What do you mean " WE " Paleface ?

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by Saffron
minniepumpernickel, in summary :
a.) No one was commenting much on the original post then:
b.) Someone put up a post that simply said: "If someone needs a prefix before the word American, they need to get out. Bumperstick seen in Key Largo" or someplace.
(What that had to do with the original post, I'll never know. ) Then Robinrs challanged the meaning of the post and the dialogue began.

I see, thanks Saphron! I remember one on the DB that was similar to that theme. I really will have to read the whole thing, lol!

I have a question for you. I'm so glad that you are posting on here again! Does WillyJ ever post anymore? I miss his posts? Did it stress him out too much? Hope you guys are having a great 4rth holiday!

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Saffron
Did those of you who are saying that people who use two words to describe themselves as Americans instead of one "distance themselves", read posts from people right here on this thread who use two words to describe themselves? Did you read why they do it? Did you read that they do NOT do it to distance themselves from anything? Or did you not read those posts? Because if you did read those posts and you still insist on saying that's why people do it, can you tell us who "those people" are? I've NEVER heard of anyone doing that to "distance" themselves [from what?]. Did you not read the posts written why people do use two words? I just don't get it. Honest to God, two plus two equals four, not five, no matter how much anyone wants it to equal five. When people state why they do something, no matter how much others want what they do to mean something different, it just doesn't!

Yes, I read ALL the posts in this thread and I still believe that you can have it both ways.

You can call yourself American (without adding something in the front of it) and STILL be your own individual with your own history and STILL celebrate it/be proud of it.

 

[Saffron]

No sadly, he doesn't post on the DIS anymore. Yeah, it stressed him out too much and he's too busy any way, out there in cyberland, trying to overthrow the government. And thanks, we're having an okay holiday! Willy's sleeping the weekend away! Bwhahahaha! He's working long, long hours, getting up tution money. I hope you are having a great WE too. Is that you in your signature? If so, HI! Nice to see you! Where were you hiking?

Okay -- sorry for that intermission, back to the thread.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Yes, thats me waiting for the fireworks! Hershey had really nice ones on Sat. night!

Willy for President! Hey, did you know that Bush is speaking in a town right near you? If you are still in PA. Are you going, lol!

I went into the PA mountains for a litle bit. Absolutely gorgeous, and the weather was great!

Oops for butting into this thread!

 

[Saffron]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Yes, I read ALL the posts in this thread and I still believe that you can have it both ways.

You can call yourself American (without adding something in the front of it) and STILL be your own individual with your own history and STILL celebrate it/be proud of it.

Of course you can, that's what I've been stating all along.

I just didn't understand if you read all the posts, especially those by a woman poster who refers to herself as African American and a woman poster who refers to herself as Native American, why you still insist on saying this:

Yes, people have to stop the name calling but it sure makes it hard when those people call themselves names in a effort to distinguish (or distance, your pick) themselves from others.

Edited to change sentence structure. LOL!

 

[HOGFAN]

SOMEBODY GET THIS I#%@T OFF MY COMPUTER!!!!

 

[Pongo69]

When people stop name calling, and pointing fingers at people who don't look like them, talk like them, cook like them, etc., these type of discussions will stop.

When people learn to respect the differences in each other instead of feeling threatened by them, we'll live in a more peaceful society, and this has to come from all sides, not just one, but each person has to take the responsibility to really try.

I know this is off the original subject, but I see some questions and challenges, especially to Robin & Pokie, and wanted to give my own perspective.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITA!!

I guess to some I might be considered non american because
I don't fly a flag infront of my house.
I didn't watch Reagan's funeral nor did I shed a tear
I can't stand Bush and I also think he's an idiot
I have always been against the war from the very start.


Hey call me unpatriotic unamerican whatever I don't care. What I do is my business. If I want to refer to myself as blackafricanirishlatingreek american it's my choice, my business. I sure as heck don't owe anyone an explanation just as you don't owe me one.

Pokie and Robinrs all I have to say is your very kind and patient. A couple here tried to pose a challenge to you as to why you need to put native or african infront of american when you really didn't owe them a darn thing.

People really need to worry about what go on in their own backyard before peeking over someone else's bushes.

This isn't an attack on anyone here, but I would rather have black, african,white,greek or latinirish infront of american anyday instead of being
an INTOLERANT AMERICAN
an IGNORANT AMERICAN or a SIMPLE MINDED AMERICAN WHO BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD DANCE BY THEIR BEAT.


These type of americans make the melting pot reek of stink.

 

[Robinrs]

Pokie and Robinrs all I have to say is your very kind and patient. A couple here tried to pose a challenge to you as to why you need to put native or african infront of american when you really didn't owe them a darn thing.

Exactly why I have not posted again. I've lived too long to have to explain myself to anyone. What and who I am is what and who I am. I respect others for who they are and only expect the same back.

Amen.

