Wedding photos

[Chikabowa]

Let's just say.... if the photographer is named Don... and he asks for your ID.... you should run for the door!

OK... that was seriously funny.

Mickey88 is absolutely correct. A well-worded contract will allow the pro photog to make that determination on the spot.

There are some photogs that go as far as to have it written in their contract that no guest may take any photos of their posing, their set ups, or while the pro is shooting. Some just say they don't want any other pro's or people masquerading as pro's trying to work behind the scenes. It is really up to the individual photographer and you'll notice that a lot of contract language is a direct result of photographers who have been burned in the past by different people/guests/couples.

So it really does come down to the individual photographer and their own contract.

Personally... if a guest walked into a wedding with their D700 and a 24-70 f2.8 and was just taking pictures that were obviously just personal - I wouldn't care. However, I would take issue when that person started taking pictures of my posing or interaction with the couple, started moving around during the ceremony, and started acting like they were building a portfolio or were just getting in my way.

And it depends on the individual temperament of the photographer as to how they would handle the situation. Some would just get up and walk, some would mitigate the situation somehow, some would talk to the bride/groom, it's an individual choice.

I did a blog post where a couple of my girlfriends submitted their pictures of those overzealous guests. They obviously didn't walk from the wedding... but not everyone is so nice.
http://www.whimsicalphotodesign.com/gh/page/2

 

[NLD]

Personally... if a guest walked into a wedding with their D700 and a 24-70 f2.8 and was just taking pictures that were obviously just personal - I wouldn't care. However, I would take issue when that person started taking pictures of my posing or interaction with the couple, started moving around during the ceremony, and started acting like they were building a portfolio or were just getting in my way.

This makes a lot of sense to me, thanks Susan. It sounds like you would be basing your determination more on the behavior of the photographer/guest rather than on the gear alone. That seems to be a very common sense approach.

However, it's good to know different pros will have different tolerance levels. We'll be heading to at least one wedding this summer and I'd like to bring a DSLR, but truly don't want to make life difficult for the pro. I'll try to tune into howthe pro feels about it... and bring a point-and-shoot as back-up just in case. And obviously stay out of the way and not attempt to take the posed shots.

 

[MICKEY88]

Interesting. That would seem to perpetuate the myth that it's the camera, and not the photographer, who makes great pictures. Because truly... I can think of several amateur photogs here on the DIS who, especially at an outdoor wedding, could put me and a D700 to shame with just their point-and-shoots.

not really I didn't say they would base their decision on the equipment,
just whether they think you appear to be a pro

it is just worded in such a way to leave the hired gun in control, their judgement, their call..

 

[Geoff_M]

However, at what point is it actually a violation of contract to have another guest there who is also taking pictures?

I think part of the answer would be if it appears that the couple were working in concert with the other photographer. In another words, while the official photographer isn't working with the couple, is the "other guy" working with them and posing for photos and taking other direction. I think I'd also cry "foul" if the other guy was was literally shooting over my shoulder during the squad shots or jumping in front of me after I was done with a pose while saying "wait, wait!" I actually had a guy do that to me one, but I was shooting for a fixed price paid in advance so it was only annoying.

 

[wildeflowers]

I am going to add my 2 cents, since I am a wedding photographer. ;-)

First, the best advice I can give you is to introduce yourself to the photographer as soon as you see him/her (and (s)he's not running around like a maniac, lol), tell him your a hobbyist, and just generally make nice. I love it when an interested hobbyist talks to me. I like giving quick photography tips, too.

There are a few issues that pros have with guests shooting at the wedding. Often, the shooter is in the way EVEN WHEN they think they are not. I may be shooting with a super long lens, a shooter may not even see me, I might be following action, too. Often people shooting on the opposite side of me don't realize that their flash is popping right into my lens. Technically, they are "out of my way," but they are still causing a huge problem. Also, there are a huge number of hobbyists advertising themselves as wedding photographers after they go to their friend's and family's wedding, shoot around or over the pro, set up a website and call themselves a wedding photographer (not saying you would do this, however, the pro doesn't know this). There are two problems with this. One is when clients see the same couple on two different photog's websites, they wonder what the deal is, and they often skip right over BOTH photogs. Also, many times, it is the pro's lighting, posing, and direction that have made the shots and the hobbyist is either unable or lacking the equipment to recreate the shots, thereby accidentally misleading future clients. (Based on your post, this obviously isn't your intention, but I thought I'd add it since it is one of the reasons photogs can be sensitive about this issue.)

