we got an aspie x today and I thougth it adhd

[treehugnmama]

UPDATE I spoke with the child psychiatrists office today and he has given her a formal dionosis of aspers from our previous meeting. When I questioned only spending 10 minutes with her I was told that he took a very in depth report from us (which he did) and meeting her for 10 minutes was all it took to confirm. I asked if I would recieve something in writing and I was told if I requested it from the DR yes. I asked about the lack of social issues...no issue with eye contact, seeks out friends etc and was told to count that as a blessing. Although I still have some doubt I am starting to accept it. Thanks for the Tony attwood reccomendation I have read the book. Based on his book lots of peices fit but many don't but maybey that is why it is on the spectum.









SO I am really shocked. We saw a child psychologist today. I work in early intervention but am too close to the situtation and emoionally involved (my dd and all lol) So she just turned 6 and she really doesn't the social "issues" but she does have the sesory sensitivities. I have seen 3 dr's and an OT and I have been told...dcd by ot. I have been told gifted my one dr. Told no issues by another and now "aspergers and probably adhd but we will cross that bridge when it becomes a problem at school". I question this diognosis...not because I don't want it but because the social interations seem to be ok. She has empathy and is expressive with her feelings or atleast that is what I precieve them to be.

I really know very little about aspergers. From what «i do know some symptoms fit but many do not. I was told We are blessed as ``many of the negative symotoms are very mild`` If anyone has any in sight for me or somewhere to start I would be very appreciative.

I am just worried about the wrong diognosis...I know she has a mental health issue. I also don``t know what I keep doing as a parent and what I need to change. I feel like I missed this. I help get young children into early intervention at a young age and I didn`t even help my daughter.

 

[C&G'sMama]

If I've learned nothing else from Bookwormde it's read "The Complete Guide to Aspergers" by Tony Atwood. I don't know much about AS in girls but I do understand it manifests itself differently than in boys. And if as a mom you don't feel this is the right diagnosis, keep at. Even though your in "the business" you're right, your a mom in this case, it's very different.

Our DS is 7 and was diagnosed with AS at 5.

 

[treehugnmama]

thanks I will try and pick it up tomorrow. All the symptoms fit except the social piece which in my understanding is a pretty big piece.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

The social difficulties can be harder to detect in girls because they so often copy the peers. What you will see with girls is a fake type of acting in social situations with no real inherent understanding of what is going on or why. With girls they can be socially accepted into the group because they can show the same interests and are better at mirroring what they see and also adopting more socially acceptable special interests. I would think though that with you being in EI you would know the subtle traits such as social anxiety, face blindness, and lesser eye contact. What criteria did the psychologist use for the dx? Was extensive testing done? I wouldn't trust a dx without a full and complete workup. My daughter was given 10 different tests as well as exhaustive behavioral observation by Autism specialists. It's odd that the psychologist would even consider a co-morbid of ADHD, when most Autism specialists consider hyperactivity as present within the context of the pervasive developmental disorder-it is not usually an added dx.
The sensory piece is very important and should be evaluated.

 

[treehugnmama]

she has always had good eye contact and I have never questioned any issues with that. She seems to show empathy. If she has done something to upset me or had a meltdown she will usually go to her room on her own but she comes down and says sorry i love you later on...but maybey that is a learned behaviour? She gives lots of hugs and has always loved to cuddle.

The child psychologist did a half hr interview with us and than talked to my daughter for 10 minutes. I said to him I don`t really buy in to this diognosis and he said that a lot of the symptoms are subtle but they are still there. He also explained if someone is one day pregnant or 9 months pregnant they are still pregnant. I have a cousin (through marriage) that has a son with aspergers and I think I am going to call her and see if she will go for a cofee.

I usually see the extreme cases at work as I work with preschool age kids and they only seem to get a diognosis that young if it is extreme.
we see the dr again in a month so I need to come up with the `right`questions to ask him.

 

[ireland_nicole]

woah nellie- I would certainly question the psychologists dx. 10 minutes does not an autism assessment make. They should be doing much more extensive testing, including an ADOS, woodcock-johnson or other IQ screening (not just for raw numbers, but to look at how they change in different areas), a test for pragmatic language skills, plus we as parents have always done a lot of tests/paperwork, etc. It takes a day or more, and then we go back for the full results.

* I'm not a educational psych, so I may have gotten names of things off, I'm a nurse and a mom of two w/ "special needs" so I'm thinking of what I remember.

So many girls are misdiagnosed in all directions, I would definitely get another- much more considered opinion.

Also, although autism has a dsmIV code, it is not a "mental illness".

