What should be cut first?

[lacrosse_lady72]

Wow. This conversation has gotten ugly.

 

[golfgal]

Again, do you have proof?

I have proof that disagrees with your statement:

America's Best High Schools 2010 (US News and World Report)

(Looks like there are 11 southern states in the top 20. I don't see any Minnesota schools in the top 100.)

America's Best High Schools

(Minnesota ranks 31st. There are five southern states in the top 20.)

Um, your PROOF is simply a poll on the number of kids that take AP tests--they don't even have to PASS the tests just take them, so there is no PROOF there at all. If our high school required all students to take an AP test we would be listed #1 because of the size of our school--does that make a school better or worse, no.

 

[dsny1mom]

You can just go on thinking that--there isn't a state in the south that even cracks the top 20 in quality of education. I figured the hourly wage by the number of hours teachers actually worked in our district. I am sure our teachers would LOVE to only have to be in school 7 hours/day.

Oh please. You make it out like the south is full of nothing but a bunch of poorly educated slackers. It's not only wrong, it's insulting. We have managers in MN and in the south ( NC, GA, etc.) The managers in MN are no better, more intelligent, or harder working than the ones in the south. Based on MY personal interactions with all of them the managers from MN tend to think they are better than all others, though. Again this is MY observation of our employees and by no means a blanket statement.

The teachers here are suppossed to be in the building from 8:30-4:00 (although you'd be hard pressed to find many teachers still in the building at 3:30). They get a paid 30 minute lunch break. Thus working 7 hours a day, max. So what hours are the teachers in the buildings in MN?

dsny1mom

 

[bicker]

Wow. This conversation has gotten ugly.

Sure has. Sad: It basically validates the forum's rules against such discussions.

I'm outta here.

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

I'm not on anyone's side here but I thought I'd throw this out there.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

I don't know what is defined as South but they're certainly not at the top of the list.

But I think there is a huge difference within each individual state as well. For example, the Hillsboro, OR school district is awful in comparison to it's neighbor Beaverton, OR's school district. Both are awful compared to the SD of Lake Oswego, OR.

 

[golfgal]

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

This one gives a more comprehensive view vs just taking into consideration the number of students that take an AP test.

 

[HsvTeacher]

Um, your PROOF is simply a poll on the number of kids that take AP tests--they don't even have to PASS the tests just take them, so there is no PROOF there at all. If our high school required all students to take an AP test we would be listed #1 because of the size of our school--does that make a school better or worse, no.

Um, you said quality of education. You put forth absolutely no qualifiers in your statement. It was as broad as could be.

If fact, you proved my point. I can sit here all day long and pull up data that can swing either way. However, you have given me absolutely no markable data to prove your point. Your opinion of southern states is just that, an opinion.

Oh, and you still haven't answered my question from a few posts back: How long did you live/work in a southern state? Why won't you answer that question?

 

[Minniemama350]

Do away with the massive pay-outs for unused sick and vacation time that so many administrators seem to get. Why does there need to be a superintendent, two assistants superintendents, a principal in every building with at least one assistant principal (often two?) If a married couple teach in the same district, only one should be eligible for benefits (family plan) and the other should NOT receive financial remuneration for the benefits. Part time workers (cafeteria workers, etc.) should not be eligible for benefits or be eligible for pensions. I live in NJ, and the benefits in our educational system are often abused..a local superintendent retired last year and got close to $200,000 in sick and vacation day pay, and this was NOT the highest pay-out of its kind in our state. The spouse of a fellow teacher gets $$$ for not taking benefits even though their husband/wife is in the same system and a family plan covers the family.

In some states, the money the spouse gets for not taking benefits is theirs to begin with: it is and was always part of their salary. The govt only pays for part of my benefits, I pay for a nice chunk of it as well. If I ELECT to not use that money for benefits, it IS MINE!

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

Where's a mod to close a thread when you need them?

 

[Kae]

I think they should try to expand the day even if only by a 1/2 hour it would then mean less days which means less heating/cooling of the buildings, bus driver, office help, food service, use of engergy lower bills.

Kae

 

[golfgal]

Um, you said quality of education. You put forth absolutely no qualifiers in your statement. It was as broad as could be.

If fact, you proved my point. I can sit here all day long and pull up data that can swing either way. However, you have given me absolutely no markable data to prove your point. Your opinion of southern states is just that, an opinion.

Oh, and you still haven't answered my question from a few posts back: How long did you live/work in a southern state? Why won't you answer that question?

We only lived in a southern state for a short period of time (MO) but my husbands company has worked with people from the south for 25 years and my experience is through that and the amount of time and effort they have to put in to get people in the divisions in the south to work to the production levels of the people in the north-plain and simple. Apples to apples comparison of the same, job, same work, same resources to get the job done. I didn't answer the question because I didn't see it.

 

[DawnCt1]

Where's a mod to close a thread when you need them?

Frankly, if people don't want to participate in a thread, there is nothing holding them here. I have no interest in participating in the discussion of whose schools are better. It doesn't interest me, so I won't respond to that part of the discussion, if some do, so what? Why should the thread be closed.

 

[taylor3297]

Thank You.

To be honest, I had an additional reason for breaking down the teacher's salary, in my area, to the hourly rate. I think people should know what the hourly rate is that our teachers are paid. It's deceptive to say one *only* earns 46K a year with a teachers schedule, since they are actually earning $32 an hour. Some teachers, not all mind you, want the public to perceive them as being grossly underpaid for doing such noble work. But when you look at what they actually earn for the hours they actually work in the classroom that grossly underpaid facade fades quickly. Most teachers are off cummatively 23 weeks a year. There is nothing stopping them from gaining additional employment, to boost their income, during those 165 that they are not teaching.

dsny1mom

Remember those "off" days are not part of the paid contract, so teachers are not getting paid for those. Also, the amount of contracted days various from state to state. In GA my contract was for 190 days. In NC my contract was originally for 200 days then it was cut to 195 days. When a teacher who is "off" in the summer or if you teach year round school and you are "off' during track out these again are nonpaid days. What helped having these off days, it allowed me to go to workshops and take classes to get the CEU's that are needed for re-certification every 5 years.

