WDW resort going forward

[Aurora0427]

I have a question regarding the conversion of existing rooms to DVC. At the Polynesian, they have simply converted existing rooms into DVC studios- according to Tikiman, none of the rooms will have a full kitchen. Aside from the over the water bungalows, of course. Is a DVC studio at a resort which was specifically built for DVC like WL or the existing BC larger than a normal hotel room, or is the layout the same?

Just wondering if they'll be charging the same amount of money for a hotel room that's simply been converted. Dumb question. Of course they will.

Another question- are they having a tough time filling deluxe simply because of price? If so, do they really need to be charging $500 a night at the GF to make money? If they lowered the room rates a bit, would that help? And I mean lower them so they are more along the lines of what the Waldorf is charging, i.e. under $300 per night. Usually.

 

[AquaDame]

Another question- are they having a tough time filling deluxe simply because of price? If so, do they really need to be charging $500 a night at the GF to make money? If they lowered the room rates a bit, would that help? And I mean lower them so they are more along the lines of what the Waldorf is charging, i.e. under $300 per night. Usually.

It must not be worth it to them.... I know at <$300 a night we'd absolutely go deluxe and never look back and I am certain many others feel the same.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

This has turned into a fascinating thread!

@lockedoutlogic

We are planning an 8-9 night stay for early June next year. Which resorts would you recommend? I love your insights and we want to stay on-site. Off-site is something we just aren't interested in, tbh.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

lockedoutlogic: As a DVC owner, is your average daily spending anywhere close to what it was before you bought DVC (or what it would likely be if you were only visiting once every 5 years as a non-owner?)

I guess I've never really thought of my "average consumption"

So here's the standards approach...

I am a sit down person...we typically do two meals a day... Majority sit downs or the acceptable quicks...

But as far as where...I have stated many times that the list is dwindling.

But that doesn't mean they don't get me. I like the "signatures" that I feel still stand out - artists point, Jiko, California grill, brown derby...notably.

Big fan of the showcase in EPCOT... Walk right past the putrid ones. Still have a fondness for garden grill and coral reef - even though they aren't great.

Buy and large steer clear of the majority of tr other park restaurants..."nothing to see here"

As far as merch...only the occasional interesting thing...the kids pick one thing or so...so we aren't lighting the lamp by any means...

That's THEY'RE fault. Only largely generic crap these days...wasn't alway the case.

The best example is days of christmas...what a shell of its former unique self. (I hope they doze it or get back to putting something in it when the construction rolls through)

Other than that...I do enjoy the bars...really only on vacation... Rarely anywhere else. It's a nice diversion if not always consumption based.

That's me...
Do I spend more or less than years ago?

The answer is less...but I don't budget at all. There is just less to spend money on. That is a decline in good quality food and merchandise diversity...

I may have mentioned that " once or twice" around here before

 

[jtwibih]

I am right there with you on the merch spend. I spend less now because the same stuff has been in the shops for quite a while. It's a bummer to be honest. The lack of variety and creativity is baffling. The first 5 years or so we went, we would really have to watch the budget for all the choices we were offered. Now it's the same thing year after year. A couple years ago I thought they were headed back in the right direction when they released all of the Walt merch. It was a small diversion and not the sign of good things to come.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I have a question regarding the conversion of existing rooms to DVC. At the Polynesian, they have simply converted existing rooms into DVC studios- according to Tikiman, none of the rooms will have a full kitchen. Aside from the over the water bungalows, of course. Is a DVC studio at a resort which was specifically built for DVC like WL or the existing BC larger than a normal hotel room, or is the layout the same?

Just wondering if they'll be charging the same amount of money for a hotel room that's simply been converted. Dumb question. Of course they will.

Another question- are they having a tough time filling deluxe simply because of price? If so, do they really need to be charging $500 a night at the GF to make money? If they lowered the room rates a bit, would that help? And I mean lower them so they are more along the lines of what the Waldorf is charging, i.e. under $300 per night. Usually.

Excellent questions...

The reality is that DVC studios are marginally larger than standard hotel rooms... And try have an extra sink, micro fridge, and microwave...

The " kitchenette" term is a bit deceiving...because its nowhere near a "functional kitchen"

The deluxe problem is FASCINATING to me...as its still somewhat emerging...

Do I...personally...feel that the price is the problem?
Absolutely...they may have overbuilt/drawn the deluxe crowd away from rack with DVC sales...no doubt.

But it doesn't take a degree from Wharton to figure out that if the inventory is high, you lower the price to raise the demand to meet the Inventory...

That is basic microeconomics...is it not?

