WDW and DL Pirates to change Redhead scene

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Will I avoid the ride, no
Miss the scene, not really
Be happy with the change, no... I think it's ridiculous to remove it as its part of the rides' history/story line and pirate history.
Removing History is not the way society learns and moves forward. If it was a point of contention for a family ( as an example) .. it is an opportunity to teach a lesson if one feels the need.

Exactly. I can't imagine anyone riding that ride and getting from it, that it is okay to sell people. In fact, I would imagine that most Americans would agree that selling human beings is totally and completely wrong.

I think it goes over many heads during the ride and altogether forgotten in seconds.
(And for the record, no I think any form of slavery etc is despicable and wrong, just say'n)

I agree. People aren't looking at that scene and thinking, Wow, I think I would go to a human auction tonight. Boy, that sounds like fun. And if that is true, that people aren't thinking that, then is the scene really promoting human trafficking? I would think not.

I really don't care if they change it. It isn't a "don't miss" ride for us. In fact, I only watch about half of it. Most of the time I am leaning on my husband, resting. I like that it is cool and I can sit down.

 

[Pete M]

what if, and I'm just spit-balling here, but what if the change has nothing to do with human trafficking or political correctness. what if Disney just figures they have a cool idea to bring a female pirate character into the ride so they can sell more merch.

 

[cdnusagurl]

I made that comment because someone said in order to stop history from repeating itself we need to learn about history. I was merely pointing out that in order to learn from our past mistakes there needs to be a discussion not simply laughing at it in a ride. Also the fact is it isn't even a history it's a current event discussion. You don't want to teach your kids about sex trafficking fine but don't act like it being on a ride then is going to stop it from happening in the future. (Not saying you said this it was a comment someone else made)

I'm sorry but what does a ride have to do with what I will and won't teach my children? Also for the record, I'm childless but thanks for making the assumption that I'm a wayward parent determined to raise ignorant children.

 

[OrigamiPrayers]

I think a lot of people are defensive here out of nostalgia, love of Walt, and those who have seen the effects of this scene apply to real life. And I think that for the most part, everyone has promoted excellent commentary and tried to respect each other's opinion.

My thoughts are that the problem isn't that the scene is good or bad...it's that we don't know how to see the pirates. Before the films, they were straight up villians, but now Jack is a hero as are most pirates. The narrative has changed, as most do over time.

I love this scene as a classic Disney fan, but I also see why it is wrong. My solution is not to remove it, but to create a new narrative that instead reminds audience members why it is wrong.

Keep the scene as it is but add towards the back of the line of women Captain Jack starting to free them. Then the scene is still as the classic fans like it, but for those young and impressionable they see the good pirate that they admire and emulate doing the right thing.

As much as some people are complaining here, I actually am glad so many people of varying opinions are discussing things like adults. It's all right to be defensive and upset about things that mean so much to us such as women's rights and a ride from our childhood.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Eh..perhaps in your opinion but with all due respect I don't agree.

Maybe living here you might understand more of what I'm saying especially living on the border between the two states. And the thing with the confederate flag is there isn't a universal opinion on the meaning behind it. It would be unfair to press upon someone that the only meaning behind something that hasn't a clear meaning is what you believe it to mean. That is why the confederate flag isn't an accurate comparison.

Wait...how is there not a Universal understanding of the symbolism? I am genuinely confused here. It's a symbol of the old south, which seceded from Union over slavery. I mean, many people argue that it was over property rights, but the property that the south was talking about happened to be human beings. And even after the war, when the south was still arguing about state rights- the rights they wanted usually were things like the right to not prosecute lynchings, or the right to bar their black citizens from political activities.

I can look at that flag and think country music or Dukes of Hazard but I can't ignore the historical context of it. There is no way to overlook that association. There's a reason people protest it's display, and there's a reason that New Orleans removed its confederate hero statues. It's an ugly symbol of an extremely ugly chapter of US history.

It would be like arguing that that the swastika isn't associated with Nazi Germany. That it can have a totally different meaning. It existed before Hitler. It didn't have the same connotation. But there's no way that a modern person could look at it and not associate it with the Nazi regime.

 

[Westcoastwild]

You know, the funny thing is, that I'm not even sure I would notice the change if I hadn't read about it here. I might think something seems different but I don't get that attached to details on rides.