Now where to cut a school budget, is very hard to pinpoint. Each district is so different. The county in which I live has close to 150,000 students and it just has the one school district. Central office is trying to find where to cut 20 million for next year. I know I would hate to have that job.

Hopefully, we can all agree there isn't one perfect answer.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You can just go on thinking that--there isn't a state in the south that even cracks the top 20 in quality of education. I figured the hourly wage by the number of hours teachers actually worked in our district. I am sure our teachers would LOVE to only have to be in school 7 hours/day.

I guess one can find a 'study' that would support just about anything one wanted. This http://www.msubillings.edu/CAER/quality_rankings_of_education_in.htm one seems to offer different results.
And this one http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/QC08PressPacketFINALcomp.pdf by the PEW Center. Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee - all southern states, right? - all in the top 20. Poor Louisiana only made it to 21 . Interesting chart on pay parity on this document, too. Minnesota's dead flat in the middle of the rankings at number 25.

That will be the "carbon" tax.

Which it would not surprise me to learn that your state would be the first to enact . And yet people call US "Taxachusetts".

 

[dsny1mom]

I know exactly to whom you were speaking. It was a backhanded insult directed at me.

My comment was in response to you saying........

"So you can't judge all teachers from the 2 you know. Maybe these two aren't doing their jobs well."

So it's Ok for you to insult teachers I know but if you are called out on it it's not ok? Again I didn't say that **to** you. I said I could but I wouldn't, and I didn't.

Bottom line is that ANY salaried position may require work being brought home as they are being paid to get a job done not by the hour. IMHO the teaching profession is not exempt from that as long as it is a salaried position. If you don't agree please explain why a salaried teacher should be treated differently than any other salaried employee in any other salaried position.

dsny1mom

 

[taylor3297]

My comment was in response to you saying........

"So you can't judge all teachers from the 2 you know. Maybe these two aren't doing their jobs well."

So it's Ok for you to insult teachers I know but if you are called out on it it's not ok? Again I didn't say that **to** you. I said I could but I wouldn't, and I didn't.

Bottom line is that ANY salaried position may require work being brought home as they are being paid to get a job done not by the hour. IMHO the teaching profession is not exempt from that as long as it is a salaried position. If you don't agree please explain why a salaried teacher should be treated differently than any other salaried employee in any other salaried position.

dsny1mom

No it is NOT ok for me to insult and that was not my intent. Sometimes things we type don't always come across as intended. I was going on what you were saying about 2 people you have contact with. Also, by what you typed about having to burn the midnight oil, then say you could be wouldn't; is actually saying it. Not saying it all would be more accurate. At least that is how I understood what you typed.

Not all salaried positions are a one type fits all type. The only way at this point I can try to express what I mean is how I would create lessons for my students. Not all students learn the same so I differentiate the curriculum in order to meet each students needs. So, every salaried position has its own "curriculum" per se, thus responibilites are differentiated, thus need to be handled/treated differently.

Sometimes it is so hard to express what one really is thinking or feeling with the typed word.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think they should try to expand the day even if only by a 1/2 hour it would then mean less days which means less heating/cooling of the buildings, bus driver, office help, food service, use of engergy lower bills.

Half hour wouldn't work. If, going by my local high school, the current school day is 6.5 hours, that's 1,170 hours in a 180 day school year, or 32.5 hours a week.

To get the same 32.5 hours in a four day week, you'd need to extend the school day by 1.625 hours per day, or from 6.5 hours to eight hours, 7.5 minutes. Now, here, that means elementary school students would be getting out about 4:30 every day. I don't know how well that would go over; I know this city's parents already voted not to extend the school day - i.e. longer days while still attending five days a week.

 

[taylor3297]

Half hour wouldn't work. If, going by my local high school, the current school day is 6.5 hours, that's 1,170 hours in a 180 day school year, or 32.5 hours a week.

To get the same 32.5 hours in a four day week, you'd need to extend the school day by 1.625 hours per day, or from 6.5 hours to eight hours, 7.5 minutes. Now, here, that means elementary school students would be getting out about 4:30 every day. I don't know how well that would go over; I know this city's parents already voted not to extend the school day - i.e. longer days while still attending five days a week.

I am just curious as to what time elementary schools start in your area? Most in our district start at 9:15 and are released at 3:45. So we could actually start a bit earlier to do a 4 day school week, but the district is so large I am not sure the parents would go for it.

 

[golfgal]

Half hour wouldn't work. If, going by my local high school, the current school day is 6.5 hours, that's 1,170 hours in a 180 day school year, or 32.5 hours a week.

To get the same 32.5 hours in a four day week, you'd need to extend the school day by 1.625 hours per day, or from 6.5 hours to eight hours, 7.5 minutes. Now, here, that means elementary school students would be getting out about 4:30 every day. I don't know how well that would go over; I know this city's parents already voted not to extend the school day - i.e. longer days while still attending five days a week.

Our elementary schools already get out around 4:30--well one gets out at 4:00 and the other at 4:30. If our district went to a 4 day week we would have to add just about 2 hours/day to the schedule. Our high school would go from 7:30 to 4:30 every day.

 

[RobDoc]

Perhaps it would be best to just discuss the topic of the thread without any further insults and arguments. Otherwise, it may just be best to close the thread.

Thanks in advance.