Wilderness lodge is telling...
It's beautiful and ages well... Good location and services...
If they can't sell it...and are converting to more timeshare as rumored...it's 100% due to price. No doubt in my mind.

The arc of price Increase since 2000...when taking into account what has gone on outside the pearly gates in that time... Has gone rogue.

So either they are addressing the fallout of their own lack of perception...or perhaps it's a little bit of an "occupancy" shell game and they see another opportunity to shed costs and increase predictability and will make up any "issue" to get to that "conclusion"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This has turned into a fascinating thread!

@lockedoutlogic

We are planning an 8-9 night stay for early June next year. Which resorts would you recommend? I love your insights and we want to stay on-site. Off-site is something we just aren't interested in, tbh.

The brief rundown?

The only on sites I would recommend if paying out if pocket now are:

Port Orleans, yacht/ beach, pop, all star movies, and animal kingdom lodge

Art of animation is another...but the price is a bit off... In my opinion. Close, not quite.

 

[rteetz]

Excellent questions... The reality is that DVC studios are marginally larger than standard hotel rooms... And try have an extra sink, micro fridge, and microwave... The " kitchenette" term is a bit deceiving...because its nowhere near a "functional kitchen" The deluxe problem is FASCINATING to me...as its still somewhat emerging... Do I...personally...feel that the price is the problem? Absolutely...they may have overbuilt/drawn the deluxe crowd away from rack with DVC sales...no doubt. But it doesn't take a degree from Wharton to figure out that if the inventory is high, you lower the price to raise the demand to meet the Inventory... That is basic microeconomics...is it not? Wilderness lodge is telling... It's beautiful and ages well... Good location and services... If they can't sell it...and are converting to more timeshare as rumored...it's 100% due to price. No doubt in my mind. The arc of price Increase since 2000...when taking into account what has gone on outside the pearly gates in that time... Has gone rogue. So either they are addressing the fallout of their own lack of perception...or perhaps it's a little bit of an "occupancy" shell game and they see another opportunity to shed costs and increase predictability and will make up any "issue" to get to that "conclusion"

Price is a huge issue when it comes to Disney resorts. People pay these prices because the disney name is next to it and disney knows it. Disney gets away with charging 500+ a night for rooms because people still pay for it. The conversion is because disney can't fill an entire resort on those prices but maybe 70% of it. I have no actual numbers I, just estimating based off what I've heard and seen. The poly bungalows are supposedly going to cost around 1000 a night if not more according to tikiman. I don't know about you but I'd never pay that much for a room. Disney resorts off property often offer a lot of deluxe amenities for a moderate prices sometimes even less. I like to look at the swan and dolphin as a perfect example. Both hotels are on disney property but are not owned by disney. They have all the disney transportation except for magical express. The hotels are within walking distance of Epcot and a boat ride to DHS. I could book seven days at the dolphin for a family of five for a bit less than Port Orleans Riverside. Both the swan an dolphin have deluxe amenities when it comes to pools, location, and dining. Only downside to these hotels is, they are convention hotels and the one time we stayed there we were surrounded by it that turned us away. Both are still great resorts. Disney is going to keep these prices until people stop buying them at those rates and that doesn't look like its happening any time soon. It's the same with park tickets. People complain and complain that those prices go up every year but everyone still buys them and the parks still see millions.

 

[Planogirl]

The brief rundown?

The only on sites I would recommend if paying out if pocket now are:

Port Orleans, yacht/ beach, pop, all star movies, and animal kingdom lodge

Art of animation is another...but the price is a bit off... In my opinion. Close, not quite.

I like your list except for All Star Movies. We had a miserable time there.

Is the Wilderness Lodge really having so much trouble filling rooms? I had the idea that it was pretty popular.

 

[clsteve]

Another question- are they having a tough time filling deluxe simply because of price? If so, do they really need to be charging $500 a night at the GF to make money? If they lowered the room rates a bit, would that help? And I mean lower them so they are more along the lines of what the Waldorf is charging, i.e. under $300 per night. Usually.

Excellent questions...

The deluxe problem is FASCINATING to me...as its still somewhat emerging...

Do I...personally...feel that the price is the problem?
Absolutely...they may have overbuilt/drawn the deluxe crowd away from rack with DVC sales...no doubt.

But it doesn't take a degree from Wharton to figure out that if the inventory is high, you lower the price to raise the demand to meet the Inventory...

That is basic microeconomics...is it not?

The fact they haven't lowered price to up demand and occ rate is the real telling thing here. They also don't have a minimum stay requirement. Resort properties will often lower price but up the minimum stay requirement to "make up" the difference in avg per guest spend with the additional days.

