What is the deal with all you Disney/Pixar Naysayers?

[CWIPPERMAN]

I have noticed a trend with many of the posts on this forum that mention Disney and Pixar in the same thread. It seems that there are some of you that make it sound like the only thing keeping Disney afloat right now is their relationship with Pixar. In another thread right now - the topic is Disney's total box office for the year 2003.

Because of these "naysayers", people are actually having to total this years box office without "Finding Nemo" because some folks say that a "Pixar release shouldn't count toward Disney's total box office".

When I see all of these folks saying how important the Pixar relationship is - I chuckle. First.... the common thought is "where would Disney be without Pixar right now". My response is "where would pixar be without the DISNEY name to put on its movies". Sure..... they are a powerhouse right now. But do any of you honestly think that CGI animation would be as widely accepted today if it wasn't Pixar's relationship with Disney that brought it "main stream"? Would Pixar be making $100 million blockbusters - or would they be making commercials for Pepsi? Take a look at movies like Final Fantasy. A CGI movie without the Disney/Pixar name - and a flop. Sure SHREK did good - but hell... until I started reading this board... I figured it was a Disney/Pixar movie. In fact.... I only found out from reading a post on Jimhillmedia.com recently that ICE AGE was NOT a Disney/Pixar movie.

I guess what I'm saying is that Pixar NEEDS Disney much more than Disney needs Pixar. And I don't believe for one second that Pixar could survive for one minute on thier own without the Disney name.

Now.... lately I seem to find myself being a "Car 1" person. I am becoming very tired of all of the Disney bashing that goes on around here. Sure Eisney has his problems..... but I would be willing to bet that no matter who was at the helm (except for Walt himself) - there would be those of you out there that would never be satisfied.

I'm barely under 4 weeks from my third WDW trip. I can barely sleep I'm so excited. I have countdown timers loaded on the desktop of every computer I touch (home, work). I can honestly see myself become a WDW'aholic. I am already making plans for next years trip. To me - there is just too much magic and happiness to let "little things" ruin your trip. It just blows my mind how critical some of you can be about "the most magical place in the world" - and the "most magical company in the world".

Disney is a special company. Think about what our world would be like without Disney. Think about how many times a day your life is touched by something Disney. So.... stop being so overly critical of this company. Stop making it seem like Disney is circling the toilet - and is clinging on to the Pixar life-raft. The simple truth is - Disney's deal with Pixar was for 5 movies - one of which was Finding Nemo. So.......... Nemo wouldn't have been made without Disney. Neither would Monsters, Toy Story, The Incredibles, or any other future projects. Pixar would have probably been another victim of the dot.com crash - and would be just another empty office building somewhere.

In the end.... I say.... absolutely include Nemo in the total box office for Disney. And stop being so critical. DISNEY RULES!

 

[hopemax]

I'll tell you one reason why I don't believe Pixar NEEDS Disney.

75 years ago Universal Pictures had a deal to distribute pictures made by a small Hollywood studio. Universal was run by a man by the name of Charlie Mintz. Mr. Mintz was so sure that he had the small studio by the shorthairs because he hired all the artists, save one, and this small studio wasn't a Hollywood player.

You do know who the small studio is that I'm talking about, right? I don't think Pixar needs Disney anymore than the Disney Brothers needed Universal. Disney had Walt, Roy, Ub Iwerks and the ability to create entertaining pictures that people wanted to see. And that's what Pixar has; several talented and dedicated filmmakers. I'm sure it works out very nicely that Pixar didn't have the burden of making, distributing and marketing the films themselves, but I'm not sure that Steve Jobs wouldn't have found a way to finance the pictures if they didn't have Disney's help.

If you didn't know that Shrek and Ice Age weren't Disney films, I doubt you would have realized that whatever Pixar produced wasn't Disney as well. Pixar's biggest worry isn't, "are you coming because you think it's Disney," they'd be just happy that your coming. Same as Dreamworks/Shrek and Fox/Ice Age . Name recognition will come with time. You eventually learned that two non-Disney studios produced successful animated pictures.

Disney certainly made Pixar's climb easier, but that doesn't mean that they would have abandoned the climb altogether. I don't think John Lassiter would give up his dream that easily. And I find this whole "Pixar won't survive without Disney" so reminiscent of the Disney company's history. The thing is I think this Disney/Pixar situation is getting more press than the Universal/Disney thing did, which means Pixar has it's own identity, it's own reputation within the industry and business worlds, and that's half the battle.

 

[Planogirl]

I agree that Pixar needed Disney when the company started coming to the forefront. However, as Pixar has become more and more successful, I don't believe that name recognition is a problem for Pixar any more. I believe that most movie goers are savvy enough to recognize the little desk lamp now and the only question is whether Pixar has the ability to distribute or if they want to find someone else to distribute. It won't matter because as long as Pixar cranks out movies like Nemo, they should do just fine.

And have fun on your trip. I'm glad that you're so excited.