 

[Planogirl]

Well said Robin. I don't understand why some people concern themselves so much with what others do.

 

[meandtheguys2]

You are so right, Planogirl.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by Planogirl
Well said Robin. I don't understand why some people concern themselves so much with what others do.

Personally, I could care less what others call themselves, though I readily admit that I don't see the point. I agree that people of different cultural, racial and national backgrounds can retain and celebrate those backgrounds without including it as a prefix to "American".

But if they want to do so, that's fine with me - just don't expect me to do the same when I'm addressing them. I don't do hyphenated Americanism.

 

[wdwdvcdad]

The hyphenated American is undermining what this country was founded on. There is no longer an "American Dream". There is no longer ans American culture. It will lead to a far more depressing state of things in the years to come. We focus too much on differences, & not enough on our similarities. We divide & polarize. It's rather pathetic.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by pokiemomo181
Unless you live on a reservation you get no benefits for being NA. Even then I don't call living on a reservation a benefit. I can't answer for other NA's only myself. If you don't prove you are NA then on every form you fill out such as census or any government form for that matter you have to list yourself as caucasion, not NA. I guess that made me feel like I was being told I couldn't be what I was. That I was not allowed to ba NA. I felt it was a disrespect to my past to say I was something I was not. I got sick of it, and proved my past to all concerned. It was a personal thing, but I don't think others, or even you would want to have to claim to be something you are not. I don't know what catagory you fit in when you fill out forms, but if I was caucasion then it wouldn't matter to me if I was German, or Irish or what I would still be caucacion, so it would be fine. If I was AA then I would fill in AA and would still have my heritage. Because I was NA I had to prove it to be it. That is why I said we were the only ones who had to prove who we were. I didn't do it to get anything other than what I felt I was entitled to, My heritage. I didn't think anyone had the right to tell me I was caucation and not NA. I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone but me, maybe you have to be NA to understand the pride we feel in who we are. If that is so then nothing I say will make any sense to anyone. I was NA and I thought it was my right to be NA. I hope this helps you understand, but if not at least I understand and thats all that matters.


Pokie

I would thing that a simple gene test would proive you were NA. I guess that solution is too hard for our government to understand.

I, for one, acknowledge that the US gov't's treatment of NA's is about as atrocious as can be. Heck, if they asked me to prove I was white, the best I could do is show pictures of great-grandparents. After that, the proof is gone. If I had to prove ten generations back, I would be denied whiteness.

Wow, sometimes our gov't REALLY gets it wrong.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by Pongo69
This isn't an attack on anyone here, but I would rather have black, african,white,greek or latinirish infront of american anyday instead of being
an INTOLERANT AMERICAN
an IGNORANT AMERICAN or a SIMPLE MINDED AMERICAN WHO BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD DANCE BY THEIR BEAT.


These type of americans make the melting pot reek of stink.

:thewave: :thewave:

 

[Robinrs]

Originally posted by wdwdvcdad
The hyphenated American is undermining what this country was founded on. There is no longer an "American Dream". There is no longer ans American culture. It will lead to a far more depressing state of things in the years to come. We focus too much on differences, & not enough on our similarities. We divide & polarize. It's rather pathetic.

The only thing I find PATHETIC is the lack of open mindedness of so called "loyal patriots" on this board. If you love your country why can't you understand why someone else would still have love and respect for the country of their forefathers? We had to fight for our rights here on this land and then we had to fight for the right to be proud of who we are after the "dream" here tried to beat it out of us. We have been divided and polarized by America for years. I spend my life now assimlating and teaching my son to do so WHILE remembering how we got where we are. It was a fight we are proud of and it reflects in the freedom we share today.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by Microcell
I would think you wouldn't have a problem with that.

I plan to Sue anyone who ever called me Kike, not to mention those Renaissance folk who drove my family out of Spain when they decided to start learning and producing great works of art. When I get through with those potatoes in Ireland that forced my family to America, those Irish won't be able to say potato without thinking of me. Oh and the Queen of England will be bowing to me as well, after all, her ancestors wouldn't let my grandmothers family practice thier Puritan beliefs openly.

Wow, that is really off base.

Comparing NA's to European ancestry is ludicrous. Yeah, our European ancestors were also treated badly enough (not ALL of them, but many of them), but they willingly left for better place. Then we arrived in the New World and perpetrated the same types to crimes to a much greater degree.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Pongo69


I guess to some I might be considered non american because
I don't fly a flag infront of my house.
I didn't watch Reagan's funeral nor did I shed a tear
I can't stand Bush and I also think he's an idiot
I have always been against the war from the very start.


Hey call me unpatriotic unamerican whatever I don't care. What I do is my business. If I want to refer to myself as blackafricanirishlatingreek american it's my choice, my business. I sure as heck don't owe anyone an explanation just as you don't owe me one.

