We want to redhead!

[hiroMYhero]

Dropping in to remind everyone to please remain on topic. @The Green Monster posed a basic yes/no question for this thread's topic.

As a point of reference, the thread linked by @CAS239 was closed by a Webmaster.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/pirates-of-the-caribbean-auction-scene-to-change.3614906/

There was a long discussion here that is now closed

I like the idea of a poll, though!!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Has never bothered me in the least. It is a ride depicting PIRATES. Odd if someone looks to them to be role models or anything in that neighborhood. Sanitizing history by today's cultural norms is clearly "in" these days, though.

Then again, I'm not bothered by half the things that I am told I simply MUST be bothered by as a woman... or even just to be considered a "good person" these days... oh, well!!

 

[Jennasis]

It doesn't bother me but I get why their changing it. What has bothered me is the emaciated dog with the groundskeeper in Haunted Mansion and the guy who hangs himself in the stretching room.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

It doesn't bother me but I get why their changing it. What has bothered me is the emaciated dog with the groundskeeper in Haunted Mansion and the guy who hangs himself in the stretching room.

I really wish you could get in a separate line to skip the stretching room. HM has ridiculous lines for an omnimover and the capacity of the stretching room has to be the main reason, along with FP+ folks taking up most of that space. Unlike the rest of the ride, which has enough detail to reward repeat visits, the stretching room is kinda one and done. And they should get rid of the hanging depictions of the man and the bride, IMHO. It doesn't affect me but I could see how folks who have lost loved ones that way could be really upset.

 

[NuJoy]

()

 

[SheHulk]

In answer to the question I don't care if they change it. But I'm not offended by the scene either. That said...
Two things:
1) I'm not sure why everybody jumps to a "PC culture" explanation if there were complaints. The only people who I've heard complain about it in my circle are actually religiously conservative and would be insulted to be called part of PC culture. They don't want their kids having sex shoved in their face that way. Not saying I agree.
2) Our kids are growing up in a different world than we did, and things we thought were funny or ok, they just don't. It's stupid for Disney to turn off younger generations because older people have nostalgia for a specific scene. I remember a few years ago we were in Country Bears and there was some song about beating little Beuford or something. I liked it as a kid I guess but ds who was 12 at the time looked at me and said "What the h**l Mom". At my kids school they can be suspended for making a gun with your thumb & forefinger and pointing it at someone. So when there was a line about shooting the kid, I don't remember it exactly, the kids were like "That's messed up" and they had no interest in going back. Call that PC but their experience is different from ours, and their kids will be even more different. If you keep the park exactly as it was 45 years ago you're not going to sustain.

 

[scanmom]

I love that scene. I wish they would leave it. People today are too sensitive. And if your kids ask about it, tell them that pirates were bad guys and go on. Geeze, relax and enjoy some "pretend time".

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

2) Our kids are growing up in a different world than we did, and things we thought were funny or ok, they just don't.

I think that what you're saying does appear to be true of millennials IN GENERAL (not everyone, etc., etc., etc. ).

However, I am raising my kids NOT to be so easily offended by so many things... to put everything they see/hear in proper historical context... not to expect everything in the world to bend/shape to their CURRENT preferences/sensibilities, etc.

Perhaps this is part of why no one in our family is offended by this depiction of PIRATES in a theme park ride.

 

[wonderstruck88]

I think that what you're saying does appear to be true of millennials IN GENERAL (not everyone, etc., etc., etc. ).

However, I am raising my kids NOT to be so easily offended by so many things... to put everything they see/hear in proper historical context... not to expect everything in the world to bend/shape to their CURRENT preferences/sensibilities, etc.

Perhaps this is part of why no one in our family is offended by this depiction of PIRATES in a theme park ride.

It's comments like this that got the last thread shut down. It's clearly meant to diss those with different parenting priorities than you and really has very little to do with the actual content of the ride.

My main problem with this portion of the ride is that it's presented as a joke. It has somehow become the humorous moment of the ride, where everyone laughs at and quotes the "we want the redhead" line. And yes, that does bother me. I want my kids to know history too, but I also don't want to have slavery and rape presented to them as a joke. There's nothing funny about it.

 

[SheHulk]

I think that what you're saying does appear to be true of millennials IN GENERAL (not everyone, etc., etc., etc. ).