It makes you think that they don't want to lower price on Deluxe to the point that the big spenders or whales are either pushed out by demand or don't see the Deluxe's as "elite".

When you figure in that it's common in the Resort Industry that one half to two thirds of the average guest spend comes from just a quarter (or less) of their rooms - their highest priced rooms - that may play a big part in this.

And if they're having or anticipating continued Length of Stay issues - those 2,3, even 4 night stays kill you on the Displacement Index. With no minimum stay requirements, it's next to impossible to get maximum occupancy with that.

Better to get them off the inventory grid, sell them up to maximum occupancy, get longer stays as DVC, and then keep a smaller inventory of "Deluxe" for the big spenders so you don't have to lower the room rate.

 

[tjkraz]

Do I spend more or less than years ago?

The answer is less...but I don't budget at all. There is just less to spend money on. That is a decline in good quality food and merchandise diversity...

I may have mentioned that " once or twice" around here before

That's basically the rub, though. Aside from newer DVC owners, we're talking about people who typically spend at least one week per year (some 2 weeks, 3 weeks, etc) at Disney resorts. This audience is the one most likely to see all of the deficiencies in dining, merchandise and even the theme parks.

Meanwhile, the people who have never been to WDW...or are making their first visit in many years...are the group most likely to spend like drunken sailors on shore leave.

I agree with a prior poster--it's quite difficult to reconcile one's own spending habits with the masses. Forget economic status of the two groups--for this argument I'll gladly concede that DVC owners are likely in the same tax bracket as those occupying the thousands of Deluxe hotel rooms each night.

That said, seems common sense that people who have averaged a WDW trip every 6-12 months for 10 years aren't going to spend as freely as someone who hasn't been in 5 years. (And that's not even factoring in hotel revenues where 50 years of cash stays will cost several times that initial DVC buy-in.)

 

[jtwibih]

Quick semi off topic questions to lockedoutogic and tjkraz.....

What do you use to calculate increases in ticket prices, annual dues, and DP year over year for your DVC stays? Disney announces that you can break even in 5 years. That tells me nothing because I don't know if they factor in tickets, etc. If you want to PM me so that the thread stays on topic, that's fine.

 

[rteetz]

I like your list except for All Star Movies. We had a miserable time there.

Is the Wilderness Lodge really having so much trouble filling rooms? I had the idea that it was pretty popular.

Wilderness lodge fills rooms just not all of them and disney doesn't like that. This isn't the only deluxe resort having the same problem. Disney wants 90% occupancy or more and if its only seeing 70-80% then thats not good enough. Thats just a guess I have no actual numbers.

 

[Reddog1134]

Wilderness lodge fills rooms just not all of them and disney doesn't like that. This isn't the only deluxe resort having the same problem. Disney wants 90% occupancy or more and if its only seeing 70-80% then thats not good enough. Thats just a guess I have no actual numbers.

I believe someone over on WDWMagic (might have been Spirit) said occupancy at WL was really low. Something like 50-60%.

 

[Planogirl]

I believe someone over on WDWMagic (might have been Spirit) said occupancy at WL was really low. Something like 50-60%.

Wow! That is low for any hotel.

 

[Reddog1134]

Wow! That is low for any hotel.

I just found a post over there that said during a peak week this year, they reached 79% occupancy.

 

[rteetz]

I just found a post over there that said during a peak week this year, they reached 79% occupancy.

Thats really surprising. Wilderness lodge also tends to be one of the lower priced deludes as well. Spirit said that most of the conversions would be on club level rooms. I've never stayed at WL always have wanted to but like others have said Deluxe prices at Disney are just too high.

 

[Ajax]

Just wanted to say that the posts on this thread have been some of the most articulate and informative that I've read on any WDW board. Kudos to all the participants!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I like your list except for All Star Movies. We had a miserable time there.

Is the Wilderness Lodge really having so much trouble filling rooms? I had the idea that it was pretty popular.

I only picked movies because its a fun theme and is the newest of the all stars... Though I'm guessing they're all pretty long in the tooth now

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wilderness lodge fills rooms just not all of them and disney doesn't like that. This isn't the only deluxe resort having the same problem. Disney wants 90% occupancy or more and if its only seeing 70-80% then thats not good enough. Thats just a guess I have no actual numbers.

Right...and converting rooms to DVC...in locations such as wilderness, beach, possible more at contemporary, poly, grand, and ak down the road...fills rooms with guaranteed customers while squeezing the "deluxe" clientele into what's left...driving occupancy up.

Really does make perfect sense...if you can put the "stink" of it aside. (If its not to your liking)