What is going on with Disney parks?

[disneygirlsng]

It is the opposite for me. Fastpass+ is pretty useless if you stay offsite, and they have made so many rides and "attractions" fastpass that would have never needed it. The whole tier system is stupid.

Yea, I've had no problems getting the FPs I want when staying offsite either.

 

[mom2rtk]

How do you figure? We had no issue getting 30 day FP and they were very worthwhile.

That's encouraging! Which headliners were you scheduling at 30 days out?

 

[mshanson3121]

That's encouraging! Which headliners were you scheduling at 30 days out?

Oie I gotta think back what we FP+...

MK: 7D, Splash, Townhall Mickey, Peter Pan...the other two I don't remember but they were low key, I think Buzz and Tiana/Rapunzel.

HS: TSMM and Saucers no problem. SDD was gone of course.

AK: Lion King, Safari, Na'Vi. FOP was gone.

EP: Frozen, and I don't even know if we bothered making the other two.

 

[mom2rtk]

Oie I gotta think back what we FP+...

MK: 7D, Splash, Townhall Mickey, Peter Pan...the other two I don't remember but they were low key, I think Buzz and Tiana/Rapunzel.

HS: TSMM and Saucers no problem. SDD was gone of course.

AK: Lion King, Safari, Na'Vi. FOP was gone.

EP: Frozen, and I don't even know if we bothered making the other two.

So sort of a mixed bag. We definitely want SDD and FoP.

Maybe I have you confused with someone else, but didn't you stay onsite for your last trip? Why the 30 days? Or did you just book too late?

 

[Airb330]

You bring up a great point that up til now hasn't been mentioned ~ the absolute suckage of Disney IT and daily exercise in frustration in trying to use MDE. Unreliable tech is a big issue, especially when 100% of your vacation is dependent on that tech working correctly.

Yep! While my post mentioned a few things, you're right, most of my frustration is with Disney IT. It's almost to a breaking point. For example, my FP+ day was Tuesday. I managed to get 2 FP+ in 22 minutes. I kept getting errors or blank screens; luckily I managed to get FOP for our Thanksgiving trip. I had to have my husband do them on a macbook, because the app just wasn't working right. Now, 2 days later, the opposite is true for me. I cannot do ANYTHING on the website, but the app is fine. In fact, the website now says I have no Annual Pass and has booted me off all fastpasses (it isn't true, the app shows everything correctly).

Imagine being a 1st or 2nd time visitor and you're having all of these website and app issues? You aren't rushing for another trip. And frankly, I am dreading planning a multi-family trip in March because of the IT issues. I haven't even bothered to book dining reservations because I am over the BS. I cannot even add people to the reservation because of website glitches, and I don't even show up on the reservation! DL planning isn't ridiculous and WDW shouldn't be either. It's been 7 years, fix the entire system already or start over.

 

[mshanson3121]

So sort of a mixed bag. We definitely want SDD and FoP.

Maybe I have you confused with someone else, but didn't you stay onsite for your last trip? Why the 30 days? Or did you just book too late?

We did stay on site, but we changed tickets (added a couple days) and basically changed all our plans right around the 30 day mark, I think we might actually have been 28 days out when I redid our FP+. I will say, on-site was no benefit for SDD (for us) - it was gone at the 60 day mark, for both of the days I was considering. FOP was gone at the 60 day mark, too, that said - for that one, I didn't look ahead further in the trip to see if I could get it, just looked for the day I knew we were going to be at AK, as I wasn't flexible with that day. So, I may have been able to score that one for later in the trip.

 

[Tink-osophy]

...DL planning isn't ridiculous and WDW shouldn't be either. It's been 7 years, fix the entire system already or start over. ...

Well said.

