What the guide said...

[Tamar]

We just got back from a short trip to the World, and went to the Member presentation at TOTW.

We misunderstood (or were misinformed) and thought we had to talk to a guide to get our fastpasses, so while we were there DH asked if/when other older resorts were going to be extended. The guide we were meeting with said never, based on how difficult and labor-intensive the OKW extension was, with them having to contact every owner and get a yay or nay from them.

I don't really care, as DH and I will be pretty old in 2042 and if we have to pay OOP to stay at BW I think we will be able to swing it, but DH is bummed.

I think the presentation was kind of fun, with cheesecake lollipops and prizes (I won the desk clock). The fastpasses are nothing to sneeze at with how busy it is these days, either.

 

[Crystal_27]

I don't think I'd give a lot of credibility to what your Guide said regarding the extensions. I'm sure that Disney learned a lot from its first experience with OKW (i.e., what works and what doesn't). And, 2042 is still a lot way out there...if you are able to take vacations every year until the contract expiration, you definitely will have done very well by your membership.

 

[Dean]

We just got back from a short trip to the World, and went to the Member presentation at TOTW.

We misunderstood (or were misinformed) and thought we had to talk to a guide to get our fastpasses, so while we were there DH asked if/when other older resorts were going to be extended. The guide we were meeting with said never, based on how difficult and labor-intensive the OKW extension was, with them having to contact every owner and get a yay or nay from them.

I don't really care, as DH and I will be pretty old in 2042 and if we have to pay OOP to stay at BW I think we will be able to swing it, but DH is bummed.

I think the presentation was kind of fun, with cheesecake lollipops and prizes (I won the desk clock). The fastpasses are nothing to sneeze at with how busy it is these days, either.

While I'd agree it's hard to put much stock in the source for this sitution, I suspect the answer is the currently accurate one and will likely end up being the final one. I would also agree that the OKW extension was done poorly but the poor choices they made tied their hands in many areas. IF they offer extensions going forward, expect a much different approach but one that doesn't conflict significantly with what happened with OKW. That means simply a cheaper option is unlikely to happen and I don't think we'd see any extension simply for less though this was likely the biggest mistake they made. IF there is an extension option expect it to either be MUCH later before it happens OR tied to an additional retail purchse.

 

[toniosmom]

I don't know I would take advantage even if they did offer one at the other resorts. I would rather buy an add-on now at a different resort and be able to use those points NOW.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

I don't know I would take advantage even if they did offer one at the other resorts. I would rather buy an add-on now at a different resort and be able to use those points NOW.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® this is the feedback that I heard from most Old Key West owners when being offered the extension. They would rather spend money on something their family can use NOW and not worry about paying for something most likely some other family would be enjoying between 2042 and 2057.

Jason

 

[disneynutz]

If Disney can make money on extensions, then they will offer them. If the extensions at OKW proved to be a more work than profit, I doubt if they will make an equivalent offer for the other resorts.

Bill

 

[Dean]

If Disney can make money on extensions, then they will offer them. If the extensions at OKW proved to be a more work than profit, I doubt if they will make an equivalent offer for the other resorts.

Bill

One of the issues is that even at the $15 a point there really isn't much money for DVD in this. The real benefit is more about stability of the system in later years.

 

[disneynutz]

One of the issues is that even at the $15 a point there really isn't much money for DVD in this. The real benefit is more about stability of the system in later years.

Dean, based upon your experience, do you really think that Disney cares about stability in the future?

They are letting really low resales pass ROFR and the recent changes made to the DVC policies and rules seem to favor Disney more than the DVC Members.

We keep getting promises and very little improvement to MS and the member website, while huge amounts of money and effort is spent on adding new members to a already over loaded system.

Bill

 

[Dean]

Dean, based upon your experience, do you really think that Disney cares about stability in the future?

They are letting really low resales pass ROFR and the recent changes made to the DVC policies and rules seem to favor Disney more than the DVC Members.

We keep getting promises and very little improvement to MS and the member website, while huge amounts of money and effort is spent on adding new members to a already over loaded system.

Bill

I do think they care. I believe I have a higher level of expectation and trust of DVC than do many here. It's been interesting to see those that believed blindly go the other way, much like a reformed addict. I see a much different picture than you do though my natural approach is just to the cynical side of realistic.

I'm sure your statements are more of examples than your whole feeling but all I can address is related to specifically what you list and my own feelings. IMO, ROFR has nothing to do with the system but rather is a reflection of the economic factors involved, DVC is still far ahead of all of the other systems in this area which are letting contracts go through at pennies on the dollar in many cases. I think MS does a fine job overall for what I'd expect out of such a system. I've learned to accept IT issues for what they are and IMO it would be a mistake to read too much into a slow moving series of changes. As for overloaded, they can't sell more than what is available and they should sell all of the rest (not sure if you're talking MS handling those members or reservation options). Mentally I separate the sales process and usage issues almost totally. To me it's only natural that they slant things to their advantage. I'm surprised that more negatives haven't happened like a VIP system and removal of certain options for those that bought resale.


In short, there is nothing related to the areas you bring up that would give me any concern about DVC, suggest they don't care about the members or that I see as shady. My only real areas of concern are the lack of planning and short notice changes. Examples would be the BWV and two AKV relocations due to refurbishments. I know you feel differently. It's been very interesting the last couple of years going from one who's honest posts could be perceived as negative to DVC at times to those same honest posts being perceived as a homer, plant or defender.