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

This is all about Brand Identity, and quality. Pixar certainly benefited from their years with the Mouse. Over time, Pixar has been building their own brand identity.

If they believe that they are strong enough to exist independently, then they may indeed strike off on their own, using another studio to distribute. As much as I love Pixar's movies though, I wonder if they are "smelling a bit too much of their own exaust". Nemo was distributed by a company that really knows how to market it's product. Disney does that better than any other studio. Pixar may indeed be ready to go elsewhere, but I think that they should simply work to renegotiate their contract with Disney so that everyone can still benefit from that association. In fact, that is what I suspect they really want to do, and that all of this "other studio" talk in the media may only be a ploy to help them get better terms.

Since I don't work in the entertainment industry, and am simply a consumer, I will be waiting to hear the outcome with a bowl of popcorn in my lap and a DVD playing in my living room. No matter what happens, I still get to watch the movies. Isn't life grand?!!

 

[GANYMEDE]

Simple math. Up until Nemo. Pixar films accounted for 50% of the Disney Stuidos income. Where would Disney be without that income?

 

[KNWVIKING]

Pixar has been around since '94- right ? And in 9 years they have made a total of 5 films - or is it 6 ? And during this timeline Disney has provided half the production costs- correct ? During this same time, how many movies has Disney put out ?

I guess I'm just mystified why everyone stands so in awe of Pixar. Hard to imagine Disney ever survived without them. The entire Disney empire has only survived this last decade because of 5 films.

 

[DisneyKidds]

My take...................................

Pixar needed Disney at one time. Pixar's continued future success would be EASIER if they maintain a relationship with Disney, but Pixar has the talent and capability to acheive success with just about anyone.........or even on their own. It might be harder (if even only slightly), but they could certainly do it. Heck, after the success of Nemo Pixar doesn't need Disney to front any production money either. But will they say goodbye to Disney.......................

Given that Disney will likely negotiate a deal similar to what other suitors might offer (ps - if they don't I will officially abandon any thought that ME ever had two cells in the noggin to rub together) and the "devil you know is better than the devil you don't" - I think Pixar and Disney will hammer something out. I don't think Pixar would try to make a go of it alone. Heck, they are in the drivers seat for negotiations and won't be forced to make the solo attempt. That is a far different place than where the Disney Brothers were when Universal tried to take them out.....................

As for counting Nemo in the Disney haul.....................sure, you have to. Heck, numbers and Hollywood...................hard to tell what is fact and what is fiction when it comes to such things. Nemo is a Disney/Pixar (or is that Pixar/Disney) release and Disney, deserved or not, gets to take claim to the numbers. They negotiated he deal with Pixar, had whatever input................essentially did the work (as little as some may think that might have been) and now they reap the rewards.

As for Disney bashing and whether or not DISNEY RULES...................Well, pay attention to what is behind the bashing and you may learn a few more things, of course they may not be things you want to learn. Sure, the bashing in some instances is justified.....................in others perhaps not, and that comes from a bone fide "second vehicle" advocate. Either way, in the end I agree that Disney is the best choice out there for lots of things......................but yelling DISNEY RULES isn't the best way to either get people to agree with you, or at the least make them understand why you believe what you do .

The entire Disney empire has only survived this last decade because of 5 films.

I'm sure our good friend AV will provide us with all sorts of fact and figures about how all the profit made on Disney pictures (regardless of release studio) is limited to that which can be tied to the Pixar movies. Of course he won't say anything about how it likely ain't all that simple . Either way, he just might summize that when it comes to surviving as a studio, that survivial is completely dependant upon Pixar. Not that I agree............but I'm sure the presentation will be very convincing. But the survival of the Disney Empire as a whole......................not sure many would make that argument. After all, films have not been the primary money maker for Disney for a while now.......................

 

[Bstanley]

I guess I'm just mystified why everyone stands so in awe of Pixar.

Oh I don't know, maybe it's because they are VERY good at what they do. Certainly much better at it than anyone else.

Pixar has released 5 films - Pixar has 5 films in the top 100 films of ALL time. Even their 'worst' movie (Bug's Life) made literally hundreds of millions of dollars of profit.

All 5 of their films were in the top 5 for their respective release years (I think we can assume Nemo will be in the top 5...).

Disney may very well have survived (as we know it) because of Pixar - those 5 films have put over a BILLION dollars into Disney's corporate coffers in ticket money alone - plus heaven knows how many BILLIONS in Videos, DVDs, plush toys, etc. etc.

-bruce

 

[Peter Pirate]

I agree that Pixar could go it alone if they choose but I don't believe they're even considering this...They'll be looking for a new distribution deal if they leave Disney.

Further, as to Pixars stability, I wonder. These movies are expensive. It seems they're basically 'betting the farm' on each one, much like Walt did. So what if, WHAT IF they leave Disney and their first offering, an expensive offering, pulls a Sinbad at the boxoffice? Can they really survive? What would this do to their reputation and credibility? Note: I'm really thinking out loud here not passing concrete judgement...