I think Disney may be doing it because slave trafficking is a red hot topic right now. It's not about being politically correct- it's good PR and it's just a sound business decision to update it. There have been a lot of mentions of Splash in this thread- even when they were building that, they made specific decisions to disassociate it from the song of the south for PR reasons.

I'm a lot more upset about the inclusion of Barbossa. Why??

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Wait...how is there not a Universal understanding of the symbolism? I am genuinely confused here. It's a symbol of the old south, which seceded from Union over slavery. I mean, many people argue that it was over property rights, but the property that the south was talking about happened to be human beings. And even after the war, when the south was still arguing about state rights- the rights they wanted usually were things like the right to not prosecute lynchings, or the right to bar their black citizens from political activities.

I can look at that flag and think country music or Dukes of Hazard but I can't ignore the historical context of it. There is no way to overlook that association. There's a reason people protest it's display, and there's a reason that New Orleans removed its confederate hero statues. It's an ugly symbol of an extremely ugly chapter of US history.

It would be like arguing that that the swastika isn't associated with Nazi Germany. That it can have a totally different meaning. It existed before Hitler. It didn't have the same connotation. But there's no way that a modern person could look at it and not associate it with the Nazi regime.

Because there isn't one definition for the confederate flag and what it stands for. To some the symbol means one thing and to others it means something else.

As for removing displays quite honestly social pressure, which can create mob mentality quite easily, can do wonders but it can also be very dangerous. That goes for many things in recent times.

I'm sure you understand that I wasn't saying that some people don't define the Confederate flag as a symbol of slavery but rather that not everyone does-thus the whole "there's no universal definition of it".

I understand your viewpoint on the symbol itself but I'm going to respect others who don't share that viewpoint. That's probably about as much as we can say on the subject considering it can stray easily into no-no land on Confederate Flag topic of what it means or doesn't mean.

 

[Silock]

Eh..perhaps in your opinion but with all due respect I don't agree.

Maybe living here you might understand more of what I'm saying especially living on the border between the two states. And the thing with the confederate flag is there isn't a universal opinion on the meaning behind it. It would be unfair to press upon someone that the only meaning behind something that hasn't a clear meaning is what you believe it to mean. That is why the confederate flag isn't an accurate comparison.

I think something more accurate would be that a person wearing a "Quantril's Raid" shirt could be construed as either anti-Kansas or pro-slavery. Or both. But, it's not immediately clear which it is based upon the words on the shirt.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think something more accurate would be that a person wearing a "Quantril's Raid" shirt could be construed as either anti-Kansas or pro-slavery. Or both. But, it's not immediately clear which it is based upon the words on the shirt.

Perhap but when thinking about the other poster's logic hopefully you understand why I mentioned a vague thing such as wearing a shirt that has a State's name on it. That should be more clear hopefully when you read how they would react if someone told them that the shirt they wore of their state meant something else and that they would then take a step back and look at themselves as they don't want to be perceived as someone who supported what that other person said their shirt of their state represented.

 

[Planogirl]

If evil people can use a symbol to represent themselves then why can't good people take it back? Maybe with time.

That is way OT though. I still don't like this change because it harms something created by Walt and won't make a difference to those who suffer. And I hate the suffering.

 

[Mouse of Mystery]

I'm sorry... but Pirates of the Caribbean is a STORY that happens to be conveyed through a ride. It is art.

Since when are we okay with censoring art because it makes us uncomfortable? Art is supposed to challenge you and make you think. The entire ride is a farce... we all know pirates are bad. Bad pirates do bad things.

Oh, and by the way, the story has a happy ending. The bad pirates are in jail and the good pirate is rich.

I'm sure there is a laundry-list of questions that a child can come away with from experiencing such a story and that is what mommies and daddies are for. We should be celebrating an attraction that entertains and sparks family conversation, not sanitizing it to try and remove any and everything that offends.

It is remarkable that there are people who cannot separate fantasy from reality.

 

[Lee Matthews]

Personally this is being totally blown out of proportion.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I told my wife, more than 10 years ago, that this scene would eventually be removed. People have personal agendas, and eventually those agendas win out over common sense. We call it political correctness, but it really is not. It is one group of people deciding what is right or wrong for everyone else, and enforcing that through censorship.