 

[Tamar]

Presumably, more members = more dues = more money for support. I don't think more members make for a more overloaded system...DVD should have the $$ to handle additional members as they are added.

The guide we met with also mentioned that 70% of members add on, so those "lost" in 2042 may by that time have added on at newer resorts. DH still thinks an awful lot of inventory is going to be available all of a sudden in 2042 if some extensions aren't offered.

 

[3DisneyKids]

I'm surprised that more negatives haven't happened like a VIP system and removal of certain options for those that bought resale.

Hi Dean! As you know, I regard you as the guru of all things timeshare, DVC or otherwise. So in your vast experience with other companies, do they differentiate between owners who purchased directly vs. those who bought via resale?

 

[Dean]

Hi Dean! As you know, I regard you as the guru of all things timeshare, DVC or otherwise. So in your vast experience with other companies, do they differentiate between owners who purchased directly vs. those who bought via resale?

In my experience, many companies do differentiate between those that bought directly and those that did not and in many cases, they have increased the differential over the years. Here are a few examples.

• Marriott allows those that bought directly to trade for their reward points and, in most cases, will not allow equity trades or list the resale for sale later. None of those overly important IMO. However they are rumored to be releasing their own points system and the rumor includes a significant differentiation between those that bought directly and those that did not. Marriott also gives priority to multiple week owners if reserving concurrent and consecutively.
  
• Bluegreen has a VIP program based on how many points you own with 5 different levels from Base to Platinum. Currently they only allow those points that were bought directly to count toward the levels. They do allow resales to count IF they were bought through their own resale arm but starting Tues they have set a min price for those bless resales to count that is about 5 times the current selling price of those qualified points and 25 times what you can buy nonqualified points for on the open market. The benefits at the top of BG's VIP system (Premier) are considerable and include being able to get on the wait list 4 months ahead of all others (decreases by 1 month per level), free cancelations up until 10 days out (they charge otherwise), 3 free off season weeks a year (can use or exchange), free access to their add on travel system ($49 a year otherwise AND you have to qualify based on when/how you bought). This last perks is huge and give access to a discount system tied to the entertainment book, access to RCI's points system directly (BG is weeks only otherwise) and access to many of the Shell properties similar to what DVC does with the BVTC.
  
• Wyndham and Westin have relatively similar situations to those described above from what I understand but I don't have quite enough knowledge of those to be complete and specific. So rather than post limited info that might risk being not completely accurate and could mislead someone, I'll stop there. There are others that can speak more intelligently on those systems on this BBS and others.

So while I realize that there are negatives from an owner standpoint, there are significant benefits to the seller in that they can differentiate the value of retail without having to worry much about the price of resale. It also allows one to sell more to those that bought previously, esp those that bought resale. All you have to do is show them benefits they don't currently have OR benefits of being at a higher points level and you can sell them an additional bundle of points. I know you'll get some that will tell you DVC would never do that because it would hurt their image and tick off those that bought previously but I disagree and I think they can do it tactfully enough that most would be fine. For retail vs resale benefits you just grandfather those currently in the system and set a date on short notice of where resales will no longer get certain benefits or will get additional benefits. If you roll out a VIP program with multiple levels based on points, you grandfather the current members at the level they are now. I'm not saying DVC will do this but ONLY that I'm surprised they haven't years ago AND that it's possible they could going forward.

 

[DebbieB]

Presumably, more members = more dues = more money for support. I don't think more members make for a more overloaded system...DVD should have the $$ to handle additional members as they are added.

The guide we met with also mentioned that 70% of members add on, so those "lost" in 2042 may by that time have added on at newer resorts. DH still thinks an awful lot of inventory is going to be available all of a sudden in 2042 if some extensions aren't offered.

If there are no extensions, then I assume in 2042 BWV, BCV and VWL will only be available through CRO. Maybe they will add them to the Disney Collection for DVC owners at other resorts. It does seem like alot of rooms to fill. My bet is they will come up with some kind of extension or new sales in order to get dues money to support them. I will be 82 so I don't think I'll care!

 

[Chuck S]

If there are no extensions, then I assume in 2042 BWV, BCV and VWL will only be available through CRO. Maybe they will add them to the Disney Collection for DVC owners at other resorts. It does seem like alot of rooms to fill. My bet is they will come up with some kind of extension or new sales in order to get dues money to support them. I will be 82 so I don't think I'll care!

I think the 2042 resorts will revert to Disney, go through a full rehab (and maybe even reconstruction) then be sold as "new contracts". They can bring them online slowly, one resort at a time, using them for cash reservations in the meantime.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

i think the 2042 resorts will revert to disney, go through a full rehab (and maybe even reconstruction) then be sold as "new contracts". They can bring them online slowly, one resort at a time, using them for cash reservations in the meantime.

Bingo!

 

[MarvelousMadamMimm]

Interestingly, one of the guides we spoke with insisted that ALL the resorts would be extended eventually, and that plans were on the table for working out just how to do it next time.

Possibly he'd been promoted to Guide from Bus Driver, I'm not sure.

Though I should note that this was in reference to the pros and cons of Boardwalk and Beachclub vs. Saratoga.