Pokie and Robinrs all I have to say is your very kind and patient. A couple here tried to pose a challenge to you as to why you need to put native or african infront of american when you really didn't owe them a darn thing.

People really need to worry about what go on in their own backyard before peeking over someone else's bushes.

This isn't an attack on anyone here, but I would rather have black, african,white,greek or latinirish infront of american anyday instead of being
an INTOLERANT AMERICAN
an IGNORANT AMERICAN or a SIMPLE MINDED AMERICAN WHO BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD DANCE BY THEIR BEAT.

Who are you calling a intolerant, ignorant and simple minded?

These type of americans make the melting pot reek of stink.

"these"?

opposed to "those"?

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by rcyannacci
Just a few thoughts...

The term "we" inevitably does some harm because to define a "we" is also to exclude some from this group. When statements of "we believe..." or "we disagree with..." are made and someone within that group disagrees, it challenges their sense of identification with that group. But that doesn't mean that they have to leave the group; they can chose to stay and confront the group's position. Indeed, some many noteable historical figures have taken heroic stands to broaden the defined "we" of American citizenship.

The original "WE the People" in the Constitution would not have meant me originally, since women weren't allowed to vote until the ratification of the 19th amendment. But women like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony challenged the nation to back up established constitutional ideals.

Many Americans before the Civil Rights movement didn't feel that "we" should include a large population of African-Americans, but leaders of this community, including Martin Luther King, Jr. demanded a more inclusive "we." Rosa Parks demanded to be part of that "we"- I find her action to be so incredibly inspirational because it was accomplished on such a local everyday level. We all can take actions everday that make a difference to help populations in America that continue to fight for the rights that should be afforded to them by the "we."

I personally believe that words matter; words can improve a situation and can also do major damage. A community that choses to take ownership over their own identity, be it Native-American or African-American, is a positive step because it challenges past racist designations that had developed out of fear and ignorance. To take ownership of one's own identity through these, for lack of a better word, hypenated terms is to take power away from those who have inflicted past harm. For me it is a sign that our nation is healing and stronger than ever, and that our notions of "we" are expanding so that "we" do less violence in the future.

Good point. I was wondering how to word that, but you did a boffo job!

 

[wdwdvcdad]

It's one thing to love your heritage. It is another to put it before your love of country. By hyphenating America with some other country, that is what you are doing. If you were born in another country, that is one thing. If you were not, you are just looking for attention...trying to separate from the whole. My family had to fight for its rights, too. Get over it.

Originally posted by Robinrs


The only thing I find PATHETIC is the lack of open mindedness of so called "loyal patriots" on this board. If you love your country why can't you understand why someone else would still have love and respect for the country of their forefathers? We had to fight for our rights here on this land and then we had to fight for the right to be proud of who we are after the "dream" here tried to beat it out of us. We have been divided and polarized by America for years. I spend my life now assimlating and teaching my son to do so WHILE remembering how we got where we are. It was a fight we are proud of and it reflects in the freedom we share today. [/B]

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by Pongo69
When people stop name calling, and pointing fingers at people who don't look like them, talk like them, cook like them, etc., these type of discussions will stop.

When people learn to respect the differences in each other instead of feeling threatened by them, we'll live in a more peaceful society, and this has to come from all sides, not just one, but each person has to take the responsibility to really try.

I know this is off the original subject, but I see some questions and challenges, especially to Robin & Pokie, and wanted to give my own perspective.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITA!!

I guess to some I might be considered non american because
I don't fly a flag infront of my house.
I didn't watch Reagan's funeral nor did I shed a tear
I can't stand Bush and I also think he's an idiot
I have always been against the war from the very start.


Hey call me unpatriotic unamerican whatever I don't care. What I do is my business. If I want to refer to myself as blackafricanirishlatingreek american it's my choice, my business. I sure as heck don't owe anyone an explanation just as you don't owe me one.

Pokie and Robinrs all I have to say is your very kind and patient. A couple here tried to pose a challenge to you as to why you need to put native or african infront of american when you really didn't owe them a darn thing.

People really need to worry about what go on in their own backyard before peeking over someone else's bushes.

This isn't an attack on anyone here, but I would rather have black, african,white,greek or latinirish infront of american anyday instead of being
an INTOLERANT AMERICAN
an IGNORANT AMERICAN or a SIMPLE MINDED AMERICAN WHO BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD DANCE BY THEIR BEAT.


These type of americans make the melting pot reek of stink.

I can't help but get the feeling that, because you are against the war and against Republicans, it is just fine by you to distance yourself from the image that is America.

If most Americans (I'm talking 90%, not 51%) felt like you about world affairs, would you feel the same way?

And NO, I'm not IMPLYING that you would in any type of crafty way. But your post was so politically based that I wanted to ask honestly. Perhaps an UNpolitical response would be less polarizing. This thread is polarizing enough without throwing Dems and GOP'ers into the mix too.