What are your feeling on having a law that creates Mandatory Paid leave (Vacations)?

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

I have recently started back employment with an employer that I had worked for before. And the other day a coworker and I were having a discussion about taking time off from work.

I am a huge advocate for downtime and vacations and just time away from the office to regroup which in reallity enables us to be more productive.

This particular coworker has been with the company for 6 years and in ALL that time, she has only had one full week of time (that means 5 consecutive days in a row) off, and that was for her honeymoon 3 years ago. The best she can hope to get is a Friday or a Monday or she said very rarely maybe a Friday and a Monday for a long weekend.
I used to work in the HR department of this company and I know from the time I was in the position (which was about a year) that this girl was telling the truth. She was ALWAYS there and very rarely was ever out except for the occasional Friday and Monday. I was personally thinking that I wouldn't stand for it that I would demand my time off but she said when she started in the position she was a single mom who needed her job and now she is the one who provides the benefits for a family of four. She says she can't afford to lose the job so even though she gets resentful she remembers why she's here, and that's for the benefits for her family and also because her husbands job as a contractor isn't always steady. She related to me how it has been "made known" to her that she just can't have a week off. She even told a story of how her grandmother who had been very sick had taken a turn for the worse and when she called to tell her manager that she had to rush to the hospital for her grandmother, the manager gave her a hard time and so the girl relented to come in at noon. She said she's afraid to push the issue because #1 she needs the job, #2 the guilt that is put on her. #3 the attitude she gets about it. As if she were a bad person asking to use the time that the company says she gets.

I was talking to my manager about how it's terrible that people are made to feel they can't take any time off and how we all need down time and time away and then she shared with me that she hasn't taken a full day off (with the exception of the time her mother fell and broke her hip she took a week off) in 5 years either. She said that she takes half days here and there but basically she can't take off because no one else can do her job, which is true. She started the position and the department and no one else has had the time or the desire to learn her position because everyone is stretched so thin doing their own jobs. She said that's why she's so glad I'm here, now, because she is teaching me to do her job which really isn't hard but as I said even if others wanted to learn what she does, they don't have the time either. She says that when I'm comfortable to do her job she'll be so glad just to take a day or two to herself. She said if it weren't for her mother, who is 95 and lives with her, she'd be so gone but she needs the job and can't afford to lose it.

I guess it's just sheer will that drives these people and helps them to get out of bed in the morning.

So after all of that I remembered reading an article about people pushing for Mandatory paid time vacation so I did a search on the internet to see if I could find anything about it and I found this website Work to Live Campaign

It has a chart which breaks down what other countries receive and are protected by law in the way of time off.
The reason it's so hard to get a vacation and so hard to enjoy one when you manage to squeeze part of one in is that the U.S. is the only country in the industrialized world without a minimum paid-leave law.

I've been to Disney and made acquaintances with people from Great Britain and other countries who are on "2 week holiday" and they certainly didn't seem rushed or commando style with their time. No wonder, they're given time off to enjoy life.

So, with all of this I'm wondering what some of your opinions are and what your reaction to the website is?

"When millions of hard-working Americans are afraid to take their vacations for fear they will be replaced or bypassed for promotions if they do so, we have to have the protective recourse of a law. When the volatile economy forces workers in their forties and fifties to start their paid-leave banks over again at one or two weeks when they join a new company, as if they were at their very first job, it's not too much to insist from the political leaders that we empower that they make every effort to right this ridiculous state of affairs. Having to constantly prove ourselves worthy of vacation time till the day we retire is an insult to the efforts beyond the call of duty that working Americans put in every day to keep this country's economy growing." --Joe Robinson, WORK TO LIVE

Thanks for your time to all who have stuck with me to the bottom of this post.

April

 

[Maleficent13]

I wonder if you realize what a debate you've started?

IMO, I can see both sides of this. But really, there is no one forcing these people not to take a vacation. They have to learn to stand up and be assertive and take what is theirs per their company policy. As long as people allow their employers to take advantage of them, they certainly will. I see no reason why the government should step in to legislate the time off businesses are required to offer.

omg...I cannot believe I said that...and more so that I actually believe it...can someone pass me more kool-aid?

 

[panfan]

I also see both sides of this issue. As a member in a small family run buisness with around 20 employees..I too have gone YEARS without more than 4 days off in a row. With the exception of the births of my boys, in which case each time I had 3 weeks off with c-sections each time! Now .....I enjoy my job very much and hopefully in the future more time off will come easily but to be in business has its ups and downs. I of corse would love a 2 week paid holiday but can't take it and certainly can't afford to pay any of my employees for their vacations!
Remember....part of what makes the U.S. great are the small businesses! To much Government interference will take it all away! We are busy all the time...but still barely keeping a float some months!
Thanks for listening.