 

[billlaurie]

We don't visit frequently so the difference in experience from our June 2019 trip compared to Feb 2012 was striking! Reduced hours, parking upcharges, paid events that have devalued the regular ticket, crowds, longer lines, multiple paid events that made rope drop and closing a different experience, reduced areas to view fireworks, etc, due to paid parties and such, increased prices on everything including food, merchandise and decreased quality (example husband bought a tshirt that shrunk up to nothing), the advanced planning now required, and having to be glued to your phone to get additional FP, which IMO reduces the overall experience because I want to disconnect while on vacation. We are coming again in Dec because we had tickets to Universal that still have two days to use before the end of the year and we decided it would be nice to see Disney too at Christmas. We decided to purchase a Christmas Party ticket because MK closes early practically every single day. But apparently that is not enough to see the parades and fireworks, you have to purchase another upcharge to get a good spot! The dining at 180 days and changes in hours after is also frustrating. I made reservations based on going to AK on a certain day only to have a DAK recently added on that day. I know people say on these boards that it doesn't impact the regular ticket but I want the experience of "closing" the park. So now I am trying to switch my dining reservations around so I can swap my AK and HS days and have had to sign up for a TP reservation finder to get what I want on the days/times that I want it. Then I have to hope it is worked out by my FP day in 2 weeks so all the stars align. This whole process should be simpler. Except for this year, we don't come that often so it doesn't impact the frequency of my visits but it does impact what I tell others who are contemplating a first time trip. I used to gush over Disney, but not so much anymore.

 

[tlmadden73]

DL planning isn't ridiculous and WDW shouldn't be either. It's been 7 years, fix the entire system already or start over.

I will say this -- when I went to WDW for a short trip for the SWGE AP preview, it was so relaxing and flexible. Since we booked last minute we had 0 ADRs .. and a few fast passes we grabbed only a few weeks in advance. We just sorta winged it through a short trip. (Granted that was easy to do since we had already been there in March and last November). Our morning in SWGE with no reservation except Savi's was just fun and relaxing, just checking out what we wanted when we wanted at our own pace. We hit MFSR twice as the wait times fluctuated during the morning, we ate at Docking Bay 7 with minimal wait (didn't even Mobile Order).

The rest of the trip we just winged it with FPs I was able to grab a few weeks before we left. With no "reservation" pressure, we ate when we were hungry, we went on rides that were nearby, and spent time doing things like Sorceror's of the Magic Kingdom and stopping to watch the Royal Friendship Faire show .. because we stumbled upon it while walking by.

That's how it should be .. not worrying about getting to reservation X by a certain time and stressing out the more leisurely members of your party. We decided where we were going to eat the day of .. even just winging it by going to AKL for a meal there.

I'm torn .. with young kids, I've enjoyed FP+ knowing we can skip lines, but it only seems to work at MK due to the sheer number of attractions there (I mean .. really .. why is there even FPs for half the stuff at Epcot likeTurtle Talk with Crush, Nemo and Friends or the Pixar shorts theatre?). I enjoy having dining reservations knowing that we can get seated somewhat immediately without having to waste 30+ minutes with hungry kids waiting for a table.

I just don't like doing it months in advance. Let everyone do all reservations day of .. The technology is there now with pretty much EVERYONE having smart phones and free wi-fi.

When trying to help friends/family plan a trip, I worry they will get overwhelmed and stressed from the time management needed to "enjoy" their vacation.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I will say this -- when I went to WDW for a short trip for the SWGE AP preview, it was so relaxing and flexible. Since we booked last minute we had 0 ADRs .. and a few fast passes we grabbed only a few weeks in advance. We just sorta winged it through a short trip. (Granted that was easy to do since we had already been there in March and last November). Our morning in SWGE with no reservation except Savi's was just fun and relaxing, just checking out what we wanted when we wanted at our own pace. We hit MFSR twice as the wait times fluctuated during the morning, we ate at Docking Bay 7 with minimal wait (didn't even Mobile Order).

The rest of the trip we just winged it with FPs I was able to grab a few weeks before we left. With no "reservation" pressure, we ate when we were hungry, we went on rides that were nearby, and spent time doing things like Sorceror's of the Magic Kingdom and stopping to watch the Royal Friendship Faire show .. because we stumbled upon it while walking by.

That's how it should be .. not worrying about getting to reservation X by a certain time and stressing out the more leisurely members of your party. We decided where we were going to eat the day of .. even just winging it by going to AKL for a meal there.

I'm torn .. with young kids, I've enjoyed FP+ knowing we can skip lines, but it only seems to work at MK due to the sheer number of attractions there (I mean .. really .. why is there even FPs for half the stuff at Epcot likeTurtle Talk with Crush, Nemo and Friends or the Pixar shorts theatre?). I enjoy having dining reservations knowing that we can get seated somewhat immediately without having to waste 30+ minutes with hungry kids waiting for a table.

