We buy tickets? What??

[BuzzandAriel'smom]

What's the deal with all the local area gift shops buying tickets? If I had a day left and sold it to them, how could anyone use it? My finger scan is attatched. I heard the guy talking about buying 1 day for $10. How much is he selling them for and is this legal? I realize that it's bad for Disney but it just seems shady. Anyone know anything about this? In all the years I have been on these boards I've never heard about this.

 

[Upatnoon]

Disney tickets are non-transferable, meaning the ticket is linked to your fingerprint and won't work for someone else. It is also illegal to sell them in florida.

http://myfloridalegal.com/newsrel.nsf/0/23A94D576766169B852569060070BEA0?OpenDocument

 

[BuzzandAriel'smom]

So it is illegal for them to sell. Seems like it would be easy to crack down on since they are advertising with huge signs and doing business right by the checkout of the gift shops. I guess it's kinda like ticket scalping outside a concert? Just found it interesting that they can advertise an illegal business.

 

[js]

We were at BB the week before Easter and was waiting to get in and my dh was talking to the CM at the turnstyle. He asked him the same question.
The CM told my dh that Disney doesn't encourage them but doesn't discourage them either. My dh then asked about the finger scanner. He said that they just reset the scanner, just like if you put your card through and your finger scan doesn't work (it's happned to most everyone in my family), they just push a button and rescan.
We own DVC and at OLCC and there are plenty around OLCC. I may do this the next time we are there and see how it works out.

 

[GingerJay]

What's the deal with all the local area gift shops buying tickets? If I had a day left and sold it to them, how could anyone use it? My finger scan is attatched. I heard the guy talking about buying 1 day for $10. How much is he selling them for and is this legal? I realize that it's bad for Disney but it just seems shady. Anyone know anything about this? In all the years I have been on these boards I've never heard about this.

I noticed this for the first time on my trip this year (have always stayed onsite before, so that's probably why). I couldn't believe it either...I would be leary of taking a used ticket to WDW.

 

[FSUFanChris]

I noticed this for the first time on my trip this year (have always stayed onsite before, so that's probably why). I couldn't believe it either...I would be leary of taking a used ticket to WDW.

Me too. Has anyone here actually done this?

 

[shalom]

The third post on this page (Cheshire Figment's) discusses one way people try to reuse tickets and Disney's response.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2446460&page=5

I've read on other boards where people used those tickets. The theory is that the finger print scanners aren't always on, meaning some people get away with it sometimes. The odds of it succeeding are supposedly highest on busy days, since that's when the scanners are most likely to be off. It's clearly a form of theft, and people often get caught, but some people are willing to risk it.

 

[Brian Noble]

I would not assume that the biometrics will be turned off, or reset if you don't pass them.

 

[dioxide45]

The finger scan is really just for one purpose. To make sure the ticket isn't used for multiple entries the same day by different people. Say I am in a group of four. Two people go in with two tickets. One person leaves with both tickets and brings in another person, leaves again and brings in the fourth person. The finger scan prevents this because they can see that someone already entered with that ticket and are trying again but the scan doesn't match.

If I take a ticket in one day and then go back a few days later and the scan won't take, they just reset it and rescan and I am on my way.

Disney could make it so they enforce the finger scan on all days, but what if something is really wrong with the scan and the person is legitimately trying to enter. Resetting the scan is the easy solution. These places know that.

 

[Brian Noble]

The scan is not always reset on different days. If the ticket is signed and/or has a name printed on it, they will ask to see ID before resetting it---and I have personally seen that done at opening, before the ticket could have possibly been used by anyone else that day.

I suppose this policy could have been changed since I saw this (this past February), but ultimately all the scan really needs to do is to discourge enough people from trying to keep the losses down.

Edited: and, if you think about it, the "old" system of handstamps already solved the same-day re-use problem, as long as the stamp isn't easily copied/mirrored/guessed. If the ticket was used that day, the person holding it has to have today's stamp. There is no reason to spend all that money on scans unless you want to solve the different-day problem...or at least give the impression that you are solving it.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

The scan is not always reset on different days. If the ticket is signed and/or has a name printed on it, they will ask to see ID before resetting it---and I have personally seen that done at opening, before the ticket could have possibly been used by anyone else that day.

I suppose this policy could have been changed since I saw this (this past February), but ultimately all the scan really needs to do is to discourge enough people from trying to keep the losses down.

Edited: and, if you think about it, the "old" system of handstamps already solved the same-day re-use problem, as long as the stamp isn't easily copied/mirrored/guessed. If the ticket was used that day, the person holding it has to have today's stamp. There is no reason to spend all that money on scans unless you want to solve the different-day problem...or at least give the impression that you are solving it.

I don't want to get into the do or don't do that with the tickets, but I did want to say that the only tickets that have anyones name embossed on them are annual, seasonal & that new weekday annual pass... regular multi-day do not have the names on them, only if one signs them... and those types of passes with the names embossed on them are not re-sold.