 

[caitycaity]

hey mal, pass me the koolaid.

i don't think we need government interference on this issue. i actually typed out a bunch more, but that basically sums it up and hopefully will not get me in too much trouble.

 

[Towncrier]

The first job that I took out of college had a policy where you had to take at least one week of vacation (5 consecutive days off) a year. Their belief was that, if you only took one day off here and there, that you didn't realize the full benefits of getting away from the daily stress of work. A coworker of mine had to fight to be allowed to bank enough vacation time to take a month off so that he and his wife could drive to Alaska. The policy made a lot of sense. But in all my years since, I have never worked for a company with a similar policy. I have friends now who have banked the maximum 240 hours of vacation and are actually no longer earning vacation time. They are workaholics that never takey any time off. I think that there must be some happy medium.

As far as the government adding another regulation regarding mandatory paid leave, I think we have enough laws and that perhaps we should allow businesses to police themselves in this matter.

 

[TheOtherVillainess]

I think a law that says there must be mandatory time off would be wonderful. I love the FMLA which allowed me to take time after the birth of DS without the fear of being fired.

I think we have enough laws and that perhaps we should allow businesses to police themselves in this matter.

I have to say I disagree with you on that,Towncrier.
At my current job, nobody, not even mgrs, gets paid vac time. I wish we did. Every time I ask for a day off for something..drs appts usually...I'm scared to death my boss is going to fire me. I know if I took more than three days off at a time, I'd probably be fired for sure.

IMO (which is only MHO. YMMV) leaving businesses to police themselves on ANY matter is a bad,bad BAD idea.

TOV

 

[SC Minnie]

The company is putting itself at a great disadvantage by not having someone that can fill in on these jobs. What if these people were in an accident on the way to work tomorrow and not able to come in for an extended about of time or ever. What would the company do?

I believe every company should have every person cross train in other jobs. Even if is only to be able to do the daily functions that HAVE to be done should someone quit, be out for an unexpected medical emergency, or even die. They need to remember that 'tomorrow is promised to no one'.

 

[NMAmy]

This is one reason I work at a college. I get a lot of vacation time--although I did have to start from scratch when I moved from another state. This benefit is much more important to me than pay.

I don't understand people who are "indispensable." I train my staff to be able to seamlessly take over my responsiblities. It not only is great for morale but I can take time off guilt free. It also enables them to learn skills that help them to move up within the college and attain whatever career goals they have.

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by TheOtherVillainess
At my current job, nobody, not even mgrs, gets paid vac time. I wish we did. Every time I ask for a day off for something..drs appts usually...I'm scared to death my boss is going to fire me. I know if I took more than three days off at a time, I'd probably be fired for sure.

Can I ask - are you full-time or part-time? I work part-time in retail and I haven't had the same fear at all! Yeah, we don't get paid vacation, but I haven't had any trouble working my schedule around appointments. I just ask for the days I need and my boss schedules me for other days.

As per the OP - no, I don't think it needs to be mandatory.

 

[daannzzz]

Unless you absolutely love your job (such as imagineering new Disney attractions, resorts, etc or the equivilent) and make the decision yourself to not take vacation I beleive that WAY to many people work WAY to much. Life is not about work. Life is about living. While living includes work it shouldn't dominate it like it seems to. I am not for government mandated paid vacations. But I think the law needs to be very strong about people taking time off, whether it paid or unpaid vacation time, and there not being any repercussions. No company should be in a position where someone "can not" take of at least one full week a year. When something important is going on I often tell coworkers about things that they need to know in case something happens to me. One of the people above was right about accidents and such. You never know when some emergency will come up and you can't have everyone in the company unaware of what one person does or is doing. Small business who can not pay for vacation time should be set up to allow a person their week or two if the person can afford to take it. It would be nice if everyone could have paid vacation but I am not sure it is good to have "paid vacation" built in under a new law.

 

[Nancy]

I don't think the government should be involved in this. That said I wish my company would up it's vacation package a bit. I've been here 13 yrs and I just got up to 3 weeks and 3 personal days. We have no sick days other then disability pay..so if you call in sick you either don't get paid or you use a vacation day. The company feels that 3 personal days are your sick days. I have 3 kids, when they were younger I needed more then 3 sick days with them. Also if you are part time..you have 0 personal days and your vacation pay is paid on your anniversary date...so if you take a week off you won't see the pay for it until then. that said, I choose to work here, I love my job. I could look around and find a better vacation package....but I don't because I love it here and like my co-workers.