However, I am raising my kids NOT to be so easily offended by so many things... to put everything they see/hear in proper historical context... not to expect everything in the world to bend/shape to their CURRENT preferences/sensibilities, etc.

Perhaps this is part of why no one in our family is offended by this depiction of PIRATES in a theme park ride.

Yes but to make an amusement park ride a lesson about the world not bending to your sensibilities doesn't sound like good business. This scene doesn't bother my kids either. But if there are a lot of things that make millenials or younger walk out shaking their heads, they won't return with their kids someday. Not saying that's the case here. I have no idea why they're changing it.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It's comments like this that got the last thread shut down. It's clearly meant to diss those with different parenting priorities than you and really has very little to do with the actual content of the ride.

My main problem with this portion of the ride is that it's presented as a joke. It has somehow become the humorous moment of the ride, where everyone laughs at and quotes the "we want the redhead" line. And yes, that does bother me. I want my kids to know history too, but I also don't want to have slavery and rape presented to them as a joke. There's nothing funny about it.

Disagree. I am not "dissing" others who see this differently or handle it differently with their kids. If you read what I actually wrote, I offered that (how we address this stuff at home) up as a reason why our family is probably not offended.

I see your POV of it seeming like a joke to you, thus making light of something serious. I see it as 1) something depicting PIRATES, whom I do not expect to behave appropriately, and 2) in the context of when it "happened" and 3) in the context of when the ride was created. From those lenses, I am not offended. And because of how WE choose to address these things with OUR kids, our kids aren't offended either.

I just said that we aren't offended -- as the question asked -- and explained why.

Different strokes.

Yes but to make an amusement park ride a lesson about the world not bending to your sensibilities doesn't sound like good business. This scene doesn't bother my kids either. But if there are a lot of things that make millenials or younger walk out shaking their heads, they won't return with their kids someday. Not saying that's the case here. I have no idea why they're changing it.

I get that. If that was truly the case, I'd see the business case for it. I don't know one way or the other -- none of us do. Perhaps Disney has market research backing this up. Or perhaps they are bending to a few loud voices. Or perhaps it has nothing to do with either of these things! Don't know.

 

[wonderstruck88]

If you read what I actually wrote, I offered that up as a reason why our family is probably not offended.

I did read what you actually wrote. Perhaps you don't realize how your tone is coming across - it is the internet, after all. But when you get into the specifics about how you're raising your kids...well, let me give you the opposite example. If I were to say, "Well, I'm raising MY kids to be compassionate individuals. I teach them about history so that we can recognize our past mistakes, not be like older people who (not always, not everyone, but most of the time, etc.) are often rape apologists and think tradition is more important than standing up for what's right!"

Again, I would not actually say this. It's a theme park ride and is a pretty awful assumption to make and thing to say about people just because they're not offended by that scene in the ride. But come on. That would clearly go beyond addressing the actual ride to insulting other people's beliefs/opinions/parenting. And that is how your post read to me. I suspect I'm not the only one, and to have an actual conversation about this...well, that kind of talk just doesn't help.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I did read what you actually wrote. Perhaps you don't realize how your tone is coming across - it is the internet, after all. But when you get into the specifics about how you're raising your kids...well, let me give you the opposite example. If I were to say, "Well, I'm raising MY kids to be compassionate individuals. I teach them about history so that we can recognize our past mistakes, not be like older people who (not always, not everyone, but most of the time, etc.) are often rape apologists and think tradition is more important than standing up for what's right!"

Again, I would not actually say this. It's a theme park ride and is a pretty awful assumption to make and thing to say about people just because they're not offended by that scene in the ride. But come on. That would clearly go beyond addressing the actual ride to insulting other people's beliefs/opinions/parenting. And that is how your post read to me. I suspect I'm not the only one, and to have an actual conversation about this...well, that kind of talk just doesn't help.

Disagree on just about all points. But that's ok. It's a discussion board, after all -- that happens.

 

[Disney_and_Wine]

I see it as 1) something depicting PIRATES, whom I do not expect to behave appropriately, and 2) in the context of when it "happened" and 3) in the context of when the ride was created.

As to #1, there is no historical evidence that pirates actually did this, so it can't be a depiction of anything specific. I suppose if one wanted to show pirates behaving inappropriately, but doing so by depicting things they never actually did, there could be scenes ranging from them tossing kittens into a blender to leaving the toilet seat up. There are no limits to what one can depict if one is making stuff up that never happened. Some of it would be funny. Some, not so much.

