We want Riviera, but can’t pull the trigger.

[StitchesGr8Fan]

We fell in love with the Riviera rooms when we took the tour, and have a severe case of addonitis. But we just can’t get ourselves to do it right now, even though we could pay cash for direct points. The resale restrictions have us spooked, and I’ve seen rumors posted about better incentives or the restrictions being changed. *sigh* We will sit tight for now and be responsible adults. Adulting is hard.

 

[MinBz]

Same here. Would love to buy add on points at Riviera.. I think it’s going to be amazing when it opens and can’t wait to visit the resort next year. Hoping they change their minds about the restrictions.

 

[Smoknchip]

DVC is not going to take away restrictions in my opinion.

If you can buy direct at cash I am wondering why you care about the restrictions to begin with? We bought back in April 200 pts at best developer credit. I never say never but I don’t think that the credit will ever be better than what it was then.

If sales are tanking they will lift the resale restrictions.

 

[RaymOOOnd]

If you buy, you just need to be sure that you'll want the contract for 50 full years (and to pay dues for that full period, whatever they end up being). Because there's a chance that nobody will want to buy it from you for any respectable price.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

DVC is not going to take away restrictions in my opinion.

If you can buy direct at cash I am wondering why you care about the restrictions to begin with? We bought back in April 200 pts at best developer credit. I never say never but I don’t think that the credit will ever be better than what it was then.

If sales are tanking they will lift the resale restrictions.

We care because although we have no plans to sell, but life happens and some times people have to.

The developer credit might be the best they ever offer, but we were not in a position to buy outright at that time. We will not finance. Since we toured they’ve already increased the promotions to extra “free” points and a something with the fixed weeks (which I think is rare but I don’t know the details because we aren’t interest in a fixed week).

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

If you buy, you just need to be sure that you'll want the contract for 50 full years (and to pay dues for that full period, whatever they end up being). Because there's a chance that nobody will want to buy it from you for any respectable price.

Exactly. Of course our intention is to use it for all 50 years. But what if we can’t?

 

[The Jackal]

Rent out the points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

DVC is not going to take away restrictions in my opinion.

If you can buy direct at cash I am wondering why you care about the restrictions to begin with? We bought back in April 200 pts at best developer credit. I never say never but I don’t think that the credit will ever be better than what it was then.

If sales are tanking they will lift the resale restrictions.

Since the reason to have them is to encourage direct sales then if enough people are not buying because of the restrictions, it's far from improbable. And they went beyond the usual "we can change what we want" and specifically included wording that they can drop the restrictions. They weren't certain how it would go and if it doesn't help drive people to direct from resale purchases? It's an easy thing to drop and get some quick sales.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Rent our the points.

That’s a lot of stress to go through every year if we are unable to use the points ourselves.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

That’s a lot of stress to go through every year if we are unable to use the points ourselves.

And zero guarantees how the rental market will continue to be.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

Maybe just wait until Riviera resale starts hitting the market. Either one of two things will happen:

1. Resale restrictions will crush the demand for Rivera resale, which means that buying Riviera resale will be super cheap

Or

2. Resale Riveria still has good demand despite the restrictions. Then maybe you would feel more comfortable buying direct.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

And zero guarantees how the rental market will continue to be.

Exactly!

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Maybe just wait until Riviera resale starts hitting the market. Either one of two things will happen:

1. Resale restrictions will crush the demand for Rivera resale, which means that buying Riviera resale will be super cheap

Or

2. Resale Riveria still has good demand despite the restrictions. Then maybe you would feel more comfortable buying direct.

That is what we will do - wait. But it is hard to make the responsible decision sometimes.

 

[CarolMN]

That is what we will do - wait. But it is hard to make the responsible decision sometimes.

Sure is!

want RR, too and would buy direct now if the resale restrictions didn't exist. I'm going to wait and see what happens. Maybe the 7 month booking opportunities will be sufficient, maybe the resale value will make RR an OK deal, maybe the restrictions will be removed, maybe a rental stay will satisfy.

It also makes sense to me to wait to see what happens with annual fees in 2020. RR dues seem very high relative to the other resorts, but if the other resorts see significant increases for 2020, that may not matter as much.

But I still want to buy right now! Didn't feel that way about any of the other resorts, even though I enjoyed our stays. RR is different! I feel like a 2 year old!

 

[kboo]

If you can buy direct at cash I am wondering why you care about the restrictions to begin with? We bought back in April 200 pts at best developer credit. I never say never but I don’t think that the credit will ever be better than what it was then.

I think this is the key question for anyone considering buying RIV. IF there's a huge recession and resale prices tank, how well can you weather that? Would you need to resell, and could you survive getting pennies on the dollar? That would be a consideration no matter where you added on - while you might lose less if you had to resell, say, BLT or VGF or SSR, no question that if a big recession hit, everyone will take a hit. Also, how serious is your addonitis? One reason why we added yet more points in April was because we knew we "needed" (first world needs, of course) more points to use starting in December 2019. The choices was BLT resale (with its own restrictions) or RIV direct, and we had already put off buying BCV or BWV for 3 years. The developer credit made RIV direct competitive with BLT resale on a per-point cost comparison, and got us better access to EP/HS which we are very excited about. We are already blue card holders, so this was not about perks and more about timing and what fit our plans.