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

I too am one who also believes that less government is better. I think we have too many "programs" and nonesensical interferance now. Generally, I tend to vote down my party line and truth is, I don't really get too involved with politics or platforms or hot topics like the war and stem cell research. I honestly couldn't tell you a bit about either one and I really have no opinions on them so I stay far away from saying anything when these issues are brought up. But, I've got to tell you this is one thing that has really gotten my attention and is something I can relate to. I honestly thought I'd get the same reactions from others that I had. It really started a fire in me (which I guess is good because it'll make me get involved with something). To be honest, I am just baffled why more overworked, over-stressed, under-vacationed people don't jump on this bandwagon and actually continue to support this insane lifestyle.

Our Puritan attitude that "work is good for the soul" is completely crazy.
" Vacations are being cut by the same forces that brought us soaring work weeks: labor cutbacks, a sense of false urgency created by tech tools, fear and, most of all, guilt. Guilt works, because we are taught to believe that only productivity and tasks have value in life."

That quote comes from an article entitled
Ahh, Free at La --Oops! Time's Up

I am proud to be an American but maybe we should open ourselves up to the possibility that we might be able to learn from other cultures -- that perhaps we don't have the best quality of life and perhaps there are other countries that have more balanced ideas about life. And the only way we can enjoy our life is to actually be there. Not strapped to a desk meeting demands and deadlines. Australia gives their people by law 20 days, the United Kingdom gets 20 days, Germany gets 24, Canada gets at least 10 and heck even China gets 15!!

I was surprised to learn that we're now logging more hours on the job than we have since the 1920s. If we look around we see the damages that stress and overwork causes.

I have friends now who have banked the maximum 240 hours of vacation and are actually no longer earning vacation time. They are workaholics that never takey any time off. I think that there must be some happy medium.

I hear what you're saying and when I used to work in the HR dept., as I said in my initial post, I saw the people that never took off. I also thought they were "workaholics" but when I came down into the "trenches" I see that that's not the case at all! These people feel they can't take off. They don't "stick" up for themselves and be more assertive because they've resigned themselves to believe that it's not worth the headache of fighting and getting attitude and the run around and fear that they are replaceable.


Again, I did not realize that I was going to cause a debate as Mal said. I just thought that if others were interested, there is a campaign that we can get involved with. And I wanted to get the word out.


Thanks for listening,
April

 

[jel0511]

This is very interesting. When I was working, I worked for large institutional banks, both domestic and foreign. We were REQUIRED to take 2 consecutive weeks off (10 business days), no exceptions. I'm not sure if it was a regulatory thing, or something that most institutional banks require. It is so that any person who works in what they consider a "sensitive" position, their work can be scrutinized and make sure there is nothing illegal going on. I think vacation is an important thing, and employees should be allowed to take any vacation entitled to them. Do I think it should be federally mandated? No. There are just some companies that can't afford vacation, like a previous poster. People take those jobs full knowing the benefits and are aware of the vacation policy.

 

[TheOtherVillainess]

Can I ask - are you full-time or part-time? I work part-time in retail

FT..and for what it's worth...nobody gets health benefits either. Not even offered. Part of the reason I want to leave the company I'm at right now is because of the fear of being replaced. Since I have started working there I've seen a higher staff turnover rate than I'd seen in any previous job. Ever. That's why I'm glad I have an interview next week with an office-rental company and another retail business. My job is always at stake when I take a day off. I know my grandmother, goddess bless her, is not long for this world and she knows it too. I am so afraid that if I take off 2-3 days to fly to Knoxville for her funeral, I am so outta there because I can so easily be replaced.

TOV

 

[caitycaity]

the problem is, what about people who like their job? what about people who don't WANT to take vacation every year? what about the people i know who bank their vacation so that they can spend 2-3 weeks with their families who are outside of the US? what about small businesses who can only afford to give their employees a week or 2 off/year? will we have the government subsidize businesses who can't afford the government minimums?

just a few reasons why i think the governmnet should STAY OUT of it and leave it to the individual business to decide.

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

Originally posted by SC Minnie
The company is putting itself at a great disadvantage by not having someone that can fill in on these jobs. What if these people were in an accident on the way to work tomorrow and not able to come in for an extended about of time or ever. What would the company do?

