

We are breeding some beardies soon and are also trying to breed a pettite bassett griffon vedeen and so are begging to look at this end of the business. An established breeder will have a track record and can tell you how many dogs out of each letter finished, i.e. earned the 15 points at AKC trials to become an AKC champion. You may be interested in "pet" quality but it is still important to have a feel as to how well the "show" quality dogs put out by that breeder have done. There is also a way to get for a fee the breeding history on any AKC dog. If you are serious, this is away to look at past litters and get a feel for how well the breeder is doing.

Many breeders will agree to help you finish a dog if you buy a "show" wuality dog. Often the oontract for a show quality dog will come with a guarantee that the dog will finish and the breeder will volunteer to show the dog at shows to get the points to finish the dog. One of our "show" quality beardies has not yet finished but she was the top herding beardie in the country last year and so we are not too concerned.

My DW is more into the business than I am and I will see if she will ad to this thread.

 

[TerriP]

http://www.akc.org/index.cfm

The above link will take you to the AKC homepage. There, you can find both puppy buying information and breeder referrals. Also, consider taking the time (if you haven't already) to read over the breed specifics for the Bichon. Once you know the "ins and outs" of the breed, you can get a better feel for what the breeder knows.

This is a VERY sore subject for me, so I'm limiting what I say to my top three pieces of advice: The breeder should NOT breed more than two types of dog, preferably only one ~ if you start seeing several breeds at one kennel, think long and hard about how much time and devotion this person is giving to the dogs that will create your puppy. Find out not only how many litters the kennel produces each year, but how many times the particular female and male you'll use have been bred, how old SHE is, and the quality of pups they've produced before (the AKC site will explain why this is important). Lastly, go over the contract and health guarantees with a fine tooth comb ~ the major problems associated with Bichons should be listed and discussed IN the contract; unless you're buying quality breeding stock it should be a spay/neuter contract; in the event you can not keep the dog at ANY time they should buy it back (for the life of the dog); and they should have numerous questions and obligations for you as well.

Good luck with your puppy. Bichons are just the cutest little sweeties. I'd also recommend searching for rescue groups and shelters that can offer pure bred Bichons...you'd be surprised what you'll find at your local shelter. And there is nothing like saving the life of a dog that would have died without you...

 

[cherylp3]

I know many dog breeders, a good dog breeder will "interview" you just as you "interview" them.

What are their breeding practices?
Are you expected to show the dog ?
(If not Is there a spay/neuter in the contract)

Are they a member of an all breed kennel club or bischon frise club?

For a more detailed faq visit
http://www.bichon.org/puppy.htm

I wish you luck,

Cheryl

 

[Mish19]

Everyone has given wonderful advice on what to look for. I adopted a Ragdoll cat and some of the factors in looking for a breeder can go for dogs. Definitely see what kind of health guarantee the breeder is giving. The breeder should be happy to answer your questions before and after you have adopted your puppy. Don't be intimidated by the breeder interviewing you, hopefully your puppy will come from a breeder who treats breeding as more than a business and will be concerned where "their baby" is going. Find a website about Bichon's, lots of places have message boards (like the DIS) that can honestly give good recommendations. Have fun!

 

[DocRafiki]

I'd want to know about how many puppies they usually sell in a month

If they have more than two litters a year, they're a PUPPY MILL, not a reputable breeder.

If they breed more than one breed, they're a PUPPY MILL.

If they call it a "business," it's a PUPPY MILL.

Some of the things I'm reading here are really making me sad.

The AKC is not a reputable organization. Do you know people have registered dead animals and even CATS as pure breeds in the AKC? AKC certificates mean nothing.

