What is going on with Disney parks?

[hertamaniac]

I can’t see Universal ever doing significant damage to Disney because the parks don’t offer a wide enough array of attractions for everyone. Im a huge Universal fan, was going once a year, but now I’m taking a few years break since I have to pay for my little ones admissions. $100+ is way too much to pay for the limited things they can do. Disney will never have that problem.

Oh....I don't think it will be significant damage at all. I think they will coexist fine and there is a market for each. But, the new park should have an effect (adverse) even if it's only 1% of the Orlando market share (number made up). If I recall correctly, when VB opened it pulled some of the MS away from Disney, but it wasn't much.

 

[clarker99]

Why would no one come back for Rat, Tron, GotG, EPCOT, Tomorrowland refurb.,etc.? Why would you think Disney is doomed?

I am not as confident as you that Nintendo World won't be wall to wall people with ride down time. I am not sure that Universal would drop ticket prices for a 10 hr. Mario Kart line, but not saying it couldn't happen.

If you were being sarcastic, I am not sure that is in alignment with these boards rules. But, if it is allowed then I am more than happy to open those floodgates and respond back to you, appropriately. For now, I'll stay in a holding pattern with my point standing about negative WDW experiences can compound into guests expenditures outside of WDW.

It was (apparently poor) sarcasm. My only point is that Disney is gonna be more than fine. Still more people having good experiences than bad. Epic Universe will be awesome and both companies will make insane profits.

 

[Searc]

I think you’re misunderstanding what I was saying. I’m not saying that DS may not end up enjoying the parks as they are. I’m saying if we stop going b/c we (DH & I) no longer enjoy it, then it won’t end up being a part of his life.

It's ok if it isn't. Millions of kids grow up never going to DL or WDW for lots of different reasons, all of them valid.

 

[Searc]

That’s exact what I’m saying. 10 years ago, that shorter trip during value season with free dining was almost 10% of yearly income. That doesn’t seem outrageous, as I’ve seen that 10% is typically what the average American family spends on vacation. With where we are at now, the longer, “more expensive” vacation is actually a lesser percentage of our income.

That ~$8400 number I gave earlier was including the cost of flights, since I bought the flights 10 years ago in my example. It actuality, I’m getting 4 free flights based on airline/credit card points so the net cost for me is closer to $6,800 (or less than 6% of our income now). Much better value now, especially considering all that had been added over the years. I’m not sure there was a time over the past 10 years that we thought we didn’t get our money’s worth, or enjoyed it fully.

Thats just my perspective based our our family and situation, and while I realize most don’t enjoy the All-Stars, it works for us. The kids prefer them to others we’ve stayed due to theming, and we don’t spend enough time at the resort to worry much one way or the other.

For comparison, we can go to Hawaii from the middle of the country for twelve days, flying first class for about $9000 for two people.

 

[dlavender]

Ah I see.

As for DVC, resort price increases are irrelevant.

And since we first purchased they added ME, and we also get to reserve at BLT (although we added on there), AKL, GF and POLY.

Those are amazing unexpected perks.

As for the parks. Since we first bought they have added.

7 Dwarfs, B&B Castle, L Mermaid, HEA and Tron.

T Track, M Space, Soarin, F&W, Frozen, GotGalxy Coaster, Rat, Gondola.

RnR coaster, TSMania, TSL Land-Slink-Alien SS, M&M Raway RR, Star Wars Land.

P Whirl, E Everest, F Nemo, ToL Awakenings, R of Light, Pandora Land-FoPassage-Navi River.

And all of D Springs which we now do about 3 times each week.

We do most of these with FP+ so crowds aren't that important, and we also get a lot done in smaller windows.

Not stripped down for us.

That's nice, but you did pay 64% more for your DVC annual Gold pass or 84% more for your DVC Platinum pass than you did before those were built......

And how much have dues gone up? 30% in that time frame?

Everyone pays......

 

[LSUmiss]

It's ok if it isn't. Millions of kids grow up never going to DL or WDW for lots of different reasons, all of them valid.

No I’m good with it too. The point of that conversation was in response to @Farro who said that nostalgia will fade with generations so wdw may be getting away with pushing the limits now b/c ppl keep coming back despite it being less than magical.

 

[Nancyg56]

This got way off track from my original point, which simply was that there is a fan base that will be unable to visit to the extent we previously had. Obviously they are not struggling to get the business but the landscape of the vacations are changing.

for my family personally, the price increases mean it won’t be the annual trip we’ve come to look forward to and like more and more families a once every few years situation.