I just don't like doing it months in advance. Let everyone do all reservations day of .. The technology is there now with pretty much EVERYONE having smart phones and free wi-fi.

When trying to help friends/family plan a trip, I worry they will get overwhelmed and stressed from the time management needed to "enjoy" their vacation.

When Disney announced the change to FP+ way back, it was all about locking people into their plans. The advanced planning forces people to buy their tickets before they arrive in Orlando (I think this is particularly a big deal for offsite guests who could be “tempted” to spend more time doing non disney things while down there) and it also helps people commit their days to Disney because they’re going down with a plan already. The advanced planning can also help them with staffing and predicting crowds.

I would be shocked if they rolled it back. Disneyland is a different animal because of the much higher number of locals who aren’t planning trips with as much notice as WDW guests.

 

[mom2rtk]

I will say this -- when I went to WDW for a short trip for the SWGE AP preview, it was so relaxing and flexible. Since we booked last minute we had 0 ADRs .. and a few fast passes we grabbed only a few weeks in advance. We just sorta winged it through a short trip. (Granted that was easy to do since we had already been there in March and last November). Our morning in SWGE with no reservation except Savi's was just fun and relaxing, just checking out what we wanted when we wanted at our own pace. We hit MFSR twice as the wait times fluctuated during the morning, we ate at Docking Bay 7 with minimal wait (didn't even Mobile Order).

The rest of the trip we just winged it with FPs I was able to grab a few weeks before we left. With no "reservation" pressure, we ate when we were hungry, we went on rides that were nearby, and spent time doing things like Sorceror's of the Magic Kingdom and stopping to watch the Royal Friendship Faire show .. because we stumbled upon it while walking by.

That's how it should be .. not worrying about getting to reservation X by a certain time and stressing out the more leisurely members of your party. We decided where we were going to eat the day of .. even just winging it by going to AKL for a meal there.

I'm torn .. with young kids, I've enjoyed FP+ knowing we can skip lines, but it only seems to work at MK due to the sheer number of attractions there (I mean .. really .. why is there even FPs for half the stuff at Epcot likeTurtle Talk with Crush, Nemo and Friends or the Pixar shorts theatre?). I enjoy having dining reservations knowing that we can get seated somewhat immediately without having to waste 30+ minutes with hungry kids waiting for a table.

I just don't like doing it months in advance. Let everyone do all reservations day of .. The technology is there now with pretty much EVERYONE having smart phones and free wi-fi.

When trying to help friends/family plan a trip, I worry they will get overwhelmed and stressed from the time management needed to "enjoy" their vacation.

To do that relaxed pace though, you have to be OK with possibly missing some of the headliner stuff. For someone who only goes once a year or once every other year, that might not be acceptable after paying top dollar to be there. That's an entirely different calculus for someone who's there 3 times a year.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

To do that relaxed pace though, you have to be OK with possibly missing some of the headliner stuff. For someone who only goes once a year or once every other year, that might not be acceptable after paying top dollar to be there. That's an entirely different calculus for someone who's there 3 times a year.

Yup.

And a big part of that particular relaxed trip is almost definitely the lack of FP+ in GE at the moment. There’s no way that land will be as relaxing once ROTR opens and FP+ is added in. Add it to the list of mega headliners (at least ROTR) that will require some planning to ride.

 

[TwoMisfits]

To do that relaxed pace though, you have to be OK with possibly missing some of the headliner stuff. For someone who only goes once a year or once every other year, that might not be acceptable after paying top dollar to be there. That's an entirely different calculus for someone who's there 3 times a year.

And if you're skipping the headliners at each park (or stuck waiting hours in standby for them, so you miss 1/2 the other rides), you're dropping down to a Six Flags valued ticket...which is not the price of a 1 day Disney ticket...

 

[tlmadden73]

To do that relaxed pace though, you have to be OK with possibly missing some of the headliner stuff. For someone who only goes once a year or once every other year, that might not be acceptable after paying top dollar to be there. That's an entirely different calculus for someone who's there 3 times a year.

Agreed. Doing it "relaxed" you have to sacrifice some things. So this year, I opted for an AP and going several times in shorter trips (3-4 park days) to do it "all" gradually then one giant stressful trip. So despite not getting a FP for SDD next month, we'll probably just go the EEMH and wait it out. I just have that ability (only one kid in school, one kid free (under 3), WDW only a day's drive away, etc.).