I actually never stop anyone from shooting at the weddings we work, although I do wish I could stop tripping over people sniping. I often announce that as I'm shooting portraits, "Please refrain from photos, and after I am finished with each one, I will step aside and give you a moment to shoot." ;-) It's my job to work around all of these problems and still get great work for the couple. I just wish everyone was thoughtful and respectful. The bride and groom have paid me a lot of money to produce good work. If you impede me, you are not hurting me, you are hurting them.

 

[CandyHead09]

I'm a freelance photography going to get my associates in photography next year and I was wondering what a good ammount of money is to charger for weddings? And what do you usually include? I'd give a cd of all the pictures I took and include a photo album probably charge $50 for those and 400 for my time. Is that about right? I want to get a lot of buisness so I figured I'd try to keep the prices low especially since I dont have my degree yet and a lot of people look for that as if a piece of paper means you can take fantastic pictures but I dont want to get 'ripped off' either.

I'm new to this so I thought I'd ask people who have been doing this longer than me.

Thanks

 

[tjl1388]

I'm a freelance photography going to get my associates in photography next year and I was wondering what a good ammount of money is to charger for weddings? And what do you usually include? I'd give a cd of all the pictures I took and include a photo album probably charge $50 for those and 400 for my time. Is that about right? I want to get a lot of buisness so I figured I'd try to keep the prices low especially since I dont have my degree yet and a lot of people look for that as if a piece of paper means you can take fantastic pictures but I dont want to get 'ripped off' either.

I'm new to this so I thought I'd ask people who have been doing this longer than me.

Thanks

$450 is INSANELY cheap unless your talking formal shots (less than 2 hours) only and frankly people shooting that cheap are driving good pro's out of the business. My advice would be to search the area photogs around you and see their quality, packages and rates. Figure how your quality compares to theirs and set your prices accordingly.

Also, I have shot my share of wedding and not once have I been asked for my degree. Your proof/sample book is what sells your work....not your degree.

And for an example my base package consist of 4 hours, single photographer, at least 500 high quality shots on a DVD as well as a $200 print credit on my website. All for $1200. Like I said, that is a base price...it goes up from there and I have no problems booking weddings in the competitive Atlanta market.

 

[photo_chick]

A lot depends on the area you're in and what you have in your portfolio. I've seen rates from $200 to $2000 to start, and just as wide a range of prices for prints and photoshop work.

I'd look at people in your area to get a jumping off point.

 

[WDWFigment]

Spend a fair amount on advertising and start your packages at $10,000. You will find folks who simply assume your work is awesome because you charge so much.

 

[tjl1388]

Spend a fair amount on advertising and start your packages at $10,000. You will find folks who simply assume your work is awesome because you charge so much.

Tom, I'm sure your paying $450 for your wedding pics right?

 

[WDWFigment]

Tom, I'm sure your paying $450 for your wedding pics right?

Ha, something like that. Add a couple zeroes and you're in the ballpark. It is too important for us to screw around with fly by night crap.

In all honesty, when I was looking for a photographer, I automatically disqualified anyone charging under $1,000. Not because I didn't want a good deal (I am usually a deal hound), but because I figured anyone charging less than that couldn't possibly know what they're doing from a business perspective (leaving the photography out of it--if you're charging ~$500 and doing an even "moderately thorough" job, you're probably going to make at or around minimum wage; why on earth would you work in a skills position for minimum wage?!). I didn't want someone who was new to the business, unprofessional, might not have adequate back-ups, etc.

 

[tjl1388]

Ha, something like that. Add a couple zeroes and you're in the ballpark. It is too important for us to screw around with fly by night crap.

In all honesty, when I was looking for a photographer, I automatically disqualified anyone charging under $1,000. Not because I didn't want a good deal (I am usually a deal hound), but because I figured anyone charging less than that couldn't possibly know what they're doing from a business perspective (leaving the photography out of it--if you're charging ~$500 and doing a even "moderately thorough" job, you're probably going to make at or around minimum wage; why on earth would you work in a skills position for minimum wage?!). I didn't want someone who was new to the business, unprofessional, might not have adequate back-ups, etc.