This has always been the case. I grew up knowing I could never visit DLR. It was not in my parents budget, and certainly not where they would choose to spend their discretionary money. I also never went on any vacation that involved air travel. As an adult I was only able to take my children to WDW one time, and that was because my fiance paid for it. We never had the funds for that kind of vacation after that. My son in law grew up in FL and spend less than one full day in WDW. His parents could nto justify the cost.

There always has been, and will always be people who either cannot or will not purchase a WDW vacation. On this board we sometimes lose sight of that, and when we look at increased prices, reduced value for the money, etc, we look at it though our own personal spending comfort zone.

 

[dlavender]

I"ll raise my hand as one of the hypocrites.

I said last year we were done with AP's after the insane increase. However, my mom bought all of us 4 day tickets for DD's birthday last year, and I took the opportunity to convert them into AP's since we were already half way there. I knew we wouldn't get AP's that cheap again, so I did it.

I can for sure, tell you now, that even with that "discount" again, we won't ever get another AP. It's sad to type out or say, but its true. Even with our AP now, we don't go as much as everything there is also so much more expensive. We can't stay onsite anymore unless I get lucky on priceline (which btw, for the "off seasons" there is definitely a sign that the resorts are overpriced. Why else would I get POFQ for $99/night?!). We can't get FP's for anything worthwhile if we go on a "whim". I've tried and tried. My expectations have risen with the rise in cost, and WDW is lagging.

We are luckier than most. We've gone more times than most. But we will now be buying FL resident 3 day passes as long as they stay priced where they are now, every other year. Still being hypocritical in a sense, but also vastly cutting down our Disney. I don't begrudge anyone who still sees the value. But, as a wise man once said, we will pay for those who are priced out until we ourselves are priced out. I just shifted to the latter....

 

[ChipnDale79]

It wasn't always easy to do that with the old paper fastpasses, either. You'd show up at DHS at rope drop and get a TSMM fastpass for 4pm and be stuck there all day.

that's why i think there needs to be some middle ground between the old and new system.

You could have bounced to another park and then came back to DHS for your 4pm fast pass also. I believe it was after 2 hours, but you could have got another fast pass for somewhere else.

 

[jade1]

That's nice, but you did pay 64% more for your DVC annual Gold pass or 84% more for your DVC Platinum pass than you did before those were built......

And how much have dues gone up? 30% in that time frame?

Everyone pays......

Well my DVC AP Hopper renewal was less than a current 6 Day Hopper so not too concerned.

Dues really not relevant either. The asset value has far outpaced dues. My guess is resales are up 100% across the board from even 5 years ago.

Then factor in how much cash room rates have gone up as well.


Regardless. There is no way I would choose dropping my dues to what they were, the value of the asset to what it was, and my AP cost to what its was-in exchange to remove:


AKL, GF and POLY.

7 Dwarfs, B&B Castle, L Mermaid, HEA and Tron.

T Track, M Space, Soarin, F&W, Frozen, GotGalxy Coaster, Rat, Gondola.

RnR coaster, TSMania, TSL Land-Slink-Alien SS, M&M Raway RR, Star Wars Land.

P Whirl, E Everest, F Nemo, ToL Awakenings, R of Light, Pandora Land-FoPassage-Navi River.

And all of D Springs.

 

[mvk]

For comparison, we can go to Hawaii from the middle of the country for twelve days, flying first class for about $9000 for two people.

OK, what’s your point?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This got way off track from my original point, which simply was that there is a fan base that will be unable to visit to the extent we previously had. Obviously they are not struggling to get the business but the landscape of the vacations are changing.

for my family personally, the price increases mean it won’t be the annual trip we’ve come to look forward to and like more and more families a once every few years situation.

That happens every single year regardless. Certainly rapid increases in short amount of time (like several years) can speed up that happening.

Honestly though aside from any price increases some people just phase out of going to Disney as frequently as before be it because they hit the age 3 mark where they need to purchase tickets, be it they reach the age 10 mark where their kid is now considered a Disney adult for park tickets and the Dining Plan OR they stop purchasing the Dining Plan when that happens or they realize they don't want or need the buffets like in the past (which many find make the Dining Plan worth it when you still have Disney kids), where their interests change and shift in terms of vacation destinations, or life circumstances make it so Disney isn't quite the destination place it was before (mobility, disability, etc) and one finds a different destination easier, etc.

I can understand though from your perspective it's disappointing that you would feel the need to go less often due to budget constraints.