 

[Brian Noble]

Anything that's tied to a room key on a pacakge would, as well---though perhaps not if it's split. I've never tried that.

Edited: I'm also reminded that once---several years ago now, maybe the first year of MYW?---the TTC had gates up with guests being funneled through a few points. CMs were stationed to look at tickets, and sending guests over to tables to sign unsinged tickets. We had to sign ours before they'd let us up the monorail platform. I thought it was very odd at the time, and I don't think I've ever seen that since.

 

[serene56]

I don't want to get into the do or don't do that with the tickets, but I did want to say that the only tickets that have anyones name embossed on them are annual, seasonal & that new weekday annual pass... regular multi-day do not have the names on them, only if one signs them... and those types of passes with the names embossed on them are not re-sold.

I thought the room card/addmission ticket had our names on it.

So when we take all 7 cards for FP-- how do we know whose card is who'

we have dining linked and I am sure it will be different through out the week.

 

[Brian Noble]

It turns out that tickets sold together in a single transactions are "linked". That way, if Bobby mistakenly swaps his ticket with Susie, no big deal---something that often happens with families or groups that travel together but have one person hold the tickets.

This wouldn't work if you are buying through a broker (like Undercover Tourist) but will if you buy directly from Disney *in a single transaction*. Any tickets that are part of a package would be treated that way.

 

[Purseval]

The Unofficial Guide did a test of the finger scanners and found that they could be easily fooled, which makes sense because they aren't supposed to be fingerprint scanners (that would be too costly) they just get a general impression. I have also personally seen where the scanner fails and the people are passed through anyway because the CM just assumes the couple swapped each others tickets by mistake.

Finally, if you really need proof that resold tickets work just look on Ebay or in the areas surrounding WDW. If they didn't work the market for them would dry up.

 

[gibbersome]

It turns out that tickets sold together in a single transactions are "linked". That way, if Bobby mistakenly swaps his ticket with Susie, no big deal---something that often happens with families or groups that travel together but have one person hold the tickets.

This wouldn't work if you are buying through a broker (like Undercover Tourist) but will if you buy directly from Disney *in a single transaction*. Any tickets that are part of a package would be treated that way.

Now that biometrics has cut down on scalped tickets and ticket fraud, how about Disney reduce ticket prices?

 

[Brian Noble]

Good idea. Perhaps you should suggest it to them.

found that they could be easily fooled

Well, yes, and no. As has been mentioned, tickets purchased together can be freely interchanged. Also, they do turn off the scan checking from time to time---mostly when they need to get a big bunch of people through the gates quickly. Once you get a feel for how the turnstiles work, you can tell when they are on or off, because the turnstile unlocks almost at the same time the scanner flashes when they are off, but there is a perceptable delay when they are on. (Security people call this a "timing attack").

But, when they are on, you've got somewhere between a 1/1000 and 1/10,000 chance of getting a "false positive" for a ticket that isn't directly or indirectly linked to your reading---it's a verification scheme, not an identification scheme, and it's tilted in favor of false positives (allowing guests in when it shouldn't) rather than false negatives, for obvious reasons. We've tried swapping UCT tickets (so, they are not linked), and when the scan is actually being used, it's pretty good at spotting swapped tickets.

But, at the end of the day, it doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to be "pretty good", because they just need to catch people with a high enough probability to discourage most people. Heck, even if they left the scan off permanently, but just went through the motions, that would probably be enough of a deterrent. While there is still a market for "used" tickets, it's a lot smaller than it was before MYW was brought into being; partly, that's because most tickets now expire, but I think this also contributes.

 

[RabFlmom]

The thing that would make me never buy a ticket from one of the ticket booths or people standing outside convenience stores buying and selling reused tickets......there is no way to even tell if there are any unused days on the tickets you buy. I would be embarrassed to death to bring my family to the gate and be denied entrance because I bought completely used up tickets.

 

[BellaBaby]

It turns out that tickets sold together in a single transactions are "linked". That way, if Bobby mistakenly swaps his ticket with Susie, no big deal---something that often happens with families or groups that travel together but have one person hold the tickets.

This wouldn't work if you are buying through a broker (like Undercover Tourist) but will if you buy directly from Disney *in a single transaction*. Any tickets that are part of a package would be treated that way.

That's interesting since we always purchase from UCT and have lost 1 ticket in our group more than once. We were told by Disney that in fact the tickets are linked and they were able to reissue a ticket because of this. It has happened twice and no problem whatsoever with replacing the lost ticket.

 

[Brian Noble]

They might be using a different sense of "linked". If you have your ticket numbers (or a photocopy of the back) the ticket can be re-issued and the old one invalidated. This might have changed in the past few years, but as far as I know, UCT (or any broker) does not tell Disney what tickets are sold to whom when---and that's one of the reasons why you always hear how important it is to photocopy the backs, or write down the numbers. Without that, replacing them becomes a lot harder.