Weeding out the bad seeds

[CLR4321]

I will say, based on what you have said that I would not let my child play with the child unless they were supervised the entire time (like at the park or something). Your comment about what he did to your cat is out of line. A child of 7 should know that this is not safe and could seriously injure or kill a cat. I would be sure to have explained this right then and there to him. This type of behavior is a sign of a behavioral issue. He could be neglected or abused at home or he may have a medical issue that is causing him to act out. Just remember and remind yourself that the child is not at fault. If he has a behavioral issue that cannot be controlled by therapy or medication, it still is not the child's fault, so do not blame him and unless you 100% know for sure, do not blame the parents either. Some people opt to live like you described the parents. Growing up, many of my friend's parents smoked inside the house. When my mom was growing up, it was normal and absolutely ok. Some people opt to still smoke in the house despite the health warnings. It is their choice. And you as the parent have the choice as to whether or not you will let your child go over to their house. I would pay more attention to what you can do rather than what the other family is doing.

 

[Zeebs]

If you don't like the way the mother does things, don't let your kid go..

I don't agree with a lot of things you explained the mother does, but I also don't think you have any right to wade in with all the rules and regulations of your house and life.

I wouldn't let my child go if I didn't like it.

I am sorry but to me it seems as simple as that.

Kirsten

 

[disneycountrygirl]

Does your school not allow you to request a different class for your son?

That seems easiest, and in my neighborhood, both the parents across the street requested a change and got it.

I agree if they were in different classes, their freindship would likely fizzle out because they won't have the togetherness-by-default at school.

 

[powellrj]

I'm not going to get into whether or not you are overprotective but I will point out that 7 isn't a baby. You really need to raise your expectations of your son's ability to follow your rules, imo.

I really think that your anger is misplaced. My children have always known the rules and I've raised them to understand that if they aren't mature enough to speak up or call me if a rule is about to be broken then they will be staying home. You should be angry with your son for going to the park alone when he knows it isn't allowed.

You've known from pretty much the beginning of this friendship that the other parents do not provide the level of supervision that you deem appropriate yet you've continued to let your DS go over there. As far as how you now avoid it, just always say "no." Eventually they'll quit asking.

I agree, When my DS was that age he had a friend named Willie. Willie was the cool kid who was allowed to do everything all the other kids weren't allowed to do. Willie would come down to play at 9pm on a school night, Willie could watch R rated movies whenever he wanted. I told my DH that I knew if I was a 7 year old boy, Willie would be the coolest kid I knew and even I would want to be his friend.

DS also knew what he was allowed to do and what he wasn't. We let them be friends, but it was on our terms. They could play in our yard where I could keep an eye on them.

I think you need to rethink your rules and how you are enforcing them. If you know that his family does things you don't approve of, why do you let him keep going over there? Just always be busy when they want your son to go to their house. There is no need to confront them. Just because they parent different than you do is no reason to say anything.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

I agree!!

Especially about the no fence and that your son also needs to learn to follow your rules, he disobeyed also, was that dealt with? Learning to stand up for your principals starts now, if you want him to be able to do it as a teen, it doesn't suddenly appear overnight at 14.

The no fence rule would mean all the kids my son plays with would never go outside!!! rather counter productive to good kid play. I don't get this rule with older kids, why is it in place? do you truly feel he isn't mature enough to stay where he is at? that is the only reason for a fence to contain something.

I'm a little confused by the fence rule also. So you are telling us, if someone doesn't have a fence and your son is over there playing, the parent has to sit outside and watch them the whole time. Why? Kids at 7 can open a fence gate and get out if they want to.

I have a younger daughter and that would be a pain for me. Seriously, if that was a requirement for your son to come to my house , then he wouldn't be invited here. Sorry, but I don't have time to sit outside all day and watch 2,,2nd graders play.

I understand the park rule. But seriously its up to your child to follow your rules. The other child shouldn't have to follow your rules at his house. If you don't like the other moms rules, no playdates, plain and simple.

 

[My2Qtz0205]

I agree with the OP's fence rule. My almost 7 year old may go in the backyard (which is fenced) unsupervised. He may not go in the front yard unsupervised. Part of that rule is stranger danger, the other is traffic. My kitchen and living room are in the back of the house, so I can look out from whichever room I am in and see him in the backyard. My dog also goes in the backyard with him, so I will know if someone approaches our fence.