 

[dlavender]

Well my DVC AP Hopper renewal was less than a current 6 Day Hopper so not too concerned.

Dues really not relevant either. The asset value has far outpaced dues. My guess is resales are up 100% across the board from even 5 years ago.

Then factor in how much cash room rates have gone up as well.


Regardless. There is no way I would choose dropping my dues to what they were, the value of the asset to what it was, and my AP cost to what its was-in exchange to remove:


AKL, GF and POLY.

7 Dwarfs, B&B Castle, L Mermaid, HEA and Tron.

T Track, M Space, Soarin, F&W, Frozen, GotGalxy Coaster, Rat, Gondola.

RnR coaster, TSMania, TSL Land-Slink-Alien SS, M&M Raway RR, Star Wars Land.

P Whirl, E Everest, F Nemo, ToL Awakenings, R of Light, Pandora Land-FoPassage-Navi River.

And all of D Springs.

Yes, prices went up across the board..Point is, even after plunking down $10k to lock in great rates, they still get you....

And cash rooms have skyrocketed. Any coincidence that DVC has taken over the deluxes? Nothing to do with over inflated cash pricing?

It's not an asset............

Especially when the clock hits 2050.........

Remove Poly? Can you clarify what you mean? Prices went up so Poly could get built? In the last 10 years? Could have sworn that was there when I was a kid....

I'm glad you see the parks as being 60-80% better than they were 10 years ago.

ETA: Are you claiming that resale has gone up 100% in 5 years?!

A quick google search kills that....

 

[jade1]

Yes, prices went up across the board..Point is, even after plunking down $10k to lock in great rates, they still get you....

And cash rooms have skyrocketed. Any coincidence that DVC has taken over the deluxes? Nothing to do with over inflated cash pricing?

It's not an asset............

Especially when the clock hits 2050.........

Remove Poly? Can you clarify what you mean? Prices went up so Poly could get built? In the last 10 years? Could have sworn that was there when I was a kid....

I'm glad you see the parks as being 60-80% better than they were 10 years ago.

It's not an asset when I can sell it today for triple of what I paid?

I had mentioned the "additions" POLY, AK, GF and CR (BLT) as well as Riviera and Reflections as unexpected options we can now use.
Going back to old pricing would mean those options would go away.

As would all of those attractions.


So you are wondering which I would choose

For an additional $300 option to the AP you can also enjoy-NOT AVAILABLE WITH STANDARD AP.

Pandora Land FoP-Navi, Expedition Everest, RoL
Star Wars Land-RotR-M Falcon, Toy Story Mania, Toy Story Land-Slink Coaster-Aliens, M&MRRR, RNR Coaster
7 Dwarfs Coaster, Tron Coaster,
T Track, M Space, Soarin, GotG Coaster, Rat,
Disney Springs

I would choose to add on the $300 option.

 

[dlavender]

It's not an asset when I can sell it today for triple of what I paid?

I had mentioned the "additions" POLY, AK, GF and CR (BLT) as well as Riviera and Reflections as unexpected options we can now use.
Going back to old pricing would mean those options would go away.

As would all of those attractions.


So you are wondering which I would choose

For an additional $300 option to the AP you can also enjoy-NOT AVAILABLE WITH STANDARD AP.

Pandora Land FoP-Navi, Expedition Everest, RoL
Star Wars Land-RotR-M Falcon, Toy Story Mania, Toy Story Land-Slink Coaster-Aliens, M&MRRR, RNR Coaster
7 Dwarfs Coaster, Tron Coaster,
T Track, M Space, Soarin, GotG Coaster, Rat,
Disney Springs

I would choose to add on the $300 option.

I’m glad you think the additions are worth the extra $300 per year.

And do you think someone buying direct today or resale today will see an appreciation of 100%?

And again, financially speaking, it’s not an asset.

Are you saying they raised prices to build poly DVC? I missed that article... Did they give those out or did they still sell them?

 

[disneyseniors]

For comparison, we can go to Hawaii from the middle of the country for twelve days, flying first class for about $9000 for two people.

Yes, it's crazy isn't it,, when you compare. My grandson and his wife are going to honeymoon on K'uai (sp?_) for a week at a condo 3 minutes from the ocean. It is one bedroom, bath, kitchen, living room and lanai. It is part of a resort complex so there are nice restaurants, pools, etc. With their air fare from Minnesota it will total about $5000.00!!! They got a great deal on air fare, and since they don't care about waterfront, that was cheaper too. They still have to rent a car, pay for food and extras, but what a deal! It floors me that our trip which has been downsized due to the increases, to 7 1/2 days at POFQ with air fare is about $5000.00. Not counting food and extras either. To think we could have gone to Hawaii for about the same for flight and condo blows my mind. We used to go to WDW for 10 days but have been paring it back with all the increases over the past few years.

