What other timeshare do you like?

[minniesfriend]

My in-laws have Marriott.

I remember when they went to their first sales meeting BC they got a "free" trip. It was at the Marriott Grand Vista which is located near WDW. (We were with them, sharing a 2 BR). The 1.5 hour into breakfast turned into a much longer sales pitch, and they came away with points. A year or so later, they had the "members update" meeting (which took the whole morning) and came away with more points. I think they added on once more after that.

Here are my observations:
- It is a point system very similar to DVC
- I think the weeks are tiered pricing, similar to DVC
- The booking windows are similar to DVC Home Resort
- Some properties cost more points than others
- Some locations are better than others, so do some research before booking
- Some locations are competitive (Hawaii)
- Units are usually clean and basic. Not as nice as DVC, IMO, but fine.
- They can bank, borrow, and trade into Interval (I think it's Interval)
- There is an additional fee when staying. Maybe for parking or something?
- They have enjoyed their points with family and friends
- All of the 2 BR's I've stayed in were lock offs
- They have enough points for 2 BR's, twice a year. Their dues are currently about $500/month
- There is no expiration date on these contracts. Dues are forever

Fast forward 25 years from initial purchase and now they are looking to either sell them or give them to one of the three boys. None of us want them. We already own DVC. The middle brother has already been to many of the places. The youngest brother has familial issues that don't work with a TS. So, they are faced with trying to sell them. I think they are going to use Fidelity. They will make something, but nowhere close to their purchase price.

In the end - they've made great memories and the points have been well used.

If you're gonna buy, buy resale. It's wayyyy less. And there is no sales meeting.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

We will never sell our DVC!
If looking to use another timeshare for non Disney travel...what have you guys experienced and liked. How do you like your ownership? What brand?
Ty just looking into the future!

Resale Wyndham points at the cheapest maintenance fee Wyndham resort you can get them at. Great for Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek ant Disney and other Wyndham resorts all around the country. At the 10 month mark Wyndham points can be used to book any Wyndham property (like the 7 month mark for DVC), and unlike DVC, there is wide availability for nearly every resort at the 10 month mark.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Our family owns in the Wyndham TS group, and they’re fine. But if I were buying today, I’d look at Marriott. I think that overall, their resorts are nicer.

If you’re really interested in exploring other systems, join the Timeshare Users Group and read their forums at tugbbs.com, especially the section on Timeshare Resort Systems.

Marriott has a much steeper learning curve. Resale Marriott points are not worth it because of the high maintenance fees. Instead, you need to buy a resale Marriott week with lock off ability and learn how to use it to trade both sides of the lock off in interval international to get other Marriott (or other timeshare brand) weeks. I own DVC, resale Wyndham, and resale Marriott. Of the three, Marriott is the most complicated to use effectively.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I went to a Wyndham presentation after staying on a friend's points nearly 2 decades ago. We bought after staying all day with high pressure indecision & then immediately rescinded. That's the only experience we had.

There is no reason to ever buy Wyndham directly from the developer. Resale Wyndham can be had for pennies on the dollar and points are points in the Wyndham system.

 

[Brian Noble]

- Units are usually clean and basic. Not as nice as DVC, IMO, but fine.

Huh. That's not usually been my experience. Typically, the Marriott units themselves are larger and better appointed than most DVC units of similar configuration, though some of the newer DVC resorts have upped their game. There are some exceptions---usually, those are hotel conversions. Kauai Beach Club comes to mind as an example of the latter, but it has the advantage of being right on Nawiliwili Bay.

Custom House is also a very unusual retrofit, but in an historic building in Boston. I stayed there when I was working with a client nearby.
https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/bosch-marriott-vacation-club-at-custom-house-boston/overview/

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

DVC is another thing altogether, so dissimilar from other timeshares that it should almost be called something else.

I always hear people say this, but I think everyone needs to be really careful and realistic about what DVC is. It is definitely a timeshare. It could definitely go to zero and be a worthless liability as dues rise and resale prices fall (some of the recent decisions by Disney such as resale restrictions seem intent on pushing it there eventually).