I believe every company should have every person cross train in other jobs. Even if is only to be able to do the daily functions that HAVE to be done should someone quit, be out for an unexpected medical emergency, or even die. They need to remember that 'tomorrow is promised to no one'.

ITA.
I work at a weekly newspaper. They actually print 6 seperate newspapers. The department I have gone back to was started by my now manager. Others have expressed interest in learning what she does but they just haven't the time. I'm telling you everyone is worked to the max. Our President made a comment that we work our people to death and don't pay them anything. Ha-Ha. Well, many a true thing is said in jest. I work here because I like the work. I like the people in my office. I don't "need" the job so I will fight for my time off because in the back of my mind I think, "I don't need to be here" so that eliminates my fear for being assertive for what is mine per company policy.

Originally posted by panfan
As a member in a small family run buisness with around 20 employees...I enjoy my job very much and hopefully in the future more time off will come easily but to be in business has its ups and downs. I of corse would love a 2 week paid holiday but can't take it and certainly can't afford to pay any of my employees for their vacations!

I can understand where you're coming from as my husband, FIL, and BIL are in business together. We too are small and family run. I can also understand that you can't perhaps afford to pay your employees for vacation but do you allow them the right to take it if they want too? I think that's what's important. That people don't feel like they can't EVER take off!! As a business owner I can understand that as the owner you don't get as many days off as perhaps you'd like but remember you could and it's always there if you want it. As an employee though, I understand that you always have this feeling of it's not my company and I can work myself to death but basically it boils down to all I get is my hourly wage.

 

[UKDEB]

I work for a major UK bank. I would love to move to the States, but (apart from the fact that it's pretty difficult to immigrate), it's the lack of vacation time you guys get which puts me off. When you're used to the culture over here, these posts you guys have made are totally alien.

I get six weeks paid vacation a year (I have worked for the same organisation for 24 years and I am in a fairly senior role, but even so, I started out with 4 weeks), plus 8 public holidays. If I am off sick for up to 5 days I "self-certificate" with full pay. After that, I need a certificate from my Doctor and, if I had a long-term illness, would receive full pay for 6 months and half pay for a further 6.

If a close relative died, I would receive paid compassionate leave. If I needed to care for a relative I could take up to 2 years unpaid leave. I can take a similar period following childbirth or adoption (following a period of paid maternity leave). My male colleagues are entitled to the same benefits. Any time I need to take to visit the Dentist or Doctor I receive full pay.

My role means I do work very long hours and have stiff targets, but heavy emphasis is placed on "work/life balance". I might work 12 hours today, but if I decide to take time off tomorrow afternoon for my daughter's sports day, or to visit the hairdresser, that's my choice.

 

[UKDEB]

Oh, I forgot to mention that, like jel0511, we are require to take at least one period of 2 consecutive weeks' vacation a year for security reasons.

In the organisation I work for, you are rewarded for developing staff and it is considered commendable if you have trained them to step into your shoes in your absence. When I managed a large department, I received constant praise (and ultimately promotion) because it ran like clockwork whether or not I was there.

 

[Belle041281]

Thanks for the post UKDEB!!

It was interesting getting another point of view.

I'm just curious, how does it affect small business, as is alot of people's concern? Are the employees who work for them entitled to vacation? Also, do you have many small family run businesses in England?

One of the previous posters posted --

will we have the government subsidize businesses who can't afford the government minimums?

I was just wondering if this is what England does to protect small business or if the balance of work/life and time away actually produces more productivity which in turn profits the business enabling for time off.

Thanks again for your post.

 

[Jane and Ian]

I work for a small family run business here in the UK. When I joined the company it was just me and the boss, it now has 6 employees. Up until late last year I was being given 3 weeks leave a year. I work 24 hours a week so it was pro rata. I then found out that by law everyone is entitled to 4 weeks paid leave a year. I brought this up with my boss who didn't take too kindly to being told the law as he was adament he was right. I printed off the pages from the ACAS website and he really had no leg to stand on. However, I do now have my 4 weeks paid leave, but I have to take whatever leave he tells me to take over the Christmas period if he decides not to open. I am not allowed to take leave over the half term school holidays, as he would like to have the oportunity to take his children out for the odd days! What about me with my 10 year old son is he not allowed to have a holiday either? I am also not able to take time off when my boss is off - it really sucks. I don't get paid bank holidays, neither do I get sick pay - needless to say I go to work even if I am dying! Thankfully not very often!

Just another view from the UK
Jane