 

[jade1]

I’m glad you think the additions are worth the extra $300 per year.

Yes, those Attractions and Lands are worth $300 a year to me-actually a week.

I doubt many folks would eliminate the whole list completely for $300 a year.

And do you think someone buying direct today or resale today will see an appreciation of 100%?

Somebody asks that questions every year. Oh well what about buying today? Nobody knows, but I can tell you many people missed the boat on DVC, even the last couple years and by far the last 5 or 7-because they just didn't believe it would be worth it. I would still buy a resale today if I didn't have any DVC and was planning to go pretty much every year or 2.

What I can say is paying cash anywhere is a 100% Loss.

And again, financially speaking, it’s not an asset.

OK I will hold my non asset a while longer, instead of using assets to pay for cash stays.

 

[dlavender]

Yes, those Attractions and Lands are worth $300 a year to me-actually a week.

I doubt many folks would eliminate the whole list completely for $300 a year.



Somebody asks that questions every year. Oh well what about buying today? Nobody knows, but I can tell you many people missed the boat on DVC, even the last couple years and by far the last 5 or 7-because they just didn't believe it would be worth it. I would still but a resale today if I didn't have any DVC and was planning to go pretty much every year or 2.

What I can say is paying cash anywhere is a 100% Loss.



OK I will hold my non asset a while longer, instead of using assets to pay for cash stays.

Again, glad you think $300 extra every year on tickets is worth it. You aren’t alone.

Just make sure you get rid of that “asset” before 2035. They aren’t gonna hold past that.....and by 2045 you might have to pay someone to take that “asset”.

To be clear I’m not knocking DVC per say. But I’m pointing out that unless someone has a time machine, it doesn't do much good to bring up today’s value based off of something someone bought in 2012 to hedge against it. That’s like me saying “I bought $10k worth of non expiring tickets in 2002, so today I visit for $20/day. What are y’all complaining about?!”

ETA: if you strongly believe that resale will double, Id have my entire retirement locked up in it. Why not? 100% return in just 5 years? That’s a no brainer.....

 

[kymom99]

Yes, it's crazy isn't it,, when you compare. My grandson and his wife are going to honeymoon on K'uai (sp?_) for a week at a condo 3 minutes from the ocean. It is one bedroom, bath, kitchen, living room and lanai. It is part of a resort complex so there are nice restaurants, pools, etc. With their air fare from Minnesota it will total about $5000.00!!! They got a great deal on air fare, and since they don't care about waterfront, that was cheaper too. They still have to rent a car, pay for food and extras, but what a deal! It floors me that our trip which has been downsized due to the increases, to 7 1/2 days at POFQ with air fare is about $5000.00. Not counting food and extras either. To think we could have gone to Hawaii for about the same for flight and condo blows my mind. We used to go to WDW for 10 days but have been paring it back with all the increases over the past few years.

I keep pricing trips and have come to the conclusion that a shorter trip is what is going to have to happen for us to be able to go back. Going from 8 nights in the past down to 4. What a coincidence, they are now offering a 4 day ticket special. Maybe they are seeing a trend of guests staying less days and are increasing prices to get the most out of them as possible. IDK

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

Yes, it's crazy isn't it,, when you compare. My grandson and his wife are going to honeymoon on K'uai (sp?_) for a week at a condo 3 minutes from the ocean. It is one bedroom, bath, kitchen, living room and lanai. It is part of a resort complex so there are nice restaurants, pools, etc. With their air fare from Minnesota it will total about $5000.00!!! They got a great deal on air fare, and since they don't care about waterfront, that was cheaper too. They still have to rent a car, pay for food and extras, but what a deal! It floors me that our trip which has been downsized due to the increases, to 7 1/2 days at POFQ with air fare is about $5000.00. Not counting food and extras either. To think we could have gone to Hawaii for about the same for flight and condo blows my mind. We used to go to WDW for 10 days but have been paring it back with all the increases over the past few years.

How much are you paying for airfare? Port Orleans shouldn’t be that expensive for 7 nights at a standard room. My relatives are going there for a week in September and with 8 day tickets and air it’s a little over 3000. I still think that’s a lot but I’ve always thought the moderates and deluxe resorts were too much for the amount of time that I spend there and I’ve been going consistently since 2009.