WDW to prevent AP holders from visiting parks many mornings

[BeachClub2014]

People complain about parks being unavailable now, imagine how busy they would be if they pulled the reservation system. They'd be available, but no one would actually want to be there (we know they'd go anyways tho, and complain about how miserable it is).

It would be like it was before the reservation system. People have been complaining about the parks being busy for the 30 years we've been going.

 

[BeachClub2014]

It’s 8:15 and HS officially opens in 15 minutes, so it’s early time right now. Slinky, ROTR, and MMRR are all closed, and ToT is still half closed for construction, I think.

This is why this park needs reservations. There are going to be a lot of people going back to the pool if they walk into that.

Edit: 8:30 MMRR is back up, but not slinky or ROTR. Whew. That is going to be a crowded morning.

I would hope that Disney would actually keep the attractions running and offer more things to do in the park versus lower allowable attendance to match functioning ride capacity.

 

[lowlight]

I would like to read your rationale for that.

I think you will see a lot more DVC contracts on the resale market if APs are discontinued. As it is, there are numerous reports of crowding at resort pools and QS locations because members are doing resort-only trips or greatly reducing their park time due to the lack of APs.

Some people are independently wealthy and would prefer not to mix with the unwashed masses. Some people are just at different points in their lives and don't have young children, so none of the Disney changes affect them. That's what it usually boils down to in a case such as this- "It doesn't affect me, or I have enough money to overcome it, so I don't care how it affects anyone else". There's probably a percentage of people here that would vote to ban children from Disney because it affects their experience negatively.

 

[whiteness]

Some people are independently wealthy and would prefer not to mix with the unwashed masses. Some people are just at different points in their lives and don't have young children, so none of the Disney changes affect them. That's what it usually boils down to in a case such as this- "It doesn't affect me, or I have enough money to overcome it, so I don't care how it affects anyone else". There's probably a percentage of people here that would vote to ban children from Disney because it affects their experience negatively.

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Could this be the direction Chapek wants to take the Disney Parks? Probably. At least we will still have Universal...

 

[Smugpugmug]

Some people are independently wealthy and would prefer not to mix with the unwashed masses. Some people are just at different points in their lives and don't have young children, so none of the Disney changes affect them. That's what it usually boils down to in a case such as this- "It doesn't affect me, or I have enough money to overcome it, so I don't care how it affects anyone else". There's probably a percentage of people here that would vote to ban children from Disney because it affects their experience negatively.

I think there's a little bit of truth to this but let me explain. I remember reading a demographics study from 2018-2019 ish of the types of people that go to WDW and it found that around 45% of people going to WDW are childless/childfree adults. From my own observations of previous trips, I have noticed A LOT more groups of adults rather than families. I'm one of those childfree adults that go to Disney but I'm not in the "ban kids from Disney" crowd. I know it's easier for me to swallow some of the changes because I don't have kids and I assume it's a similar story for others in my position.

 

[Sandisw]

It would be like it was before the reservation system. People have been complaining about the parks being busy for the 30 years we've been going.

Which is why I like the new system because I know they are trying to spread guests out and capping parks sooner,

As I shared, we adjusted things last June when we saw what was happening. We had someone on an ECV, who also needs to walk at times, and knowing it was full had us adjusting,

It was still crowded, but at least seeing there were still reservations at MK a few days ahead…vs still full the original MK day…we knew it would be somewhat less crowded.

 

[RoseGold]

I remember reading a demographics study from 2018-2019 ish of the types of people that go to WDW and it found that around 45% of people going to WDW are childless/childfree adults. From my own observations of previous trips, I have noticed A LOT more groups of adults rather than families.

I thought it was just that I traveled when school was in, like Feb, so I saw so many adults with no kids. But when I went in this summer, that number sounds right. We were in line for Pooh, and I couldn't see another kid in the line.

For APs, I can see those adults being desirable alongside a Pixie Dust type AP that still blocks school holidays and weekends.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I thought it was just that I traveled when school was in, like Feb, so I saw so many adults with no kids. But when I went in this summer, that number sounds right. We were in line for Pooh, and I couldn't see another kid in the line.

For APs, I can see those adults being desirable alongside a Pixie Dust type AP that still blocks school holidays and weekends.

I went President's day week and mid May. Obviously since kids get off from school President's day week, there were plenty of families there however on both trips I noticed dozens of groups of adults without kids in their party. I agree about the APs. I think Disney is trying to appeal more to this crowd since they'll be willing to spend more (on alcohol at lounges and bars specifically).

 

[tjkraz]

They do not need to have park reservations. Universal and every other park ditched them. They are using park reservations to minimize staffing and maximize profits, guest experience be damned.

I would argue that the guest experience is more likely to be enhanced if attendance is capped at the highest demand parks, and crowds are intentionally balanced across all destinations.

Aside from the fact that you risk getting blocked out of a park if you don't plan ahead, in what way to you think the guest experience has been diminished?

 

[New Mouse]

It would be like it was before the reservation system. People have been complaining about the parks being busy for the 30 years we've been going.

It was actually less crowded typically without the reservation system. People would maybe have a horrible wait time day at say MK but the other 3 parks would be clear. Now they have made everything miserable for everyone most times. There's some genius right there.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It was actually less crowded typically without the reservation system. People would maybe have a horrible wait time day at say MK but the other 3 parks would be clear. Now they have made everything miserable for everyone most times. There's some genius right there.

Yup that matches what our local DISers we know have been saying.

 

[tjkraz]

It was actually less crowded typically without the reservation system. People would maybe have a horrible wait time day at say MK but the other 3 parks would be clear. Now they have made everything miserable for everyone most times. There's some genius right there.