The only way to get around that problem of FPs and headliners is either:
1) Ditch the FP system all together (not likely) (or ditch it for certain rides (like they are doing for MFSR)
2) Make FPs not scheduled and just done day of (similar to DL). (I think this could work, but some would NOT like the day of stress that adds)
3) Tier more attractions (like they do at Epcot and now at DHS) .. even then though .. the "best" ride will always be the one hardest to get (as SDD is now).
4) Make the headliners a "paid" FP (which will reduce demand for them) .. or pay for the ability to schedule them more than 60 days in advance. I think they will in the future -- because it is pretty obvious people WANT to skip the long lines and may be willing to pay for it (as is evidenced by the Early Morning Magic).
5) Increase the number of FPs and make an attraction FP only (like they tested with TSMM years ago) .. where everyone schedules their time to ride the ride. No standby line at all.

Personally I think MFSR shows that just NOT having FP for a new and high-demand attraction works pretty well. Maybe they should just not do FPs for attractions for the first year or two of their existence. How short would the FOP line be if there was no FP?

And if you're skipping the headliners at each park (or stuck waiting hours in standby for them, so you miss 1/2 the other rides), you're dropping down to a Six Flags valued ticket...which is not the price of a 1 day Disney ticket...

How would Disney fix this problem though? Lower the ticket price? Then the parks would be even more crowded and lines even longer.

And a big part of that particular relaxed trip is almost definitely the lack of FP+ in GE at the moment. There’s no way that land will be as relaxing once ROTR opens and FP+ is added in. Add it to the list of mega headliners (at least ROTR) that will require some planning to ride.

Agreed, I hope they continue to have both rides FP free come december (or at least just ROTR) It seems to have worked pretty well for MFSR ( currently at a lesser wait than FOP, SDMT and Test Track). Giving everyone an equal opportunity to experience the new attraction without feeling "blocked" by inflated wait times due to hundreds of people skipping the line in front of you because they had a longer resort stay than you (and thus was able to get a FP for it).

 

[The Pho]

1) Ditch the FP system all together (not likely) (or ditch it for certain rides (like they are doing for MFSR)
2) Make FPs not scheduled and just done day of (similar to DL). (I think this could work, but some would NOT like the day of stress that adds)

I think the best option is still a hybrid system, let people plan if they want but hold back enough fastpasses to release obtainable amounts same day. I know I’m generally still able to get fastpasses for everything day of, but others seem to have much more trouble. Holding 20-30% of the passes for day of could solve that issue and make more people happy, so then they’ll spend more.

 

[disneygirlsng]

That's encouraging! Which headliners were you scheduling at 30 days out?

My last 3 offsite trips were Jan 2018 (arrived on NYE), May 2018 (booked 3 days before I was there), and March 2019 (spring break). I got FOP and SDMT for all 3 trips. SDD was not open for the first 2, but I was able to get it about a week out from my trip earlier this year. I also got an SDD about 21 days out from my onsite trip in June this year when it was not available at 60+1 for a morning time when I initially booked.

 

[TheFloatingBear]

For me, it's generally the reduced park hours/staffing and entertainment cuts that are eroding value for me. The entertainment cuts over the years chip away the magic, but I imagine first time visitors don't have a comparison. The reduced hours, I feel, have had a big impact for us. It really squishes the crowds, and nullifies much of the benefit to rope drop and/or closing. And it makes it tough to make an afternoon break feasible, depending upon our plans. Our last trip in August, MK hours were 9-10 all week, with one EMH until midnight (I think one am EMH too).

So, my strategy when I go to WDW, or anywhere else, is to do a lot of research so I know my options in order to roll with things and be more flexible. I have found in my last few trips to WDW that when unexpected things occur, such as ride closures, weather, crankiness among the ranks, it just seems much tougher to pivot, and certainly the shorter park hours and even entertainment cuts contribute to that, in my opinion.

I do believe that Disney is not considering the long-term effects on the brand. Now, this is completely anecdotal and really just my observations over time, but Disney has much more competition now for vacation dollars, and around me, they are not winning the battle. I live in a fairly affluent small town - but definitely a range of middle class - in New England, so an easy flight to WDW but most people do fly (I just say that because most people here will consider the cost of flying to go to Disney, like they would many other vacation destinations).