(And if the economy tanks and we are looking to add on, it would most likely be at BLT resale)

 

[kniquy]

I think if you are buying cash and will not have a loan on the property it isn't as risky if you were to have a mortgage on it. I say this because if you were in the situation where you felt you couldn't afford your DVC MF then you could rent out your points to cover the MF plus a little extra in your pocket. All while keeping your contract but it not really costing you anything.

I think many people buy in and if a life situation comes up they know that they could sell their DVC for some easy/quick cash. I think if you go into it knowing that the initial purchase cash is gone and spent, then you can feel comfortable with your decision.

Of course you could recoup some money if you decided to sell buy it will likely be at only 40-50% of what you initially purchased it at. If this happens 10 years from now -- then you would have had 10 or so vacations for the money spent and gone (+MF).

This is very rough math but trying to see the potential picture if you have to sell.
-Say you buy 100 points now for $19000 (guessing on the price).
-In 10 years Riv resale is selling for $90 per point - So you get back ~$9000 from your initial purchase if you sell
- those 10 years of vacations cost you $10000 + your yearly MF (~$8000-10,000) Total of $18,000-20,000 for 10 vacations ~$2000 for your room per trip

does this investment make sense to you? Does this work out to actually be a savings compared to other hotel room options? If so go ahead, but if not then maybe re-think.

The big difference is in the value of the resales -- many members have enjoyed taking vacations for years and then selling their membership for more than they bought in. Making their vacations/rooms super cheap. My AK contract that i bought in 2015 could sell for $40 more per point.

I think if you have addonitis -- the best approach now would actually to buy an older resort direct - you will have access to Riveria and if you need to sell that contract it would still hold better value than a Riveria resale contract.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Sure is!

want RR, too and would buy direct now if the resale restrictions didn't exist. I'm going to wait and see what happens. Maybe the 7 month booking opportunities will be sufficient, maybe the resale value will make RR an OK deal, maybe the restrictions will be removed, maybe a rental stay will satisfy.

It also makes sense to me to wait to see what happens with annual fees in 2020. RR dues seem very high relative to the other resorts, but if the other resorts see significant increases for 2020, that may not matter as much.

But I still want to buy right now! Didn't feel that way about any of the other resorts, even though I enjoyed our stays. RR is different! I feel like a 2 year old!

Want to start a support group?

 

[ELMC]

I think if you are buying cash and will not have a loan on the property it isn't as risky if you were to have a mortgage on it. I say this because if you were in the situation where you felt you couldn't afford your DVC MF then you could rent out your points to cover the MF plus a little extra in your pocket. All while keeping your contract but it not really costing you anything.

I think many people buy in and if a life situation comes up they know that they could sell their DVC for some easy/quick cash. I think if you go into it knowing that the initial purchase cash is gone and spent, then you can feel comfortable with your decision.

Of course you could recoup some money if you decided to sell buy it will likely be at only 40-50% of what you initially purchased it at. If this happens 10 years from now -- then you would have had 10 or so vacations for the money spent and gone (+MF).

This is very rough math but trying to see the potential picture if you have to sell.
-Say you buy 100 points now for $19000 (guessing on the price).
-In 10 years Riv resale is selling for $90 per point - So you get back ~$9000 from your initial purchase if you sell
- those 10 years of vacations cost you $10000 + your yearly MF (~$8000-10,000) Total of $18,000-20,000 for 10 vacations ~$2000 for your room per trip

does this investment make sense to you? Does this work out to actually be a savings compared to other hotel room options? If so go ahead, but if not then maybe re-think.

The big difference is in the value of the resales -- many members have enjoyed taking vacations for years and then selling their membership for more than they bought in. Making their vacations/rooms super cheap. My AK contract that i bought in 2015 could sell for $40 more per point.

I think if you have addonitis -- the best approach now would actually to buy an older resort direct - you will have access to Riveria and if you need to sell that contract it would still hold better value than a Riveria resale contract.

I see what you're doing here and don't disagree with the numbers or the premise. To extend on what you suggest I would like to add that using your math, 100 points equates to anywhere between 3-6 nights in a studio per year or 1.5-3 nights in a 1BR depending on room view and time of year. So using those numbers, the $2,000 per trip equates to anywhere between $300 and $600 per night in a studio and a whopping $700 to $1,300 per night in a 1BR. So the question is, do you really need to shell out close to $20,000 and subject yourself to the risks of ownership and resale just to pay those prices?

Perhaps yes, perhaps no, I think the answer varies per person. The problem is, DVC used to be a slam dunk no brainer for the majority of people considering ownership. Now it's become an exercise in mathematical gymnastics.

To the OP: congrats on your restraint. So hard to do, but so rewarding when you do it. I would say that if there is any doubt whatsoever, it's probably best to hold off.

 

[mustinjourney]

I think if you have addonitis -- the best approach now would actually to buy an older resort direct - you will have access to Riveria and if you need to sell that contract it would still hold better value than a Riveria resale contract.

The cost spread between sold out direct resorts and their resale value is currently about $60 to $80 for many of the resorts -- so buying Riviera is really not that much more of a risk at this point.

 

[Momtomouselover]

I’m also having a hard time pulling the trigger. The high MFs to start don’t help and uncertainty on increases too (given 2019). However, resale restrictions are a big part of my hesitation.