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I’ll tell you how it is in February. Hilton got me with a 4 night stay and 100k points for $150 in Orlando. It will be our first time trying Disney off property. But for that price I’ll roll the dice lol.

**DO NOT BUY DIRECT FROM HILTON UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES**

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

My in-laws have Marriott.

I remember when they went to their first sales meeting BC they got a "free" trip. It was at the Marriott Grand Vista which is located near WDW. (We were with them, sharing a 2 BR). The 1.5 hour into breakfast turned into a much longer sales pitch, and they came away with points. A year or so later, they had the "members update" meeting (which took the whole morning) and came away with more points. I think they added on once more after that.

Here are my observations:
- It is a point system very similar to DVC
- I think the weeks are tiered pricing, similar to DVC
- The booking windows are similar to DVC Home Resort
- Some properties cost more points than others
- Some locations are better than others, so do some research before booking
- Some locations are competitive (Hawaii)
- Units are usually clean and basic. Not as nice as DVC, IMO, but fine.
- They can bank, borrow, and trade into Interval (I think it's Interval)
- There is an additional fee when staying. Maybe for parking or something?
- They have enjoyed their points with family and friends
- All of the 2 BR's I've stayed in were lock offs
- They have enough points for 2 BR's, twice a year. Their dues are currently about $500/month
- There is no expiration date on these contracts. Dues are forever

Fast forward 25 years from initial purchase and now they are looking to either sell them or give them to one of the three boys. None of us want them. We already own DVC. The middle brother has already been to many of the places. The youngest brother has familial issues that don't work with a TS. So, they are faced with trying to sell them. I think they are going to use Fidelity. They will make something, but nowhere close to their purchase price.

In the end - they've made great memories and the points have been well used.

If you're gonna buy, buy resale. It's wayyyy less. And there is no sales meeting.

Marriott’s points product is junk. The maintenance fees are too high versus the cost to just book it cash to make it worth it, even on the resale market (and if you purchase it resale, you have to pay many thousands of dollars of upfront junk fees to Marriott). The weeks based system is worth it if you learn how to use it properly with Interval, but that is very complex.

 

[airjay75]

- There is no expiration date on these contracts. Dues are forever

This is something I would have a really hard time getting my head around unless there was some sort of clear exit ramp with the developer. I guess the plan might just be, well, worst case, I die, and my heirs disclaim it.

I always hear people say this, but I think everyone needs to be really careful and realistic about what DVC is. It is definitely a timeshare. It could definitely go to zero and be a worthless liability as dues rise and resale prices fall (some of the recent decisions by Disney such as resale restrictions seem intent on pushing it there eventually).

You are absolutely correct - no one should buy DVC with the expectation of recouping any of their upfront cost. That said, I think the location of DVC properties (well, at least the WDW properties) does give me some comfort about the long-term ability to exit DVC if I wanted to, even with the resale restrictions. It is easier for me to get comfortable that WDW properties will still be in demand 30 or 40 years from now with a cash rate that equals or exceeds the increase in dues - in theory, even a restricted resale contract should still have some value so long as that remains the case. I have a lot less confidence about a Marriott or Hilton type property located in some resort town somewhere. Sort of how I would personally feel about VB/HHI/AUL if those were resorts that were not part of DVC and were, instead, part of vacation club with exchanges into other beach resorts. If those resorts didn't have the Disney name attached to it, I suspect their cash rates would be even lower than they are now.

 

[Brian Noble]

There are (roughly) two different timeshares one might own*.

1. The annual fees are less than it costs to rent a similar week at a similar resort in that location.
2. The annual fees are more than it costs to rent that week.

Weeks in Category 1 always have some value, and can be re-homed without too much trouble. One way to do that is to offer it up for "adoption" at TUG. I've adopted a couple that way and I was happy to get them while the previous owner was happy to hand them down to the next person.

Weeks in Category 2 are worthless. There aren't that many weeks like this---they tend to be off-season weeks at older resorts in lower-demand locations that are highly seasonal. But if you have one the only way out is to either offer a deed back in lieu of foreclosure or (if the HOA won't take it back that way) just stop paying the fees and allow the HOA to eventually foreclose.