 

[jodifla]

she has always had good eye contact and I have never questioned any issues with that. She seems to show empathy. If she has done something to upset me or had a meltdown she will usually go to her room on her own but she comes down and says sorry i love you later on...but maybey that is a learned behaviour? She gives lots of hugs and has always loved to cuddle.

The child psychologist did a half hr interview with us and than talked to my daughter for 10 minutes. I said to him I don`t really buy in to this diognosis and he said that a lot of the symptoms are subtle but they are still there. He also explained if someone is one day pregnant or 9 months pregnant they are still pregnant. I have a cousin (through marriage) that has a son with aspergers and I think I am going to call her and see if she will go for a cofee.

I usually see the extreme cases at work as I work with preschool age kids and they only seem to get a diognosis that young if it is extreme.
we see the dr again in a month so I need to come up with the `right`questions to ask him.

Don't bother going back to this person! This was a woefully inadequate evaluation!!!

Again, just because a "professional" labels your kid, doesn't mean the label is right. The credentials of the person is EVERYTHING in this field since the Dx is basically nothing but their opinion (particularly if they do no testing!)

Look around, find the best clinician who is also known for being accurate 5, 10, 20 years down the road.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

she has always had good eye contact and I have never questioned any issues with that. She seems to show empathy. If she has done something to upset me or had a meltdown she will usually go to her room on her own but she comes down and says sorry i love you later on...but maybey that is a learned behaviour? She gives lots of hugs and has always loved to cuddle.

The child psychologist did a half hr interview with us and than talked to my daughter for 10 minutes. I said to him I don`t really buy in to this diognosis and he said that a lot of the symptoms are subtle but they are still there. He also explained if someone is one day pregnant or 9 months pregnant they are still pregnant. I have a cousin (through marriage) that has a son with aspergers and I think I am going to call her and see if she will go for a cofee.

I usually see the extreme cases at work as I work with preschool age kids and they only seem to get a diognosis that young if it is extreme.
we see the dr again in a month so I need to come up with the `right`questions to ask him.

Children on the spectrum CAN show empathy, it's a fallacy that they don't. What you might see is lack of empathy with peers such as an instance when a boy in my daughter's class had a cast and instead of feeling bad for him she was more interested in why the cast was there, what the cast was made of, if he could move his fingers, etc. She didn't feel bad for him for the injury itself.

My daughter is very huggy and kissy too so that's another fallacy that spectrum kiddos aren't lovable. The difference is that it's usually on THEIR terms, for instance they might reject your hugs & kisses if they aren't ready/prepared/desiring of that attention at that time.

Does she always have good eye contact? At age six perhaps the eye contact piece is harder to detect as some girls can come off shy. For my daughter the lack of eye contact became more and more pronounced as time went on. At 5-6 she had some eye contact. Now she has very little, espcially with anyone other than family or close friends.

As for the social differences, as a prent you can clue in to this by watching your daughter around other children. Is she "there"? Is she "in" to the conversation/activity? Or is she someone in her own "world" playing parrallel? My daughter's music teacher told me she never suspected or witnessed any social issues with my daughter when observed in music class-this is because my daughter LOVES music-however when she observed the reg classroom she was amazed at the differences she saw.

This is why you need to seek out a specialist in Autism. They know what variations to watch for.

 

[treehugnmama]

graceloves wdw thanks for you post it was very helpfull. My dd does have good eye contact all the time. She does play with other kids but she also does observe them. When I watch her on a play date it is painfull as she directs all of the play. However if the play date takes place at a pool she is right into swimming with her friends. I am on the waitlist for a formal assessment. we have been waiting for 7 months

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

A good assessment is worth the wait. And just because there is a long waitlist doesn't mean they are good at ASD diagnosis. It is really, REALLY critical that you find someone specialized in this. A Neuropsych is a good option or sometimes a Child Psychiatrist. In our experience the Dev Pedi and Therapists were of no use. I have been told now that the only people who should be dealing with my daughter and her complex presentation and issues is either a Child Psychologist (usually a PhD level grad) or higher (like Psychiatrist-which I don't prefer because most push meds). It is in my opinion a waste of time to deal with LSW, PC, and the like. I have wasted too much time and my daughter's with well meaning but misinformed care providers. I am sure there are a few good ones out there but in our experience it's been more bad than good. A bad therapist can do more harm to our kids than you would imagine.

The controlling way that she directs the play is probably due to social anxiety. As C&G's Mama mentioned, get the Attwood book and read it. It will open your eyes.

 

[treehugnmama]

I am in ontario and it works very differently here. I am on the waitlist for the children's mental health department and they are the ones that do asd or any mental health dx. There is only one child psychiatrist on staff. So once our turn comes up we will see a different child psychiatrist and they do the assessment. We were considered in crisis mode because dd would not go out side to the backyard for a month do to anxiety of spider so we saw this child psychiatrist while waiting. Not a lot of options and very little funding. I do have the option of seeing a developmental ped instead but can only see one or the other?