If you MUST support a business which profits from contributing to the overpopulation of dogs and therefore the senseless murder of MILLIONS of animals in this country each year (gee, can you tell I don't recommend it), then ask the rescue group for breeders. I'm sure there are some whacked rescue groups out there, but I trust them more than anyone else as far as actually caring for the well-being of the breed. They also will know all the bad breeders since they will wind up rescuing a lot of their animals. And they might even have a pure-bred puppy for you (you know, the ones that are given up because they have a cold, which is then cured by the rescue group).

www.petfinder.com

 

[DocRafiki]

I didn't find much at the petfinder site... lots of adults needing homes but only one youngster. But I did find this answer to your question on a Bichon site. It was linked from a Texas Bichon rescue site.

http://www.bichonfrise.org/faq.html#quality

 

[janette]

Thanks DocRafiki! That's a great site. I'm going to take my DD to the library also so she can pick up some basic puppy care books. There are several places that offer classes and we'll do that too.

I've checked out the petfinder site, it is great even our local shelters are on there but there are very few Bichon's needing homes. The one adoption place we talked to did have a good point about allergies and I don't want to get a dog I'm not sure we could keep. With most mixed breeds even if we are careful, there might be a chance my younger DD couldn't tolerate it.

Whatever dog we get will altered as soon as the vet says it's okay. Saw a very sad message on our local shelter site, said 2 dogs and their pups and been brought in because the owners were tired of them having litters and didn't believe they should be altered. The puppies have a chance at adoption but the adults don't get much of one.

edited to add: The petfinder.org site also has a place you can put in what your looking for and they will email you when a new dog is added to the search. I'm on the list for Bichons & Poodles so something might come up there.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

this is a very good thread.
I got our first dog, a german shepherd, from a puppy mill when I was young and stupid. He lived a little over 2 years, when I had to put him down because he jumped through a window screen to take a chunk out of the paper boy. He loved us, but started to absolutely hate children. I had him obedience trained and everything. My parents had two shepherds when I was growing up and both were wonderful dogs, but the second one was from a less reputable breeder and had bad hips. I think the best place to get them now is Germany!
We had two mutts in the meantime, and I loved them both. The dog we have now, a golden retriever, was purchased from a BREEDER, not a mill. The woman keeps her dogs in the house and gladly showed them to us. She asked me a bunch of questions. We had to agree to neuter him (no problem there). She showed me the hip, eye, heart ratings going back 3 or 4 generations (this was in 99 and my memory is failing ). He is now almost 3 1/2 years old and is the best dog I've had in a long, long time. He is wonderful with the kids.
One hint I got when deciding to get another dog was NOT to look in the paper. The best breeders have their litters spoken for sometimes before birth, and they never need to advertise in the paper.
Robin M.

 

[fklhou]

Some breeders classify potential buyers as either "pet" homes or "show" homes. If you are going to splay or neuter the dog, then you are limiting yourself to "pet" quality dogs (you can not show a fixed animal in confirmation).. Any good breeder is going to want to have you agree to show and if possible finiish any "show" quality dogs. There are stats kept on the number of puppies from each litter that finish and there are competitions for best stud dog and female dog for breeding. The grandfather of one our dogs and the father of another of our dogs won best stud dog last year for beardies and in the competition, one of our dogs was shown with him at the national speciality show.

"Pet" quality is still fine if you have a good breeder who knows what they are doing. We are the Houston contact for the Beardie rescue network and took back a "pet" quallity beardie a year ago. We kept him for six weeks until his breeder found a new home for him. He was a great dog who fit in well in our house.

I have not checked to see if there is a speciality club for your breed. We check our breeders out on the Beardie speciality club and on an on-line group for beardies.

Have fun. A good pure bred dog can be a great deal of fun. My wife and my DD are really into showing dogs and it has been a great expierence for them.

 

[bsnyder]

Janette, we got a Bichon puppy in January (he'll be 1 on November 11th) and I just wanted to add what wonderful little dogs they are! DS has always been very alergic to pet hair, and he's had absolutely no problems with this breed.

We found our puppy through a breeder that my sister in laws parents found. They have two Bichons and our Gibson actually has the same mother as one of their dogs. So if you can find a breeder through word of mouth, that's always a good option.

I hope you can find a Bichon for DD. I think you'll be very happy with the breed. Please let me know how it goes!