 

[Planogirl]

Hasn't there been talk in the past of how Steve Jobs and Michael Eisner really don't seem to get along well? And how there are two huge egos at play here? Will this make a difference in negotiations?

Pixar has been incredibly successful even if there have only been five full length films. They have also won awards and accolades for their short subjects and they seem to be getting an awful lot of respect nowadays. Can Disney claim the same particularly when it comes to animation?

After all, films have not been the primary money maker for Disney for a while now.......................

Nice, Mr Kidds.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I'd like to see a poll of average movie go'ers. List the 5 Pixar movies but don't identify who made them, and then ask them to name the film co. I wonder what the ratio of Pixar's to Disney's might be ?

I think Steve Jobs would even admit that having Disney's name up there next to Pixar's has added to the success of his films.

Bstanley: I'm very well aware of the facts you pointed out. But I think Disney can fill that void without the sweet deal they have with Pixar.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. Kidds,

DITTO!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"But the survival of the Disney Empire as a whole......................not sure many would make that argument. After all, films have not been the primary money maker for Disney for a while now......................." ***


Just to clarify my original post "The entire Disney empire has only survived this last decade because of 5 films." Sarcasm was the intended effect. I just get the impression some posters think Pixar is the only reason Disney is still in business.

 

[HB2K]

I think Steve Jobs would even admit that having Disney's name up there next to Pixar's has added to the success of his films.

In the beginning....yes the Disney name helped the Pixar movies out immensely. But that was then, and this is now.

If it's the name and only the name, why is it the Pixar/Disney branded films do tremendous at the box office, yet the Disney branded films do poorly?

If the Disney brand name is driving the box office, it shouldn't really matter what film it's attached to right?

I'm very well aware of the facts you pointed out. But I think Disney can fill that void without the sweet deal they have with Pixar.

How do you propose the Disney company will fill the void that the current Pixar deal will leave when it expires?

Here's some of the prominent divisions and my response to their potential to fill the void.

Theme parks?
Not likely without a MAJOR infusion of capital....and where is that going to come from?

The old adage....you need money to make money. And right now, especially after Pixar takes their nut, Disney doesn't have the money to do this.

Feature Animation?
You're kidding right??????


ABC?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


ABCFAMILY?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man that was good....

So where are the lost profits going to come from?

 

[Bstanley]

I think Disney can fill that void without the sweet deal they have with Pixar.

I don't see how. Pixar is batting 1000% (so far at least) and no one has ever done that before - not even Walt's first 5 animated pictures were that successful.

Assuming that Pixar signs up with Disney:

Pixar is not going to sign a deal giving Disney anywhere near the same piece of the money that they originally gave Disney.

Pixar is not going to sign a deal giving Disney anywhere near the same future control of the characters that they originally gave Disney.

Pixar is not going to sign a deal giving Disney anywhere near the same merchandising rights to the characters that they originally gave Disney.

So unless Disney has managed to somehow identify a company that can repeat what Pixar has done (GOOD LUCK!) and has signed another sweetheart deal with them - Disney will be losing some cash from their bottom line when the existing Pixar deal expires.

-bruce

hopemax: Very astute - So who plays Oswald this time around - Woody or Buzz? LOL!

 

[KNWVIKING]

OK, that's better.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Pixar is batting 1000%

And how long do you expect this to last? As you said, Walt didn't even have that kind of track record. Sure Lasiter is good...Real good, but don't you guys feel a kind of inexplicaple "sameness" to the Pixar flicks? I do and although I can't put my finger on it, I just felt the 'been there/done that' sensation even while thinking that Finding Nemo is a really, really good movie (particularily its beauty).

I'm not saying Pixar is doomed to fail...Just bound to have a failure sooner or later and it sure would be inopportune to have it be the first flick after leaving the Mouse, IMO...Pixar must have enough reserves to cross that hurdle because when one movie bombs from a small studio like this, the pressure on that next one will be huge! With Disney as their partner the risk of that bomb is not nearly as critical.

Also, how long until Jobs moves his main interest on to other endeavors? He seems to have that history, no?

I think Disney/Pixar will remain. To be sure Pixar's take will be much greater but it won't be the woebegone Lucas type numbers...

 

[KNWVIKING]

My personal belief is that Disney has "turned the corner" so to speak. I think they learned a lot from the failures of Atlantis and TP. Even without Nemo Disney has had a nice string of movies this year.

And if any of the recent financial articles about ABC are accurate, then it appears ABC may start delivering pofit to the bottom line.

I think Disney will survive quite well without Pixar, but I still think ME and Jobs will get together.

 

[Peter Pirate]

...but I still think ME and Jobs will get together.

You may be onto something Viking...Many sick and demented people may actually pay to see this!

 

[KNWVIKING]

Maybe Billy Gates could referee.