But just like people rave about vacation home rentals to decrease costs of visiting WDW, vacation rentals have also opened up affordability to lots of other destinations. After school/summer vacations, I'll hear about some trips to Disney, but more to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, Europe, National Parks, etc. And again, these are generally middle class families, not super wealthy. And when I do hear about Disney trips, the parents often talk about it as if it was something they had to endure, not enjoy! Like, the kids enjoyed it, but thank goodness we never have to do that again! Or they just wait the kids out until they outgrow asking to go! I would think Disney would not want to cultivate that kind of reputation over the long term.

The first time my husband and I took our kids was 2009 - neither of us had been since we were kids. The kids had a blast, and importantly, we as parents had a blast, so we kept going. Our family has had many trips in the last ten years, and has built nostalgia with WDW, and memories over time, and our kids are fully WDW "indoctrinated", so to speak. We still enjoy that we have old favorites on trips and always find something new, and as WDW trips have become more complicated, my "skill set" has increased to keep up, since we do still enjoy it at this point. And again, this is totally just my observations, but I don't see a lot of families like mine around me and that seems rather short-sighted.

 

[Brianstl]

So, my strategy when I go to WDW, or anywhere else, is to do a lot of research so I know my options in order to roll with things and be more flexible. I have found in my last few trips to WDW that when unexpected things occur, such as ride closures, weather, crankiness among the ranks, it just seems much tougher to pivot, and certainly the shorter park hours and even entertainment cuts contribute to that, in my opinion.

Being flexible and rolling with things is the key. I think all the planning that we do before the trip makes us think that everything has to go on schedule as planned. On my last trip I found myself getting really stressed by day three until I reminded myself where I was and that things didn't need to go as planned to have a great time. The technology and planning that is supposed to make are lives easier and less stressful more often than not has the exact opposite effect. We need to remind ourselves that things don't have to go as planned. Often some of the best and most memorable things on a vacation would have never happened if things went as planned.

 

[mom2rtk]

My last 3 offsite trips were Jan 2018 (arrived on NYE), May 2018 (booked 3 days before I was there), and March 2019 (spring break). I got FOP and SDMT for all 3 trips. SDD was not open for the first 2, but I was able to get it about a week out from my trip earlier this year. I also got an SDD about 21 days out from my onsite trip in June this year when it was not available at 60+1 for a morning time when I initially booked.

That’s encouraging. How many people were you looking for?

 

[GroupB]

Meh. I'm not impressed with it and have thought ever since it was announced it was a terrible fit for WDW. My feelings haven't changed.

*Please put your controversy shades on now*
I agree about the not being impressed with Pandora part. To me it's two boring rides, (one of which, IMO, is probably one of the most overrated things in all of Disney's history. FOP.) an okay gift shop, and a pretty good QS restaurant. I feel that they've added the absolute minimum amount of content possible for a new land here, as well as all lands since. Pandora, Toy Story, and Galaxy's Edge all seem to be underdeveloped despite the money spent on them. Personally, I find Galaxy's Edge to be completely insulting in it's opening form. And I find it to be the culmination of all the bad park decisions made over the years.
*It's now safe to remove your controversy shades*

However, I do think Pandora fits in nicely with the park theme wise and aesthetically. Also, we've found the food at the Canteen to be above average for QS offerings around the resort. We almost always eat there on our AK days.

I also agree with the general sentiment given in this thread. Prices up on everything, service quality down across property, food quality down overall, homogenized menu options, gift-shops homogenized, many entertainment options removed, added fees, crowd levels so much higher over the past many years, EMH reduced, park hours down, cash grabs everywhere etc. etc. My last several visits I have been less than enthused and after our upcoming trip Nov 28-Dec 7, I'm letting the family know that I'd to take a very long break. I expect to receive strong backlash, especially since we are AP holders and they are also mega-fans. We typically visit 2-4 times per year, but now I'd like to be an every 5-6 years family. We'll see.

Unfortunately, these things are not limited to the parks or even Disney as a whole. It seems like many things in many industries are getting more expensive while the quality is being reduced, etc. I've found that many of my hobbies are just not what they once were and I've stepped away from many as a result.