I also would not let my son walk to the park or to a friend's house alone. Maybe it is being overprotective, but I would not be able to get out of bed in the morning if he disappeared on one of these unsupervised outings.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

I agree with the OP's fence rule. My almost 7 year old may go in the backyard (which is fenced) unsupervised. He may not go in the front yard unsupervised. Part of that rule is stranger danger, the other is traffic. My kitchen and living room are in the back of the house, so I can look out from whichever room I am in and see him in the backyard. My dog also goes in the backyard with him, so I will know if someone approaches our fence.

I also would not let my son walk to the park or to a friend's house alone. Maybe it is being overprotective, but I would not be able to get out of bed in the morning if he disappeared on one of these unsupervised outings.

And your 7 yo can't open the gate and go to the front yard if he wanted to?

And what if he is at at a friends house, if they don't have a fence is he not allowed to play in the yard unless the parent watches him?

I understand your concerns, but strangers can open fences.

 

[luvsJack]

You and your child will have to understand, whether it is this friend or another friend; different homes have different rules. And different rules do not make another kid a "bad seed". They are not necessarily wrong, just different.

That doesn't mean your child can break your rules. I have told my daughter that she is responsible for making sure she follows certain rules no matter where she is. If her friend is allowed to go somewhere that she knows she is not supposed to go, it is up to her to say "no, I can't do that." or " I will have to call and ask mom first".

 

[mjkacmom]

Well, I'm not an overprotective mom (my kids walk to school without me when they're 7, and can venture a few houses over), but the smoking would bother me, as well as R rated movies (although all of my kids have seen all of the Harry Potter movies, some PG13, and we just had a marathon). My ds had a friend like this in kindergarten. I'd go to pick him up, and the boys would be riding bikes without helmets. The mom said "oh, they don't want to wear them." Ds was in trouble with me, because he knows my rules. Then, he said "I like riding in the car with them because they don't have to wear seatbelts." At this point I was done (there were other incidents), and I told the school they were not to be in the same class, and the friendship dwindled.

This other child is now well know as a trouble maker, and I did the right thing. Does this boy have older siblings? I've found that kids without older siblings have more restrictive parents, and those with older siblings have more freedom (and I can admit I see this with my kids as well).

 

[wickywinn]

I agree!!

Especially about the no fence and that your son also needs to learn to follow your rules, he disobeyed also, was that dealt with? Learning to stand up for your principals starts now, if you want him to be able to do it as a teen, it doesn't suddenly appear overnight at 14.

The no fence rule would mean all the kids my son plays with would never go outside!!! rather counter productive to good kid play. I don't get this rule with older kids, why is it in place? do you truly feel he isn't mature enough to stay where he is at? that is the only reason for a fence to contain something.

Yes, I dealt with him disobeying. DH and I both had a long talk with him about it. But this child's mother knows very well that my son is not allowed to leave her house alone. Her, as a parent, adult and authority figure, telling my son it's ok after HE told her he wasn't supposed to IS confusing for a 7 year old.

Why wouldn't kids go outside with a fence?! Is a swingset, trampoline, pool, etc, in the backyard, not fun enough? It was for me and my friends growing up. Do kids have to wander the neighborhood to have fun outside? We take the kids to the park quite often - almost everyday. In my city we do not have driveways in the front or driveways leading to the back. There are extensive labyrinths of alleyways to get to your garage. Cars come speeding through at all hours - there is no curb between these small alleyways and your backyard; only fences.. 99.9% of houses have fences here. If they don't it's because the city made them tear it down the majority of the time. If a house doesn't have a fence, the only other place for the kids to wander are into these narrow alleyways surrounded by fences and short driveways with cars backing out of them.

I know I'm not in the minority in my area expecting my children to be contained in the backyard or going to the park alone. I invite all of you who think I'm wrong or question whether I am overprotective to come to my city. Drive around our neighborhoods. See if you see any kids - and I'm not talking about 12-13 year olds and up - walking around alone. Go to our parks...see if you can find kids without adults supervising them. You won't. And the rare times you do....other parents are talking about it. We receive notices from school every other week about men trying to pull girls and boys into cars when walking home or to school, many times in front of the school! My son's school will not let the kids go out the door without the parent coming to the door. You have to jump through hoops to get it authorized for your child to walk home, even if it's across the street, alone. And the ones who do have their kids walk home alone, the rest of us know who it is because it is rare.