 

[janette]

Talked to a person and they might have a dog. Waiting for a phone call. I'm afraid to look though because that means I'll probably bring home a dog.

fklhou - that does sound great to show the dogs but my girls have several other activities. They just want someone to cuddle with. A pet quality would be fine. There is a possibility that the person I talked to will have a non-registered Bichon and I don't really have a problem with that. She has one she registered and one she didn't.

 

[clutter]

I went against conventional wisdom when I got my cockapoo pup, but I went with my gut, and boy did we come out the winners!

First, I went to the internet to get information. There, I found a list of breeders that are trying to standardize this mix. I contacted a few, but fell in love with a breeder in the mid-states that would ship to me. In chatting with her, you could hear her love of all of her dogs and puppies, even though it's her business and she generally has a number of litters at all times. She temperment tests the pups, and trys to keep in touch with as many of her owners as she can. She requests that if you cannot keep the dog for any reason that you contact her so she can place it with another family. And she will only sell to people that are looking for a pet, no middle-men or pet stores. I couldn't visit her farm, but through the listserv, contacted other owners that had gotten their puppies from her. That had visited her. Other breeders on this list thought she and one other breeder were pretty much the tops in the country.

Came time for Clara to come home, and I had a choice of quite a few. She knew the size and color I wanted, so we went through personalities of the individual pups and the personalities of the dogs that she's placed from the parents before. She picked a few, sent me pictures, and we picked from them.

My vet cannot get over how wonderful a personality Clara has. She's exactly what I asked for, easygoing, calms down pretty quickly for a bouncy dog, listens well, and co-operative. And yes, on this list, the owners with the least problems got their dogs from this or a couple other professional breeders.

I know I put myself at risk, but I will never never again trust myself to judge a dogs personality. My old neighbors have a beagle.. we were with them when they picked her out. She's sweet as pie (I would have taken her if I hadn't had an elderly dog then), but neurotic as all get out!!!

Anyway, I disagree that if being a breeder is their business, you shouldn't get a dog there. If you build your reputation on breeding dogs with good personalities, you have more at stake than someone that decides to breed Fifi once or twice. And you have better guarantees, better communication (I still e-chat with my breeder!) and better recourse.

I might have been crazy, but I'd do it all over again!!!

 

[janette]

Well we brought home a puppy. My DD named him Tyler, he's a cutie. He doesn't have papers but that wasn't important, there are a few marking items he isn't perfect on. He likes to cuddle and is round and healthy. He's been to the vet for his shots but we'll take him again just to make sure.

Thank you to everyone for all your information. I know where I got him probably isn't the best place but my primiary objective was to get a pet. He was raised in the house not a kennel and is very used to being handled. He hasn't let us leave him on his own yet. He wouldn't sleep until I got him snuggled in with my DD and he seems quite comfortable now.

 

[dianeschlicht]

A reputable breeder will:
-Interview YOU.
-Offer a sales contract that guarantees not only the current health, but the genetic health of the puppy.
-Will offer proof of certification for being clear of genetic diseases inherent in that breed. (i.e. CERF for eyes or OFA for hips and elbows)
-Will be able to offer you a 4-5 generation pedigree at time of sale and the proper registration applications without waiting.
-Will offer a LOT of information on raising, training, health, traits, and history of the breed.
-Will be HONEST about the above.
-Will tell you if you are NOT a good candidate for this breed.
-Will be willing and able to show you ALL of their dogs and the conditions under which they live.
-Will have more than just 2 available parents. Soneone who breeds only one "pair", isn't doing their genetic homework, and is raising the pups for profit, not any other reason.

Steer clear of HUGE puppy operations or places that have numerous breeds. Also, it is best if the pups are raised in the house, or near a lot of human contact. You want to make sure the pup is well socialized.

Now, with all that being said....Be sure to research your chosen breed well by going to the AKC and Bichon Club of America web sites. Know what you are getting into. Bichon's are difficult to housebreak and need a LOT of coat care. Do not get this breed if you are not prepared to spend many hours a week brushing it.