My point EXACTLY!!

 

[Chikabowa]

I really suggest going to a business-specific forum and asking these types of questions. The majority of the participants on this particular board are hobbyists and/or amateurs - it is not business specific in the slightest and the advice you get here probably won't be the most applicable to business issues.

Digital Wedding Forum (DWF) is a popular place to start - but I do warn you that it is fairly blunt. I suggest lurking there, learning the culture, and doing searches for the information you are needing prior to putting up a post like this. There are a lot of other forums (OSP, Fast Track Photographer, etc) that have a wealth of information when it comes to starting a wedding photography business.

I will say... $450 is insanely cheap. You'll have to do a TON of volume if you expect to make a livable wage (if you just want to make $35K a year, you are looking at having to shoot about 120 weddings per year... which equals HUGE burn out). You'll also need to take into account equipment, insurance, taxes (uncle sam likes about 35% of everything), and all the other things that come with owning your own business. I would highly suggest taking a business course and learn the intricacies of owning a small business because there is a lot to take into consideration.

 

[Chikabowa]

BTW - I've only been asked about my college degree twice in 3 years. I am 100% self taught and have a degree in Political Science. Most people don't really care what your degree is in, as long as you provide awesome pictures and you give them what they want.

 

[Daisy14'sDH]

Every time I see a thread like this I realise how good of a deal we got... the photographer from our wedding has her rates currently starting at $1500, we pid $225 and got the negatives... phew... BTW we are very happy with our pics. But we also got really lucky. She did 2-3 weddings a week back then and was very good, we didnt know how good until we got all the negs!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

If it were me, I would ask for $250,000. At that price, you are virtually guaranteed not to have to have any customers. Wedding photography is awful, so anything that gets me out of doing it is considered a good thing.

 

[CandyHead09]

Thanks everyone for the advice I was just looking for a general idea.

Basically I can sympathize with people who dont have a whole lot of money to work with as many of my friends have planned their weddings on pretty tight budgets. I rethought it and 450 is pretty low I think I'll charge a thousand. That seems fair without being outrageous. I'm not trying to sound full of myself but I am a pretty good photographer it really is my passion and I'm quite proud of my portfolio.

And I love shooting weddings so it's not torture for me haha.

I hope to save up enough money to move out and everyone is right 450 is way to low I thought I'd get enough buisness with that build up my status and then start charging more but after reading that under 1,000 seems like your not sure of yourself and the quality of your work I get that it makes a lot of sense!

For now this is only a plan and most likely not going to happen until 2012. I'm have the artistic aspect down and how to get a great shot it's just the buisness I dont know TOO much about yet that I have to learn more about! So thanks very much for everyone's help!!!

 

[Chikabowa]

I cannot stress enough that you need to learn the business. $1000 is still really low and you'll find yourself working yourself to the bone for under minimum wage - plus you will be undercutting other photographers who also rely on the money they make to pay their mortgage and feed their children.

Please PM me directly. It sounds like you could use a little guidance in this industry and I'd be happy to direct you to some more useful resources along with helping you.

 

[Steve's Girl]

I own my own business (nothing photography related though) and one thing I will caution you about is thinking you can easily raise your prices later. Many businesses get a lot of their customers through referrals from existing customers. And those customers will expect to get the same product their friend received for the same price. You are generally better off to set your pricing initially close to where it needs to be to fit your business plan. You could offer "specials" to customers to help build your portfolio and have them sign a release that you can use their images for marketing purposes.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

In photography, its not about the degree to the consumer, it's about what your portfolio looks like...
If you are just building up your portfolio, don't have a website (or a built up one) and are still new to weddings, by all means, charge the $450. It helps everyone.
However, as WDWFigment stated, some are looking at the low price tag meaning low quality. But..again, have the photos of previous events to back you up.... and, in the beginning, you may have to charge little to nothing to get those.... Its a Catch22.

Our photographers for our upcoming wedding start at $4100 for their packages, but that includes engagement session, 2 photographers for wedding day coverage and the CD, album and approx 40-60 photos for the wedding album..

Luckily...even at minimum wage, as someone pointed out...in the beginning, is a fair deal to do something you love, and their are plenty of brides on budgets!!