 

[Schmeck]

Questions to ask yourself - what do you want/expect out of a diagnosis? Are there services available that you think your daughter will benefit from? Go from there, and decide what you want to pursue.

Also, don't forget that all behavior is learned behavior - we are a social species, and we all have to learn empathy, it is not innate knowledge. Some of us just take longer to figure it out.

 

[2luvmickey]

I can certainly understand your frustration and confusion. My DS 19 was just diagnosed with Asperger's in June 2009. For TEN years we have been looking for answers (four psychologists, one psychiatrist and countless school counselors) because my son was able to manage just under the radar. He is very bright and knew how to figure things out via his own trial and error.

The ASD became more apparent once puberty hit. He became more socially withdrawn, couldn't make eye contact, developed tics, etc. It took a complete assessment - two days of testing, questionnaires filled out by two teachers and both parents, and talking to us and him. THEN, we were given the diagnosis. All in all, it took a few months start to finish.

One psychiatrist talked to my son for 15 minutes and pronounced him just fine. Well, obviously he wasn't. I'm sorry the poor guy had to go through most of his school years misunderstood.

Happy news: he is now a college freshman (just took him yesterday) with a wonderful network of support from educations, peer mentors and family.

As a parent, we know our children best. Never give up and follow that inner voice inside. I'm glad I did.

 

[bookwormde]

If the clinician just indicated the potential for an Aspergers diagnosis and they appear ant characteristics then that is the first step and is appropriate. For a proper evaluation it takes multiple evaluation tools and even for the most experience clinicians at least an hour to check all the characteristics ( in relatively obvious cases). They also need to check for other so-morbid or coincident issues that can distort the evaluation.
Girls are much harder to "detect" than boys for many reasons. Eye contact and "empathy" are not good indicators for higher functioning kids unless you dig much deeper into their presentation. You need to find a clinical center that specializes in ASD to get a real evolution.
You have to forget about what you perceive as classic Autism since our kids often exhibit quite differently, especially if they are highly intelligent self adapters (often they do not qualify for a formal diagnosis and are just considered aspies, but they have the same needs for supports if their gifts are going to flourish).
Read Attwood a witch is available on Amazon for about $17 and you will be in a much better position to understand and discuss your child.
Also beware that most kids who are Apsergers or Aspies have a different attention style and are often misdiagnosed as ADHD. IF she is not hyperactive (and not just lacking social perception of her presentation and a social throttle to "act" like her peers) and can attend to here areas of special interest for exceptional periods of time then she is not ADHD.
Congratulations on having a very special child with amazing gifts.

bookwormde

 

[bookwormde]

Schmeck

"Also, don't forget that all behavior is learned behavior - we are a social species, and we all have to learn empathy, it is not innate knowledge. Some of us just take longer to figure it out. "

Many "behaviors" have genetic neurological pattern and structures that make them innate. NTs societal social skills are based and driven by their genetics. This is true in all species not just humans. Those who have Autism genetics do not have these innate behaviors or the neurological structures to "naturally pick up and learn" social behavior and have to rely on intellectual portions of the brain to mimic them through intellectual effort.

Our kids do not lack empathy but some have not learned the compensatory social skills of how to recognize when empathy is needed and or how to supply support for the person. Girls typically are much better at it (I am guessing it has something to do with innate maternal genetics and behaviors)

bookwormde

 

[treehugnmama]

thanks for all the help. I have Tonny Attwoods book on hold at the library and pick it up monday. In th emeantime I have read a parent's guide to Aspergers and hfautism by sally ozonoff. When I asked about seeing someone that specializes in Autism or aspergers I was told that in our region (500 thousand people) that all the Child psychiatrist are lacking in that area.

I just found out my 3 year old need ANOTHER surgery so when I got to Toronto for that I will ask for a regerreal in Toronto for Daughter if possible.

I also have to say since last Tuesday I tried to take my blinders off and look at things differently...I am seeing many more "issues/symptoms".

I am going back to the Dr we saw in two weeks and am hoping to have more questions asnwered and am going to give him another chance while I am waiting for a "better" option.

thanks to everyone your imput has helped me a lot. Any links or good websites to read are appreciate.

 

[Dancind]

I think this site is good, it simply lays out the differences between males and females with aspergers. It really helped with my daughter but she's older.

http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/wp_a58d4f6a.html

 

[jodifla]

I still would NOT accept a Dx from a person who only spent 10 minutes with my child. I'd get a second opinion from a TRUE expert who is engaged and concerned enough to spend time with your child.