But, that's a very rare circumstance. Many resorts in that category end up winding down and selling off the property, distributing any residual proceeds to the owners. Wyndham is in the process of winding down about a dozen of their older less popualr resorts. Owners at those resorts are mostly not in Category 2 yet, but even so, they have a clean exit. Those owners will be given the option to exchange their points at the terminating resort for an equivalent number of points in the Trust product, or to accept whatever payout the sale generates. Holiday Inn has done something similar with some of the Silverleaf resorts they acquired.

Interestingly, this is also eventually what happens with Category 2 resorts. As more owners default, the HOA holds a bunch of inventory it cannot monetize via rental. At some point, the HOA will throw in the towel, because (a) they have a fiduciary responsibility to the owners, and (b) it is the only financially sensible option.

--------------
*: There is a third category: Weeks that are arguably in Category 2 but are good enough traders to get into higher-value weeks. Doing this requires some effort though, and is well beyond the conversation here. It is also how a lot of those "adopted" weeks end up being used.

 

[Brian Noble]

In the interests of full disclosure, I own four different timeshares at the moment.

1. Some DVC points---about half developer and (when a current contract closes) half resale.
2. Some Wyndham points, all resale (and at very low cost)
3. A fixed week (bought resale, also very low cost) I use as a trader
4. A floating week (adopted for free, and converted to Wyndham points for free) that is at a resort that is winding down.

Each of these plays a different role in meeting my vacation needs, and I've been happy to own all of them.

I've never stayed at Resort #3, but I have traded it for Marriott resorts in Hawaii and Aruba, (many) DVC villas, Hiltons in Hawaii, etc. I've mostly used the Wyndham points in-system, but sometimes use them to exchange back into Wyndham resorts via RCI for a heavy points discount. (For example, I ended up getting a studio in the Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego for about a 50% discount.) I also used them to exchnage into Hilton, as well as DVC back when they were RCI affiliates.

I stayed at #4 for many years. I will miss that one, but they are a bit more than 40 years old, and they recently discovered some construction defects that will about as much to fix than the condos are worth, and the owners recently voted to terminate the resort and auction it off. It's oceanfront on Kauai, so I suspect someone will buy it, bulldoze it, and build new condos there. Since I acquired it via adoption, no harm no foul---frankly, I'm going to get more back for it than the Zero Dollars I expected.

 

[airjay75]

Very interesting information, @Brian Noble. Thanks for sharing. My interest might be going beyond minor curiosity to at least doing some more reading over on tugbbs.com

 

[Brian Noble]

My advice: take your time, and read twice as much as you think you need to before buying anything. It is very easy to buy a resale timeshare, and it is worth being judicious. For example, that trader week (#3) was not very carefully thought out, and I stumbled into it with a fair bit of luck.

 

[TCRAIG]

I’ll tell you how it is in February. Hilton got me with a 4 night stay and 100k points for $150 in Orlando. It will be our first time trying Disney off property. But for that price I’ll roll the dice lol.

As a Hilton Grand Vacation Club owner - let me advise you - DONT DO IT! - the program may be ‘points based’ - but you’re still locked into a season/room size/7 day/checkin day restriction if you want to use your home resort advantage. Also - for non-home resort stays, the 3 night minimum is a killer because of availability…most good properties are hard to get and you need to call because they’re not setup for online booking…and if you think Disney is nickel and diming ya - wait til you see HGVC fees. Banking has a fee, converting to Hilton Honors has a fee, RCI swapping has a fee, guests using your points has a fee…etc etc…all of which go up every year. You can get the upgrade (don’t remember what it’s called) - but that’ll cost ya too and doesn’t include the conversions fees.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I’ll tell you how it is in February. Hilton got me with a 4 night stay and 100k points for $150 in Orlando. It will be our first time trying Disney off property. But for that price I’ll roll the dice lol.

I also fell for this deal but hadn’t decided if I wanted to actually go yet. It’s the points that got me!

 

[moochpuppy]

Without question...Marriott!