What is the Date for All of Kidani to Be Open?

[famsen]

Just wondering what the official completion date is supposed to be for Kidani?
When are all the animals expected to be in place and all the rooms to be completed? Any word if it's al on schedule?

 

[erionm]

Phase II (Pembe Savanna) is reportedly scheduled to open around 9/1. Even if the rooms are done, unless those units have been declared in to the condo association they can't be reserved using points.

 

[drusba]

Long ago they reported that section would open fall 2009. Many have mentioned Sep 1 as the date including because some at MS may have mentioned it. However, we are now at Aug 20 and DVD itself has still not formally confirmed an actual date, so when Pembe and those units actually open is perhaps still unclear.

Unless prior practices have changed and contrary to the above comment, once opened DVC members will be able to occupy them even if the particular units have not been declared into DVC. The total of units declared and sold determines DVC Members percentage of occupancy rights in the building, e.g., if they have sold 50% of the building then DVC members are entitled to reserve 50% of the time and rooms available. However, they do not limit the members' actual occupancy to only units that have been declared into the system and sold. When you make a ressie you can be put into any room that is available for occupancy regardless of whether the applicable unit has actually been declared into DVC yet.

 

[TSMIII]

Long ago they reported that section would open fall 2009. Many have mentioned Sep 1 as the date including because some at MS may have mentioned it. However, we are now at Aug 20 and DVD itself has still not formally confirmed an actual date, so when Pembe and those units actually open is perhaps still unclear.

Unless prior practices have changed and contrary to the above comment, once opened DVC members will be able to occupy them even if the particular units have not been declared into DVC. The total of units declared and sold determines DVC Members percentage of occupancy rights in the building, e.g., if they have sold 50% of the building then DVC members are entitled to reserve 50% of the time and rooms available. However, they do not limit the members' actual occupancy to only units that have been declared into the system and sold. When you make a ressie you can be put into any room that is available for occupancy regardless of whether the applicable unit has actually been declared into DVC yet.

With regard to the text bolded above - As I interpret the Pre-Opening Program, DVC members are not limited to only 50% of the resort for using their points. The entire resort could be reseved on points, regardless of the percentage declared/sold, if DVD was so inclined. It seems that as long as the construction of the accomodations is complete, that part of the resort is open and a C.O. is in hand, then the rooms can be reserved on points.

Thusly, it seems that all of BLT, AKV-KV and SSR-THV could be available on points if they are open and available for reservations.

The description of the program describes that a comparable reservation will be given to DVD in exchange and DVD can then use, assign, transfer or rent the accomodations as it sees fit.

 

[DebbieB]

The way I interpret the pre-opening clause is DVD can project what percentage will be declared for a certain date and open up reservations. For example, next July can be booked for points for home resort members now at AKV. They could open up reservations based on what they project to be declared by that date. I would bet they are conservative with the number because they are paying dues on unsold points and use rooms they send to CRO as income.

 

[TSMIII]

The way I interpret the pre-opening clause is DVD can project what percentage will be declared for a certain date and open up reservations. For example, next July can be booked for points for home resort members now at AKV. They could open up reservations based on what they project to be declared by that date. I would bet they are conservative with the number because they are paying dues on unsold points and use rooms they send to CRO as income.

I don't see any reference in the document to indicate it is based on what they think will be declared, although in practice, you may very well be correct.

Here are some excerpts which seem to indicate that only a certificate of occupancy, completed construction and the resort being open are the requirements for this program (the bold highlighting is mine):

SECTION VI

PREOPENING PROGRAM

DVD has established a special plan called the PreOpening Program (“PreOpening Program"). DVC Members may reserve accommodations at a DVC Resort ("DVC Accommodations") and exchange those accommodations for a reservation of accommodations being constructed by DVD or which have not yet been declared to the condominium form of ownership.

1 All accommodations may not be available at the same time. Availability is based on completion of construction and opening.
SECTION VI (continued)

All confirmed reservations for accommodations are conditioned on a PreOpening Resorts receiving a certificate of occupancy and subject to the PreOpening Points chart in existence at the time of occupancy. Please refer to the applicable PreOpening Points chart. In the event a PreOpening Resort has not received a certificate of occupancy prior to the date of intended occupancy, DVD reserves the right to substitute replacement accommodations as provided herein.


IMO - With the mention of exchanging the Pre-Opening reservation (DVD owned) for the reservation at another DVC resort (member owned), this seems something like the use of developer's points. Except instead of being free, like when purchasing, it seems you are swapping your points for the developer's so that you can stay in the undeclared inventory.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the way it's written it doesn't seem to exclude the possibility.

 

[drusba]

With regard to the text bolded above - As I interpret the Pre-Opening Program, DVC members are not limited to only 50% of the resort for using their points. The entire resort could be reseved on points, regardless of the percentage declared/sold, if DVD was so inclined. It seems that as long as the construction of the accomodations is complete, that part of the resort is open and a C.O. is in hand, then the rooms can be reserved on points.

Thusly, it seems that all of BLT, AKV-KV and SSR-THV could be available on points if they are open and available for reservations.

The description of the program describes that a comparable reservation will be given to DVD in exchange and DVD can then use, assign, transfer or rent the accomodations as it sees fit.