And going to the park alone is not a new thing either. My friends and I were not allowed to go and that was 30 years ago. We had to have a parent with us.

Maybe it depends on your town and the size. We live in a very large, metropolitan city.

 

[wickywinn]

I'm not going to get into whether or not you are overprotective but I will point out that 7 isn't a baby. You really need to raise your expectations of your son's ability to follow your rules, imo.

I really think that your anger is misplaced. My children have always known the rules and I've raised them to understand that if they aren't mature enough to speak up or call me if a rule is about to be broken then they will be staying home. You should be angry with your son for going to the park alone when he knows it isn't allowed.

You've known from pretty much the beginning of this friendship that the other parents do not provide the level of supervision that you deem appropriate yet you've continued to let your DS go over there. As far as how you now avoid it, just always say "no." Eventually they'll quit asking.

Oh my gosh, I know he is not a baby. Please do not pick everything I say apart...

And how is my anger misplaced? I guess your fine with allowing your children to spend the night at other kids' places and give the other parents free reign? because your son knows better. So, if they offer a cigarette to your kid and he says no, he's not allowed,, you wouldn't be upset with the other parent? Because your child did the right thing? and if you told the other parent your child was not allowed to do something and they went behind your back and told him or her it was ok? I guess that's not something you'd be angry with them about? As long as your child said no? This is confusing to me...

 

[wickywinn]

If you don't like the way the mother does things, don't let your kid go..

I don't agree with a lot of things you explained the mother does, but I also don't think you have any right to wade in with all the rules and regulations of your house and life.

I wouldn't let my child go if I didn't like it.

I am sorry but to me it seems as simple as that.

Kirsten

I never said I was trying to push my beliefs as a parent on them, I just pointed out issues that caused me to become uncomfortable with my child to go over there. Hence why I have decided to not allow him to go over there again. My question wasn't how to force this mother to "wade in with all the rules and regulations" I have in my life. I believe my question was how to handle the inevitable conversation with her about why I am upset with her disregarding my rules in regards to my child going to the park alone.

 

[PHXscuba]

I think you know what you'll do with the situation with the other mother. It's really hard when they start school and making friends without our approval. Hopefully your son will be so busy with activities and friends that playdates with that child can "naturally" die out. The boy may have attached to your son because other kids didn't/couldn't play with him after some of the situations you have described. Your child's safety comes first, then being polite. I sometimes feel I am too overprotective as well, but I see many more bad results of under-parenting than over-parenting!

Some kids are shy about asserting themselves and easily follow others --whether troubled child or "authority figure" parent. Sometimes they are too compliant and automatically do what an adult tells them, whether they deserve that trust or not.

Teaching kids to stand up for themselves and listen to that "Jiminy Cricket" inside of them is a huge skill to master. If your son knew he shouldn't be watching the movie, or going to the park, but still went anyway, that's something that won't disappear just because he stops playing with this friend. It may be tempting to make stricter rules and limit his time out of your sight, but he will have to learn to say "no" on his own, because we can't (and shouldn't) be right there all the time. It's a process.

Best of luck,
PHXscuba

 

[powellrj]

Oh my gosh, I know he is not a baby. Please do not pick everything I say apart...

And how is my anger misplaced? I guess your fine with allowing your children to spend the night at other kids' places and give the other parents free reign? because your son knows better. So, if they offer a cigarette to your kid and he says no, he's not allowed,, you wouldn't be upset with the other parent? Because your child did the right thing? and if you told the other parent your child was not allowed to do something and they went behind your back and told him or her it was ok? I guess that's not something you'd be angry with them about? As long as your child said no? This is confusing to me...

These are 2 totally different things. Offering a cigarette to a 7 year old is against the law, going to the park or playing in an unfenced yard aren't, they are different parenting styles.

My kids are older now, but I can honestly say I never had a list of dos and don'ts that I discussed with parents ahead of time nor has a parent ever come to me with any. I think the fact that you referred to the other child as a bad seed is what is rubbing many of us the wrong way. Just because the parents have a different style than you do doesn't make the child a bad seed.