Let's get this straight - PoTC is art. This is censorship. Censorship is bad, and we are harmed by its presence.

No matter how you or I feel about that scene, we have no right to even suggest that it be removed. We have a right to discuss the scene, or to skip the ride, but we have no right to expect it to be changed. The very thought that we do have this right is what leads to censorship and all of the evil that accompanies it.

ETA - It should be noted, however, that Disney has a right to change their art in whatever way they believe best suits their interests. So, in this case we see self-censorship. I really have no problem with them changing it. I just hate to see the discussion around the "need" to censor it. There was no need.

 

[LSLS]

So couple things on this. First, it honestly doesn't bother me one way or the other. That said, saying that removing this scene is somehow hiding the idea of human trafficking and ignoring history is ridiculous. For that point to be correct, people need to walk out of that scene genuinely upset and curious to learn a great deal more about the issue. I would venture a guess that you can count on one hand the number of times that has happened.

I have never really worried about taking my child through pirates. I worry much more taking my daughter to Haunted Mansion with the guy hanging from above. I will play dumb on this one, as I never imagined this as a slave auction. I always imagined it was something similar to like the charity auctions where people willingly sign up. Guess I always imagined women pirates would sign up for something like that, but that also probably shows what time/area of life I come from.

Lastly, was there actual outcry for this? I have never heard anyone really upset about it. I do see some people are glad to see it go, but I haven't heard the PC police all over this scene before. Anyways, will be interesting to see if/when the real story behind the change comes out.

 

[Laz]

So do they change the scene in Peter Pan with Wendy walking the plank?

 

[adelaster]

This thread like:

“I was talking to a friend recently and I told him that I didn’t think I believed in the death penalty. And my friend said to me, ‘Oh, so you’re telling me that if you saw Hitler walking down the street you wouldn’t kill him?’

That wasn’t what I was telling you. But all right. Let’s talk about this… entirely new topic.” -John Mulaney, New in Town

 

[bbmassey]

It's probably best just to demolish the ride and establish a memorial garden in the memory of the anamatronic women who were held hostage for over 50 years at a pirate auction. Also, we need to remove Dumbo and establish a memorial garden in memory of the elephants that were held captive by the carnival for so long. Same at the Haunted Mansion as it encourages suicide in the stretching room and murder in the atic. Maybe one day soon we will have a memorial garden in front of the remains of each Disney park to commorate what used to be before Iger ran them into the ground with bad IP and PC decisions.

 

[dreiwhit]

All I can say is that this change is STUPID! Leave PotC alone!

IMO people need to stop worrying so much about political correctedness. This is technically something that happened in history. Trying to cover it up isn't good.

Well said!

 

[speedyfishy]

People are really getting worked up they can't laugh at a sex trafficking scene any more. I didn't like the scene in the attraction I still rode it and enjoyed it, but I think Disney making this change is for the best. No PC committee was begging Disney to change the attraction Disney decided that on their own. You don't like it don't ride or go to Disney. I didn't think other scenes in rides were particularly offensive. As I got older I was also shocked that Disney had this scene in their attractions and I didn't really have that shock for any other rides. I don't know why. But to claim this ride should be kept for historical purposes and that it's a lesson in history is just ridiculous. The ride isn't educating anyone. My comment about discussing this with your children was a rhetorical question meant to prove in fact no one (maybe very few people) have an educated discussion about the sex trafficking still occurring in today's world. Again, by many people even claiming this is something we need to learn from because it happened in the past just shows people do not even realize that this is still happening. I'm fine with art depicting offensive things, this ride is not merely art it is supposed to be a funny scene and I don't see the humor in it.

 

[merry_nbright]

It's probably best just to demolish the ride and establish a memorial garden in the memory of the anamatronic women who were held hostage for over 50 years at a pirate auction. Also, we need to remove Dumbo and establish a memorial garden in memory of the elephants that were held captive by the carnival for so long. Same at the Haunted Mansion as it encourages suicide in the stretching room and murder in the atic. Maybe one day soon we will have a memorial garden in front of the remains of each Disney park to commorate what used to be before Iger ran them into the ground with bad IP and PC decisions.