Perhaps I was misunderstood. In a new resort where only part of the units have been declared, you can as a DVC member be put in any rooms in the resort available for occupancy regardless of whether the particular room is in a unit that has been declared into DVC. The 50% example was referring to the division between reservation time available to DVC and reservation time available to DVD for rental. If 50% of the resort has been sold, DVC members can be put in any rooms in the resort but are entitled to only 50% of the total occupancy time for those rooms; DVD is entitled to rent the other 50% of the occupancy time.

 

[TSMIII]

Perhaps I was misunderstood. In a new resort where only part of the units have been declared, you can as a DVC member be put in any rooms in the resort available for occupancy regardless of whether the particular room is in a unit that has been declared into DVC. The 50% example was referring to the division between reservation time available to DVC and reservation time available to DVD for rental. If 50% of the resort has been sold, DVC members can be put in any rooms in the resort but are entitled to only 50% of the total occupancy time for those rooms; DVD is entitled to rent the other 50% of the occupancy time.

Yes, I agree completely with what you have stated, that is my take on it too.

I also feel that the Pre-Opening Program provides DVD with a mechanism that allows them to fill their 50% (i.e. undeclared inventory) with not only cash paying renters via CRO but also with DVC members who are "exchanging" reservations/points.

My earlier analogy of developer points may not have been the best. Perhaps the Disney Collection is a better one. Hotel rooms are not declared inventory of a timeshare but can still be reserved by members using points (along with a $95 fee of course). A member is "exchanging" points from a DVC resort for a reservation/accomodation at a CRO hotel. CRO then gets accomodations at a DVC resort as inventory to rent to a cash paying customer.

It is my contention that once the developer has a certificate of occupancy, the rooms can legally be occupied by anyone including DVC members using points. In other words, it is up to DVD and DVC whether reservations for undeclared inventory can be made by members using points and that the Pre-Opening Program was designed to do just that.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't know if this Preopening Program is mandated by FL timeshare law but its existence seems to facilitate the acceptance of reservations before a unit is ready for occupancy. There was no Certificate of Occupancy for BLT back in February or March when bookings began. But the terms of the Preopening Program which TSMIII quoted give DVC the ability to accept reservations several months before opening.

Beyond that, Debbie has a good point in demonstrating how this program could be used to benefit members. But that argument doesn't jive with the claims of bulk waitlist success as new units are reportedly added to the condo association. I've never heard a definitive answer as to whether rooms are made available for booking at the time they are added to the condo association or if DVC uses sales projections to offer them months in advance.

As for allowing members to book rooms on points which are not part of the condo association, I don't see why DVC would want to do that. They would seemingly be better off renting them to cash guests (even at deep discounts or as free upgrades from another resort) or using the "Developer's Points" as a sales incentive. Legally they could probably do it but there doesn't seem to be any economic advantage for DVD/DVC.

 

[wdrl]

As for allowing members to book rooms on points which are not part of the condo association, I don't see why DVC would want to do that. They would seemingly be better off renting them to cash guests (even at deep discounts or as free upgrades from another resort) or using the "Developer's Points" as a sales incentive. Legally they could probably do it but there doesn't seem to be any economic advantage for DVD/DVC.

In my reading of the BLT Declaration of Condominium, DVD could not legally let DVC book more than the total number of accommodations that have been declared for the DVC. Here is what is stated in the BLT Declaration of Condominium, Exhibit G, part III, section 3.7 about reciprocal use by DVD and Club Members: At any given time, DVD may own completed Vacation Homes which have not yet been committed to the Vacation Ownership Plan for various reasons. In order to provide Club Members with the greatest possible flexibility in making reservation requests, Club Members may be assigned to occupy both Vacation Homes which are associated with the Vacation Ownership Plan and completed accommodations which have not yet been committed to the Vacation Ownership Plan; however,the total number of accommodations available for Club Member reservation for any given Use Day will never exceed the total number of Vacation Homes existing within the Vacation Ownership Plan on that Use Day. Conversely, DVD may assign its renters or other users of the completed accommodations which have not yet been committed to the Vacation Ownership Plan to occupy both those Vacation Homes which are committed to the Vacation Ownership Plan and those accommodations which are not; however,the number of total Vacation Homes available for DVD renter/user reservation for any given Use Day will never exceed the total number of completed accommodations which have not yet been committed to the Vacation Ownership Plan on that Use Day. In addition, completed accommodations which have not yet been committed to the Vacation Ownership Plan may be available through rental or an incidental benefit plan offered by DVD.

This reciprocity clause permits DVD to assign club members to rooms that have not yet been declared. This is happening at BLT right now, where members are being assigned rooms on the 8th through 12th floor even though those specific rooms have not yet been declared for the DVC. But since just less than half of the rooms have been declared for the DVC, I believe this reciprocity clause limits DVC members to that number of rooms on each and every Use Day.

I haven't read the AKV Declaration, so I don't know if it has a similarly worded reciprocity clause in it. But since DVD tends to use the same paperwork for all of its resorts, I suspect that it does. Of course, since AKV is still under construction, the language in the Pre-Opening clause mentioned in the PP may preempt this reciprocity clause.