As to #2, see #1. If it never happened, then the context of "when it happened" means little to nothing.

As to #3, The context of when the ride was created can be explained by the fact that Disney had no female Imagineers on staff and that a bunch of old guys sitting around the drawing room thought that this would be funny. I have no doubt that this was the case. The question then becomes: is that reason enough to keep the joke alive.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

As to #1, there is no historical evidence that pirates actually did this, so it can't be a depiction of anything specific. I suppose if one wanted to show pirates behaving inappropriately, but doing so by depicting things they never actually did, there could be scenes ranging from them tossing kittens into a blender to leaving the toilet seat up. There are no limits to what one can depict if one is making stuff up that never happened. Some of it would be funny. Some, not so much.

As to #2, see #1. If it never happened, then the context of "when it happened" means little to nothing.

As to #3, The context of when the ride was created can be explained by the fact that Disney had no female Imagineers on staff and that a bunch of old guys sitting around the drawing room thought that this would be funny. I have no doubt that this was the case. The question then becomes: is that reason enough to keep the joke alive.

I've got to be honest: I really don't personally care if this is a fully historically accurate depiction of pirates. I don't ride pirates for an educational experience -- does anyone?

It's really this simple FOR ME: 1) pirates behaved badly, 2) pirates are not role models, 3) this is a theme park ride with no ill intent, created many years ago, 4) no one who created it meant to condone ANYTHING -- selling brides OR setting cities on fire, 5) if the market speaks and this is truly in the best business interests of Disney, so be it -- I don't know if this is really the case -- don't think any of us do -- THIS POLL SO FAR SUGGESTS IT MIGHT NOT BE THE CASE -- who knows, 6) our family will continue to not be offended by this particular theme park ride scene.

We can disagree.

 

[danikoski]

As to #3, The context of when the ride was created can be explained by the fact that Disney had no female Imagineers on staff and that a bunch of old guys sitting around the drawing room thought that this would be funny. I have no doubt that this was the case. The question then becomes: is that reason enough to keep the joke alive.

Actually, from what I understand there was a female imagineer who worked on PoTC at DL and, from what I've read on the DIS, had a hand in designing the red headed woman.

Does that mean the scene had to stay, no. And I do believe this change has a lot to do with the trend of having more strong female leads in movies and TV shows and such. The already have girls who do the Pirated League, so adding a woman pirate promotes the trend of beyond princesses even more (not that princesses can't be completely bad a**, but not all girls want to be princesses). And thanks to the PoTC movies, not all pirates are bad.

 

[Disney_and_Wine]

I've got to be honest: I really don't personally care if this is a fully historically accurate depiction of pirates. I don't ride pirates for an educational experience -- does anyone?

Of course not. It's just that your reasons #1 and #2 taken together read as if you are not bothered by the scene because it depicts what "happened", when it "happened." (Your word, not mine.) I am simply pointing out that it never did. That just leaves reason #3 which I think fully explains the inclusion of the scene. A bunch of guys thought it was funny. No more complicated than that.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Of course not. It's just that your reasons #1 and #2 taken together read as if you are not bothered by the scene because it depicts what "happened", when it "happened." (Your word, not mine.) I am simply pointing out that it never did. That just leaves reason #3 which I think fully explains the inclusion of the scene. A bunch of guys thought it was funny. No more complicated than that.

Understood. I would just say that today, a bunch of PEOPLE still like the scene -- women included -- or at least aren't bothered by it.

No matter the topic on DIS (or anywhere!) I divorce my personal feelings from what a company SHOULD do. If many/most people think it should go, that would be the right choice for Disney. I don't know that this is actually the case. While not a scientific poll (!!), the one here suggests that most aren't offended. On that I appear to be in the majority... at least for now...

 

[Disney_and_Wine]

Actually, from what I understand there was a female imagineer who worked on PoTC at DL and, from what I've read on the DIS, had a hand in designing the red headed woman.

It was Alice Davis, Marc Davis' his wife, and she was a costume designer. Here is a good article on the history of the attraction.
http://www.disneyavenue.com/2016/09/imagineers-remember-creating-pirates-of.html?m=1