 

[luvsJack]

Well, I'm not an overprotective mom (my kids walk to school without me when they're 7, and can venture a few houses over), but the smoking would bother me, as well as R rated movies (although all of my kids have seen all of the Harry Potter movies, some PG13, and we just had a marathon). My ds had a friend like this in kindergarten. I'd go to pick him up, and the boys would be riding bikes without helmets. The mom said "oh, they don't want to wear them." Ds was in trouble with me, because he knows my rules. Then, he said "I like riding in the car with them because they don't have to wear seatbelts." At this point I was done (there were other incidents), and I told the school they were not to be in the same class, and the friendship dwindled.

This other child is now well know as a trouble maker, and I did the right thing. Does this boy have older siblings? I've found that kids without older siblings have more restrictive parents, and those with older siblings have more freedom (and I can admit I see this with my kids as well).

OT: As to the bolded part, I wish we could do that! They would laugh me out of the school office if I told them who my child was allowed to be in class with.

 

[drinkme]

I know I'm not in the minority in my area expecting my children to be contained in the backyard or going to the park alone. I invite all of you who think I'm wrong or question whether I am overprotective to come to my city. Drive around our neighborhoods. See if you see any kids - and I'm not talking about 12-13 year olds and up - walking around alone. Go to our parks...see if you can find kids without adults supervising them. You won't. And the rare times you do....other parents are talking about it. We receive notices from school every other week about men trying to pull girls and boys into cars when walking home or to school, many times in front of the school! My son's school will not let the kids go out the door without the parent coming to the door. You have to jump through hoops to get it authorized for your child to walk home, even if it's across the street, alone. And the ones who do have their kids walk home alone, the rest of us know who it is because it is rare.

And going to the park alone is not a new thing either. My friends and I were not allowed to go and that was 30 years ago. We had to have a parent with us.

Maybe it depends on your town and the size. We live in a very large, metropolitan city.

I think that's what is the difference. In our neighborhood, I feel safe letting my children ride their bikes (on the sidewalks) around the neighborhood. I feel safe letting them play in the front yard. DS8 can go down the block to his friends' house (the 2 boys come and go between the houses all day). I started letting my dd10 bring her brother (ds8) to the park that's a block down. If your neighborhood isn't safe, of course you won't let your child outside without adult supervision.

 

[720L]

I wouldn't let your child go over there again. I also wouldn't explain why to the Mom. She's already a moron for not listening to your rules, she won't care what your reason is. These days it's better to be safe than sorry, there are a lot of sick people out there. It's very sad to me that I can't let my kids "be free" like we used to be when we were young.

 

[TinkandAriel]

Somedays I'm reminded how lucky I am to live in the boonies...my driveway is 1600 feet long (that's 9 telephone poles for those keeping track haha), we're almost at the end of a deadend road, and there's nothing behind my house but thousands of acres of uninhabited forest. If some stranger shows up it's not because he's looking to cause trouble, he's probably looking to find civilization
That being said, I know that things can happen anywhere and it's tough when your babies grow up without your permission

 

[eeyoremum]

"mom, J and I went to the park this morning by ourselves...J said it was ok and so did his mom when he asked her...I told them no, a mean man could get us but they said it was ok...I'm sorry mama...".

Really I don't think a child should be afraid of everything. It does your son no service to make him scared of something that statistically does not happen that often.

Yes children should be taught about strangers, yes they should be careful and know what to do but to have him fearful that he could be taken at any moment is not fair. Teach him how to protect himself for the danger. There are really good stranger danger courses or have him take a martial art.

Would I let me 7 year old go to a park alone...no of course not. But anything could happen at a park, falls, injuries and so forth. Would I be happy that these parents allowed it no. I would have put an end to the friendship after the cat was tied up with no appology to the parents.

 

[mjkacmom]

OT: As to the bolded part, I wish we could do that! They would laugh me out of the school office if I told them who my child was allowed to be in class with.

LOL - I live in an "old" town, where everyone knows everyone (even though it's close to 30,000 people, NYC metro area). When my ds and this child were together, there was trouble, especially for the teacher. My ds is academically smart, but a total follower. He was also a head taller than everyone else in the class. I got a call from a parent, saying that my ds was picking on her ds. I talked to my ds about it, and he told me "Vincent told me to do it." Of course he was in big trouble (and in tears after our talk), and the principal was happy to keep them apart.

I actually feel very sorry for this boy. He's parents are divorced, he has a reputation as a trouble maker, but it's lack of parental supervision and involvement. He was on ds's soccer team, but got kicked off, because he rarely made practices and games (which isn't his fault).