I must be visiting different theme parks. Or at least visiting on different days. I've waited an hour for Rock N Rollercoaster. I've waited an hour for Soarin. I've waited an hour for Kilimanjaro Safari.

Yes, there were times where I would "luck into" a slow park. But there were just as many days when I found myself stuck at the park which inexplicably drew large crowds. (FastPass+ obviously helped mitigate the waits, and seemed even more valuable in parks with fewer rides, but sadly that's no longer part of the equation.)

If there's any grain of truth to this--and three of the four theme parks are seeing larger crowds than before Park Pass--then I guess Disney doesn't have to worry about attendance numbers.

 

[Madame]

I used to follow Josh at easywdw and use his park predictions to plan ADRs around predicted slowest park and he was right more than wrong. If not, just hop to a slower park. Or hit a slower park and line up 3 FP+ for the park predicted to be busiest.

If they’re spreading out crowds & the end goal is equally busy parks then folks who used the above strategy (a lot of DISers I assume) are not getting the same experience. It’s the lack of flexibility I miss most. Even with FP+ there was a certain flexibility. Now it’s like cattle herded to where it most benefits Disney.

 

[whiteness]

I would argue that the guest experience is more likely to be enhanced if attendance is capped at the highest demand parks, and crowds are intentionally balanced across all destinations.

Coercing people to purchase less desirable products by rationing the ones they really want to buy is a bad strategy.

It almost reminds one of how things used to work in the Soviet Union. Everyone wanted to buy nice stuff, but nice stuff was scarce. So people waited in long lines, or did whatever they had to do to get their hands on it. If they couldn't, they were forced to make do with the not so nice alternatives.

Part of those demand imbalances were due to incompetence of the people in charge. They didn't make enough of what people wanted, and they didn't price things appropriately. But the state had a monopoly, so those people kept their jobs (until they didn't...)

We've got the same problems here: it's not "our" fault that demand for Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom don't match their respective capacities. That's Disney's fault. But Disney wants to cram one down our throats while withholding the other. Disney can do that because they are a monopoly (somewhat.) But it doesn't make it a good strategy, any more than it did when central planners did it in "non-market economies."

How do market economies solve imbalances in supply and demand? They don't typically use rationing. That tends to piss people off. They try to increase demand of less desirable products by improving them in the long run, while using pricing to adjust demand in the short run.

How would pricing work in this context? Crowding is kind of a cost and it also affects desirability. You could give people a fixed number of credits they could use to purchase visits, and make some parks more "expensive." You could give people a certain number of free Fastpasses per year per park, and maybe give more for the parks you want them to visit more. You could make Annual pass discounts more generous in some parks than others.

But by far the best way to solve this is to make all of the parks desirability match their capacity. By adding more and better rides and attractions to the less desirable parks. And if Disney hasn't been able to do that, that's on them, not us. They need to fix this.

 

[Jonfw2]

EVERYTHING is supply and demand. Period. Today- due to Covid, pent up demand, people having more money than they did previously, and massive labor and goods shortages- demand far outpaces supply. So prices rise. That's it.

IF the economy actually slows precipitously, then you'll see the deals come back. But not until then.

And regarding the timing of that, my travel agent just told me today that private VIP tours (the highest of the high end ones) are showing as totally sold out at the 60 day window. So the demand isn't going anywhere quite yet.

 

[Madame]

EVERYTHING is supply and demand. Period. Today- due to Covid, pent up demand, people having more money than they did previously, and massive labor and goods shortages- demand far outpaces supply. So prices rise. That's it.

IF the economy actually slows precipitously, then you'll see the deals come back. But not until then.

And regarding the timing of that, my travel agent just told me today that private VIP tours (the highest of the high end ones) are showing as totally sold out at the 60 day window. So the demand isn't going anywhere quite yet.

Yes but they are attempting to manipulate demand. I’m sure it works on the masses, but for a lot of their base it’s not appealing, especially since it costs more.

 

[Jonfw2]

Yes but they are attempting to manipulate demand. I’m sure it works on the masses, but for a lot of their base it’s not appealing, especially since it costs more.

A company can't manipulate demand. They can only manipulate supply.

 

[Madame]

A company can't manipulate demand. They can only manipulate supply.

Well they’re attempting to force people into a park other than their first choice by artificially capping attendance, so I see that as trying to manipulate demand by capping supply.

 

[Jonfw2]

Well they’re attempting to force people into a park other than their first choice by artificially capping attendance, so I see that as trying to manipulate demand by capping supply.

Okay...so they're manipulating supply. Fair enough. This isn't an unusual business tactic, by the way.

Why do you think your favorite restaurant has the swordfish on special tonight? Because they have more swordfish than they'd like- so they feature it. Why does the grocery store put a huge display of something near the entrance that you can throw in your cart on the way out? Because it's a high profit item that they really want you to buy.

 

[Madame]

Okay...so they're manipulating supply. Fair enough. This isn't an unusual business tactic, by the way.

Why do you think your favorite restaurant has the swordfish on special tonight? Because they have more swordfish than they'd like- so they feature it. Why does the grocery store put a huge display of something near the entrance that you can throw in your cart on the way out? Because it's a high profit item that they really want you to buy.

Yes but I can buy something else like beef. Now if they removed other meats or artificially capped how much other alternative protein was available and presented only swordfish…. That’s a better analogy.

ETA I’ll bow out of this conversation now. I see this situation as strong arm manipulation. My BCV March reservation has no tix but I’ll have an active USO AP. I’m not bemoaning what WDW is doing. There are other options. I don’t like being manipulated.